Uncle Dave
The SRAM Marketing Machine
As I was reading through the 100+ comments that you had at the bottom of Andrew’s piece about Buttercups, I drew a conclusion. That conclusion is that people have a lot to say about some little rubber pucks at the base of a fork. Maybe that’s more of a statement than a conclusion. Regardless, you people had more than 100 comments on an article about rubber isolation mounts! That seems crazy. I started to wonder how we got to a point where people cared so deeply about something so minor.
Your feelings are not limited to the bottom of Andrew’s article, either. People want ButterCups! People demand buttercups! To the point where we’re casting aside perfectly good forks in search of (potentially) oh-so-slightly better forks. Which is something not all that unusual in the world of mountain biking, but this time around it felt a little bit extreme. We Are One launched their 170 Arrival with MY2022 RockShox and people wrote it off! “What the hell WAO I want ButterCups!” I did it myself in the GG Gnarvana First Look! What the fuck?
Or course, the latest RockShox product is more than just ButterCups. There’s a new damper, more bushing overlap, etc. etc. Somehow though, those little ButterCups, and that tiny little decal way down at the bottom of the fork, have attracted all of our attention. How did that happen?
Well, it happened because SRAM is really fucking good at marketing.
I say that, and I’ll bet some of you are reading that as a disparagement. Like there’s some unsaid “because their product sure needs it!” But this is not a commentary on the quality on the product. This is just some guy, sitting home alone in his underwear, recognizing a company at the top of their game.
Think back to product launches over the last few years and try to remember the ones that really shifted perspective. I can think of three, all SRAM. Transmission, Buttercup equipped forks and the new batch of Rock Shox rear shocks. All three got people salivating over the new product and, in my mind, nothing else came close to convincing people that they immediately needed to buy new product, and that the stuff currently hanging off their bike is shit. I want to unravel why I think that happened, by looking at a few ways that SRAM does this so well.
BlackBox
It all starts with BlackBox. What is it? What does it do? Beats the fuck out of any of us, really. SRAM says that they "launched the BlackBox program in 2001 to create and test the most cutting-edge technology at the world’s biggest races." This very well could be true. Some Blackbox products are obviously different. Take the new Boxxer, visible in Blackbox form for the last couple of years. This was obviously a totally new product, completely different from the one that we could purchase. But it’s also possible that some of that “Blackbox” stuff is just some random, sticker happy SRAM employee who got a hot deal on some decals and now he sneaks around at night slapping them onto various products before they get installed on bikes that belong to SRAM sponsored racers. Most of the time, we have no way to know what is actually going on inside.
What we do know though, is that by not knowing, we're on the outside of an exclusive club. Being humans, we can only imagine that because it’s exclusive, it must be better. Sitting inside that Blackbox clad thingamabobber might be some exciting new internals, custom machined to the exacting specifications of a certain pro. Or it might just be the exact same bullshit that we just bought from the store with too many of our own dollars. It doesn't matter! We want that shit. We NEED that shit. And SRAM knows it. They know that with that little decal, somebody is going to take a photo of it and start speculating about it on the Vital forum. They know that Pinkbike is going to then run with it and turn it into a spy shot article. A few cents spent and the frothing over what SRAM is up to begins. That carries on through to the launch date when all the beans get spilled and the hype hits full steam.
To test the effectiveness of Blackbox, pay your local print shop for a small run of Blackbox decals. Apply them liberally to your fork and/or shock, drive up to Whistler and time how long it takes for somebody to walk by, double take and ask you about your internals. I'll bet it's less than an twenty minutes. To take things even further, try to sell that shit on the Internet, coyly dodge questions about what you're selling and where it came from, and tack a few hundred dollars to your asking price. Bet that shit sells quick.
The Department of Cleverly Naming Shit
I don’t know if this department actually exists, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it does. ButterCup. TouchDown. DebonAir+. MatchMaker. X-Sync. Bleeding Edge. SwingLink. On and on and on it goes. Mash a couple of words together that allude to technological glory, add in some weird capitalization and call it a day. These guys love their clever names! Shimano can’t keep up with that! You think there’s a world where SRAM names something Linkglide? I mean…maybe. It seems like they could do better. Fox for sure can’t keep up with this shit. Kabolt? Naw, dawg. Maxle! Lower leg bleeders? I can’t even believe RockShox isn’t calling their version EpicRelease or some shit. Variable Valve Control? How about some RampedUp? If these terrible attempts don’t convince you that these guys are good at this shit, nothing will.
You can’t just name it though. You have to let people know about it! You gotta make that shit exclusive! You need a strategically placed decal that lets people know you’re rockin’ the real shit! How do we know that 2022 Zeb sucks so bad? No buttercup decal on the fork. NO FUCKING BUTTERCUP DECAL ON THE FORK, NO SALE! Holy shit! What the fuck does it do and why do I need it? Doesn’t matter! It’s “this one goes to 11” playing out in real life!
To put it another way, when Fox rolls out their version of ButterCups, nobody is going to care too much about the paragraph where they tout their new foot-mounted rubber isolation bushings.
Content is King
So there's more to it than just a super public prototype testing program and some clever names. The next step is the content. I’m almost ashamed to admit that SRAM does a better job of creating content than most of us content creators.
To start with, SRAM also does a really, really good job of explaining their technical features in a simple, clear and concise way. For the perfect example, have a look at this page highlighting the development of the new Vivid shock. The explanation of the three phases of damping and how they use some simple animations to show how they work and how that might apply to your riding is so clean and clear, it's breathtaking. For a counterpoint, have a look at this page where Fox explains their Grip 2 damper. Sure, all the information is there, but you also want to hurl an object at the wall once you’re finished trying to decipher what they’re saying.
They’ve also been doing a good job on their non-technical marketing content. This little 25 second ad for the new Vivid shock starring Jesse Melamed is perfect. The riding is insanely fast, but still somewhat approachable. You get pumped to ride and there’s a suggestion that you could approach those feelings yourself. What makes it though is the confidence to have Jesse undersell the shit out of it with a cheeky grin and a couple of nods of the head. No over-pumped soundtrack. No narrator talking about the next best thing. Beautiful. This one too.
As an aside, SRAM also does a great job on their non-marketing related technical documents. For brakes, check out these videos and manuals that highlight how to bed in or fully service your brakes. If you want to tear your SRAM product apart, chances are very, very good that you will be able to find multiple sources (written and video) explaining the process. Yes, other companies do a good job of this as well, but SRAM is almost always on point.
What does this mean for us?
Honestly? This means nothing for us. Even if we know that SRAM is really, really good at convincing us that we need what they’re selling, they’ve still convinced us that we need what they’re selling. Even if we’re justifying that we don’t need Transmission because we don’t like batteries and we prefer our old school derailleur hangers, we’re still justifying that we don’t need Transmission. Even if we’re not sure that a couple of mm of rubber isolation mount is going to help us all that much while we’re riding our bike, we would still prefer it if our fork had that little decal. We’re really bad at knowing what we actually do need, and we easily accept that we might need something else if it’s packaged up all nice and tight and shit.
So, again, no disparagement on SRAM. In a few simple steps, they do a better job of selling shit to us than anybody else in the bike industry. I like much of their product, just as I like much of what Shimano is doing. But when it comes to convincing us that we need to throw our old shit in the trash and climb all over one another to get the new stuff, nobody does it better.
Uncle Dave’s Music Club
It’s been a while since I’ve talked about Fugazi.
At one point, I felt like one could only consider Fugazi by their albums, and not just their songs. Mix tape? Fuck you, no. You either sit down and listen to that whole album, or you don’t listen at all. I’m a bit less precious than that, now. A bit. So, perhaps not exactly on point, but this feels fitting for our conversation today. You better believe there isn’t a video to go along with this song.
Comments
trumpstinyhands
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Can you imagine a world where people look after their stuff to maintain its performance level, rather that letting the performance drop off and then buying a new product, which shock-horror then feels better?!
Reply
Mark
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Unfortunately, no.
There are of course products that fail miserably due to design/manufacturing flaws, but those seem to be minor. The other thing that bewilders me is how products that work well at a good price point get ignored because they're not from the preferred brand or aren't seen as "cool".
Reply
Cam McRae
9 months, 2 weeks ago
While I hope we avoid that pitfall better than most, I'm sure we are often guilty of that Mark.
Can you give us some examples you think would be worthy of our attention that we may have missed? Thanks!
Reply
Vincent Edwards
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I think NSMB does avoid this pitfall better than most publications.
Andrew in particular puts time in to review ‘budget’ parts and evaluate the long-term value of bikes and components. The whole Min-Max thing is brilliant… keep up the good work.
Reply
Mark
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Hey Cam, I wasn't thinking about NSMB when I typed that out, more the mtb community as a whole. You all do a good job of talking about lower cost products that work well, and Andrew's min-max philosophy is spot on with how I aim to do things. I can't think of anything you've missed really, but maybe an annual article on service for the home mechanic that quickly runs through standard stuff and then talks about anything new and why it might be better would be well received? I know Andrew did one kind of like that a number of years ago, but imo it would be good to run it on a yearly basis.
Of course this all comes from someone runing 10spd or less on their bikes, including, gasp, 2x9 on the trail/xc bike. I have a penchant for stuff that works well at a decent price and tend to ignore high priced bling.
There's more performance to be gained by improving the rider than improving the ride.
Reply
Luix
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Novatec hubs are The Right Stuff™ _for 99% of the people out there. But nobody wants to be seen riding anything not DT. And may $DEITY forgive them if they cave in to 350s, because everyone knows True Mountain Bikers™_ build their wheels with 240s
*Just to go along with the Buzzwords Bingo Uncle Dave pictured in this piece.
Reply
Cr4w
9 months, 2 weeks ago
To me the SRAM stuff always struck me as kind of pedestrian with a lot of shininess added to make it seem better than it is. During the depths of the Shimano brake unreliability a few years ago I got some Code RSCs which have been amazing but my new bike has 2022 XT brakes which I like much better and have performed flawlessly. I think it's funny that people see Shimano as somehow not keeping up because they didn't rush to giant cassettes (which I still don't really need) or wireless shifting (which I still don't want).
On the non-drivetrain side I've had Reverbs and they were super needy compared to the Bikeyoke Revives I have (one of which hasn't been serviced in 6 years) - I couldn't get rid of those Reverbs fast enough. I currently have a Super Deluxe Ultimate coil that could best be described as functional. But yeah, sign me up for more batteries, $900 derailleurs and $700 oil slick cassettes.
I recognize that Shimano makes stuff I use and need while SRAM is making stuff that's just so much marketing-driven shiny want.
Reply
hotlapz
9 months, 2 weeks ago
What don't you like about the Super Deluxe Ultimate coil?
Reply
Cr4w
9 months, 2 weeks ago
So far, nothing. I think it's the kind of nothing that will be best described by how much better I find its replacement, which has been true of all the SRAM products in my life.
Reply
Allen Lloyd
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I remember pointing and laughing at people using grip shift. Then Sram came out with a 1:1 shifter that just worked I became a fan. Then over time they kept degrading the quality and increasing the price. Oddly I am really intrigued by the "transmission" because I am tired of slightly tweaked hangers messing up shift performance. BUT what I really want is cable actuated, the whole charge the batteries feels like a total PITA. I struggle to remember to fill my water bottle having to charge batteries is going to be an issue.
On brakes I cannot for the life of my figure out why people use Sram brakes. They have sold modulation, but I have yet to ride a bike with their brakes that had enough stopping power. Hayes and TRP make strong brakes with modulation. Shimano makes brakes with power somewhere in the lever travel. Sram give you a mushy feeling lever that never slows you down enough.
Reply
Cr4w
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I think the Lal Supre Drive does a better job of solving these issues than Transmission but that will remain a niche product for a while yet. At least the move to standardize via UDH is a good thing even if you never switch to Transmission.
Reply
Andy Eunson
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Sometimes modulation is simply a lack of grip by the pads on the rotor. A lot of modulation is in the rider’s finger though. It is partly skill and partly brake design. And one can adapt to different modulation but you cannot adapt tp weak brakes. I’ve gone from Shimano to SRAM and back a number of times. Both needed to be bled a similar number of times a season. It is a subtle but I prefer the feel of Shimano’s fast bite. I also figured the SRAM’s bite point adjuster had more range so you could avoid a bleed by adjusting bite point. But I learned about having lots of modulation 40 years ago riding rim brakes. We have come a long long way.
But yeah. Put on your marketing filter, turn on the bullshit detector when reading about new stuff. If the hype for something seems too good to be true, it’s probably not that much better. Like "transmission ". Ooooo you can shift under power whereas with mechanical you can only shift. Under…..power. But but it doesn’t go zzzzzt when you shift! Oooo GAME CHANGER. zzzzt.
Reply
Onawalk
9 months, 2 weeks ago
uhh, we all use brakes differently. I think its why some experience lever fade issues with Shimano, and some have never experienced it.
I can set my Codes up much closer to the bar than others, and have never felt like they were under powered. I'm a heavy guy, and ride with a reckless abandon that would make you assume someone else is paying for my parts...
I also have XT brakes on my other bike, and these seem to work well. The SLX's on my wife, are hot garbage, and drive me nuts. She doesnt seem to notice, or care in the slightest....
Reply
Cr4w
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I thought that inconsistency was due to manufacturing variances which would explain why some are great and some are not?
Reply
Onawalk
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Could be as well,
However, from my experience, after testing the theory out, on any Shimano brake equipped bike I can get a hold of, my theory still stands (for me anyway)
I find that people who trail brake more frequently, don’t seem to have the issue, or much at all. Those that are more on/off, can run into it.
Again, we all ride differently, on different trails, at different times. What works for you, might not work for me, and vice versa.
I cant find a brake that sets up as close to the bar as the Codes, and that suits my style just fine. I’ve never felt like I’ve run out of braking power with them
Reply
luke_sky
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I found out the hard way when I had a demo bike with Shimano brakes after years of Sram that I have a weird braking habit that exacerbates feeling the wandering bite point. Apparently I tend to pull hard, release and then pull again immediately, especially when endo-turning around tight hiking trail switchbacks. Had a few OTBs before getting used to having the bite point earlier from time to time.
lkubica
9 months, 2 weeks ago
100% agree. As for RS suspension, they have quirky designs that work ok, but most of their features does nothing really, apart of marketing bs (like this butter cups or supposedly separated hi/low speed compression in a monotube design). I had particularly bad luck with SDL Coil Ultimate and did some research about shock architectures. So for a long time valving on this shock was very digressive with built-in platform on rebound. This is really 100% RS - they made a shock with rebound circuit prone to packing, they added a counter-measure spring which really does nothing and then called it RAPID RECOVERY :) Anyway, they recently added so called "linear" damping tune with hot-dog pistons which may work much better (and I imagine that this is really their blackbox - damping that works for advanced riders). But on the other side they make great tuning guides for their shocks. So their suspension products are like:
- targeted towards newcomers and people who just ride and don't care much
- have lot's of catchy buzzword (this correlates with the targeted audience) which serves mostly marketing
- are friendly for tuning and service so advanced users can ultimately make them work OK, but honestly for the price of upgrades you could simply buy something else that works out of the box ...
Reply
Fat_Tony_NJ
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That Fugazi song always makes be pedal faster when it comes on.
As for SRAM, I LOVE when something like Buttercups come out, because that means that I can buy the previous model years Ultimate level fork at a big discount. Looking forward to trying Buttercups when SRAM releases their next new must-have fork improvement.
Reply
Cam McRae
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I am the same way with Apple laptops. I know, I know, they are overpriced and stupidly limiting - with no SD slot for example - but I'm locked in and they have been very durable and I use them for years. The M1 was great for my recent purchase of a two-year-old machine with more RAM and HD space and more than ample power for 1/3 the price of an M1 or now M2 chip.
Reply
BarryW
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Same here on watches, phones, laptops, tablets.
I'm way happier using fantastic tech that just happens to cost 1/3 the price of new and has 99% (or more) of the same functionality of the newest stuff.
Reply
Timer
9 months, 2 weeks ago
How many people are really buying aftermarket SRAM at anywhere near retail price? Their OEM pricing is dirt-cheap and high volume, which leads to lots of OEM product finding their way into the aftermarket at huge discounts. Lots of take-off forks available too.
And some of their product cycles are so short that things are on sale all the time.
It probably depends a lot on the local market, but around central Europe i don't see people lusting after SRAM despite their marketing. Its just what comes on the mid-range bikes as standard. Instead, Fox is able to sell at a huge premium in the aftermarket (for reasons unknown to me).
Reply
Mammal
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Apparently, I'm unaffected by any of this. Maybe it's because, historically, new-to-market bike products have been out of reach to me. Doesn't matter why, it makes me resoundingly happy that I'm not a marketing lemming.
Adding a hydraulic bottom out option to their rear shocks got a "huh, that's cool" out of me, but that's because I've been a fan of that concept from Manitou experiences. Aside from that, reactions include a whole lot of "meh".
Reply
PowellRiviera
9 months, 2 weeks ago
In the same boat. I’m such a parts dirtbag. Love old bikes, fixing up neglected brakes, figuring out not cool equipment (dvo beryl, seriously, what kind of name is that?) Part of the fun for me.
I get out lots and my bikes seem to function pretty well, I’m happy as hell anyways.
Reply
Maximum Radness
9 months, 2 weeks ago
You made me start the day with fugazi. For that I thank you.
Reply
fartymarty
9 months, 2 weeks ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNail6JjEiE&ab_channel=serpas86 would have fitted in quite nicely as well.
https://fugazi.bandcamp.com/
Reply
Andy Eunson
9 months, 2 weeks ago
At least SRAM didn’t name them bttrcps. I despise the modern thing of not using vowels. Like cnncllctv (or whatever team Jss Mlmd rides for).
I mean we all sort of expect, or should expect, manufacturers to embellish the attributes of their new gizmos. But we should also expect the cycling press to review those gizmos and give us the low down. Is it good bad or indifferent. I think NSMB mostly do. But other sites use terms like game changer which can have an opposite effect to people like me who are kind of sceptical after all these years. Droppers were one thing that was actually game changing. Despite the early droppers being largely crap they have become universal. Electronic shifting is good but hardly game changing. Disc brakes were game changing. Carbon frames not.
Reply
Pete Roggeman
9 months, 2 weeks ago
We very much look down on terms like game-changing. Agree with you that most things aren't and using buzzwords like that is lazy.
Droppers and disc brakes sure were, though!
Reply
Adrian Bostock
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Where shimano, and perhaps others fall apart, is they do a big release for say linkglide, and you literally can’t buy it from your LBS. They barely know what your are looking for and they can’t get it from their distributor. You would think shimano would time the release with the ability to purchase the product. and maybe LBS education.
Yes you can, and I have, bought it from an on line source. but I am pretty sure it’s still not available at the LBS.
Reply
Dave Tolnai
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I don't think Linkglide is more successful if it's in stock at stores. First off, I can't believe they call it Linkglide when they already have Hyperglide. Neither of those names tell me anything about what the product does and I don't really understand how they're different.
But the bigger problem is that I have no idea what it is, even a few months later. What's different? Why? Who is it for? You almost have to work to self identify as somebody that might benefit from this product. Like...if the whole point is that it's more durable and will work for e-bikes, why not Duraglide or something like that, if you insist on maintaining "*glide"? None of this should matter and the best product should rise to the top, but obviously it does matter. This is the first page from Shimano that comes up when I search for Linkglide. It is terrible.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/information/news/shimano-introduces-new-high-durability-linkglide-drivetrain-tech.html
Reply
Pete Roggeman
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Product naming is a whole other kettle of wax, and I agree that Linkglide isn't the best, but it does belong to a family of shift-related performance attributes, at least. What's Eagle AXS? The name certainly doesn't offer clues...Eagle=Freedom=freedom from front derailleurs? Hell, no.
As much as I agree with a lot of what you had to say about SRAM's marketing, they do a lot of unseen things very well also, including knowing how to hammer home their different techs and names and brands so that people remember them and know what they are.
That landing page isn't sexy, but that's Shimano for you. Did you check the date on it, though? Over two years ago, still can't get that stuff (edit: Andrew set me straight - you can)
Reply
Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment has been removed.
Dave Tolnai
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I wouldn't argue for Eagle being the best named thing SRAM has ever done. But at the same time, at least you know what it is. It's very consistent.
Reply
Adrian Bostock
9 months, 2 weeks ago
There is a bit of a saga on how I found my way into an M5100 11 speed drive train. I am only a few rides in, but it’s very shimano and the whole drive trail costs less than and eagle cassette. probably less that a replacement battery for your trans
Reply
Alex D
9 months, 2 weeks ago
To me, SRAM is like a high-brow restaurant. Yeah, they'll serve chicken fingers if you ask, but it'll be freezer garbage the chef had too much contempt to touch. Where Shimano revels in executing brilliantly to a price point (so much so that the more expensive stuff is often just lighter), SRAM wants you on a $2000 drivetrain and the rest of the lineup isn't worth talking about. If your shitty SX derailleur wobbles from the factory because the fixing bushing is made of cheese, sucks for you-- you should have bought X01.
But SRAM's best is the best. And since I have more money than time for this hobby, sometimes I'll spring for it. However, for bikes I refurbish with Deore-level kit, I won't come near them.
Reply
Cr4w
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Is it? You'd take a SRAM/RS Zeb or Super Deluxe over an Ohlins for nearly the same price? 100% no.
Or a Reverb over a Bikeyoke? Nope.
I wouldn't take any of the SRAM drivetrain stuff over XTR. Or Codes over Shimano, Hayes, TRP or Hope.
But I do appreciate them ushering in 1x drivetrains and UDH. And then another -1 for 28.99.
Reply
Onawalk
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Oh yeah, the RS stuff over Ohlins, all day long. It’s easy to set up, changes are easy, and noticeable, and it works, is reliable, and parts/service is a breeze. All day. And it’s cheaper, like much cheaper
Codes over Shimano, Hopes, Magura, TRP, you bet. As noted before, they are the only ones that set up close to the bar, work consistently, and service in a quick minute.
BikeYoke, while it works well, is a fair chunk of change more that a OneUp, so that’s out. But for the AXS minded, there’s really nothing else. It’ll also likely be the first to go both up and down with the click of a button, and that’s the dropper innovation I’d really like.
GX stuff is pretty bulletproof, and I prefer it over my Shimano XT, can’t much argue about the NX/SX stuff, but I don’t care too much, cause I just use GX.
Honestly, it seems like you’re more hell bent on not liking SRAM, than being objective at all.
Reply
Cr4w
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That's interesting. Goes to show different strokes for different folks. My SRAM experiences have been neutral at best and incredibly expensive for no good reason at worst. The higher end products exist in the price category where they should thrill and they don't seem capable of that.
edit. I had to think more about this. I think for brakes they're as good as anything else they are priced comparatively with, same with forks and shocks. It's the drivetrain stuff that bugs me. I bought two bikes in the last years and dumped the sram stuff right away because the mid quality stuff isn't great and selling it covered the cost of a new driver and conversion to XT, whose replacement cost is less than half the price of a comparable SRAM unit.
Reply
Jerry Willows
9 months, 2 weeks ago
the 2023 RS Suspension is really really good.
Reply
Alex D
9 months, 2 weeks ago
> I bought two bikes in the last years and dumped the sram stuff right away because the mid quality stuff isn't great and selling it covered the cost of a new driver and conversion to XT
That's my point. SRAM's low-tier drivetrains are bad, mid-tier is expensive and mediocre, and top-tier leaps to the front. I haven't ridden Transmission yet, but everything I've seen suggests there's nothing better for durability, shifting under load, actuation effort, and long-term tune, even in terrible conditions.
Reply
OldManBike
9 months, 2 weeks ago
While I broadly agree with Dave’s points here, it does seem strange to go on about SRAM’s marketing genius without ever mentioning Boost, the most widely and deeply hated mtb innovation of our times.
Reply
Cam McRae
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Hmmm. How about 28.99? There are lots of examples - from many companies - that could be included, but I don't think that was the thrust of Dave's article. By my reading Dave wasn't saying SRAM is trying to sell us things we don't need. That's not novel. Virtually every consumer-facing company does that constantly. He's saying that SRAM does it better than most companies in the bike business.
And didn't Trek push for Boost? And tapered steerers? And maybe even trunnion and metric? And Airwiz was introduced as a Trek exclusive, which suggests (but doesn't prove) some development partnership. New standards are often pulled by bike manufacturers rather tan pushed by component companies like SRAM, although Transmission is an exception to that, and one that actually has benefits for the greater riding community, most of whom won't end up on T-type.
I'm not sure I would agree that it's the most widely and deeply hated MTB innovation though. I think I'd go for 15mm through axles for forks with over 140mm travel. My slogan for that standard was, "they may be weaker, but they weigh just as much!" The weight calculation changes when you add in a heavier axle and bearings but are we talking more than 100 grams? I'm betting fewer. And I'm pretty sure Fox rolled that one in. I don't recall if Trek was involved, but I wouldn't doubt it.
Reply
OldManBike
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I’m sure you know better than I do, but I’d thought the move from 20 to 15 was part of Boost, or at least seen as part of Boost and thus part of the hate inferno over Boost. (Along with the move from 100 to 110, which I recall being seen as far less worthy of a new std than the move to 148 in back.)
Reply
Velocipedestrian
9 months, 2 weeks ago
100x15 replaced OG 20x110 (non boost), then was Boosted years later to 110x15 when 148 happened.
Reply
Cr4w
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I don't hate boost as much as I hate 15mm fork axles.
Reply
Onawalk
9 months, 2 weeks ago
What’s wrong with boost?
You have an issue with 110, and 148? They seem broadly accepted, by pretty well all manufacturers.
15mm front axles were prolly the one that baffles me the most, and I don’t think that was SRAM, but Fox rings a bell for that one.
Reply
Mammal
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Yep, Fox and OG Marzocchi are to blame for the 15mm nonsense.
Reply
Pete Roggeman
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I think of Boost as being a meme that represents the widespread resentment of unnecessary standards, but the irony is that Boost in and of itself unlocked a lot of innovation we now take for granted. It was introduced terribly, and of course you could argue they also messed up by not just going straight to 157, but that's a testament to a lack of conspiratorial (read: organized and cohesive) backroom movement, not the opposite. Whereas 15mm front axles were a step back in performance, Boost at least was done with innovation in mind.
Reply
Cooper Quinn
9 months, 2 weeks ago
"Whereas 15mm front axles were a step back in performance,"
My understanding is that's exactly why 15mm axles exist - they didn't want people to "think" that their new SC fork was up for the same tasks as a 20mm axle'd DC fork. So they went for 15mm.
Reply
Timer
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I don't think that was the reason. Single crown forks with 20mm axles had been widespread for years before Fox? came out with their 15mm version.
Reply
Velocipedestrian
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Yup, half a dozen 20mm SC forks in the parts pile here.
Reply
OldManBike
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I agree with Pete on Boost being a meme for a broader frustration. That’s kinda my point. I wasn’t saying Boost was good or bad tech-wise, I was saying that its spectacular unpopularity stands as an obvious counter-example to the argument that Sram are marketing geniuses.
Reply
Pete Roggeman
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Boost was hated but I'm pretty sure just about everyone has settled down and accepts it now except for 157 devotees. We've seen this pattern before though - boost was needed to pave the way for future innovation. Short term pain was absolutely worth it. It doesn't really matter if some individuals think boost was a failure on SRAM's part, their big win was killing the front derailleur and making massive market share gains. That's a mega marketing win even if their rep suffered slightly in the interim.
Reply
Timer
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Wait, why was Boost needed? What does it actually, in the real world do that 142mm spacing couldn’t? I can’t think of anything except a barely measurable increase in wheel stiffness. What am i missing?
Reply
Gage Wright
9 months, 2 weeks ago
"I started to wonder how we got to a point where people cared so deeply about something so minor." Can we get a confirmation on the inception of NSMB? Cam? Pete? Trev? That would be your answer specific to the comment section on NSMB. More broadly speaking, since human kind started monkeying around with tools.
This was the "okaaaaay, I need to stop reading NSMB for the day" moment for me. Not to knock Mike or NSMB because I am still a reader and a fan but this felt like content for the sake of content.
- https://nsmb.com/articles/the-big-gulp/
To be fair, this MTB zine/webetoir of journalism publishes a lot of more nuanced and introspective MTB culture based pieces than other rose tinted publishers. NSMB has plenty of articles that examine while playfully poking the "royal we" in the eye for a good measure of humble pie. Dare I say even this piece was a bite of self reflection.
Keep creating and I will consume.
Sincerely,
Gage the Consumer
Reply
Cru_Jones
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Red Medicine will always have a special place in my head because that was the first album I was old enough to see Fugazi tour on. I prefer Steady Diet of Nothing or Repeater, but all their stuff is great.
Reply
Dogl0rd
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Fuck it, I run a 2021 Lyrik because that's the last year they made in 170mm
Reply
Cr4w
9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment has been removed.
Jerry Willows
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Dave... you had me at buttercups.
Reply
cxfahrer
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Regarding forks, Sram will never beat Fox's Kashima nonsense. Boxxer Red is just okay to have for the average person, but Kashima is the one thing you want. Forget Buttercups.
Brakes from Sram are known to be mediocre, for ages. The first Avid Code was a milestone they never reached again. I am curios what brakes will come out as top-of-the-lineup since Code is standard for trail-bikes now.
And meanwhile everybody knows what shit they sell with SX and NX and even GX cassettes. There is such a gap to the XO and XX parts in quality - I am not interested in AXS and transmission, but I can see the possible benefits for some riders. I don't think that Sram did a good job with those affordable drive trains, no marketing will help there.
Fugazi... such a long time ago.
Reply
Andy Eunson
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Do you know how close to a buttercup sticker you need to be to spot that? I can see Kashima from a long way away.
Reply
Perry Schebel
9 months, 2 weeks ago
i'm just waiting for RS to re-release the shiny gold (and/or silver) ti-nitride. SO sick. lack of durability aside, of course, but i'm sure that could be improved.
amusingly enough, i'm running a performance elite fork rather than a factory specifically because i don't like the kashima color (doesn't fit my aesthetic, which - obviously - is more important than a negligeable performance advantage).
Reply
Cooper Quinn
9 months, 2 weeks ago
The rumor is that the black oxide coating actually performs better on the fork dyno, providing less friction.
Dunno re durability, though, as that's one of the touted Kashima benefits.
Reply
Eric Van Sickle
9 months, 2 weeks ago
My black stanchions wore rather quickly. I went with black from the outset to save money and I liked the look. Ended up costing me more money to replace the stanchions than what I saved. Regular oil and seal replacements. I was told by several shops and a suspension service company that the black doesn’t last as long.
Reply
Onawalk
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That seems suspect to me, only time I’ve seen the coating wear off is from neglect. I’m gonna challenge your assertion of “regular” oil and seal services, cause that comment is very nearly as suspect as “just riding along”
Andy Eunson
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That makes some sense. Kashima is said to be hard anodized which from what I can tell from reading googled stuff is simply thicker and it contains molybdenite in the pores. Arguably more slick and thicker will be more durable. Most of us don’t keep our stuff long enough to wear out stanchions before they get scratched or other bits wear out. My old 36 did show signs of wear after 6 seasons.
Tim (aka DigitBikes/DirtBaggies)
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Unless you’re shouting, there’s no need to capitalize Sram.
Reply
BadNudes
9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment has been removed.
Cam McRae
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That's one I often struggle with. The grammar nerd within me resists formatting like that of BoXXer but he capitulates when it's time to go to print.
Reply
Tim (aka DigitBikes/DirtBaggies)
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I was a RockShox tech back in the DHO days, if I remember correctly (and I might not) the 'XX' in Boxxer was a reference to the hub, with it's 20mm axle. The DHO fork had a single crown and a used Ringle BoXXer hub.
With it's 15mm axle it should now be called BoXVer, or just Boxxer.
edit: I think they retcon'd the Boxxer name a few years later to refer to double lipped wiper seals.
Reply
Cam McRae
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That is excellent trivia.
As far as SRAM goes, I’m okay to write it that way because Sram looks goofy and because it is an acronym (sort of) for Scott, Ray and sAM I believe.
Reply
Tim (aka DigitBikes/DirtBaggies)
9 months, 2 weeks ago
They should have bought Mavic instead of Zipp, to achieve Sachs, Rockshox, Avid, Mavic.
Come to think: Mavic was an acronym, but rarely capitalized.
Reply
Timer
9 months, 2 weeks ago
You might want to write Magura as MagUra, if you are going for the acronym angle.
Reply
Tim (aka DigitBikes/DirtBaggies)
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Cam, I support letting your inner grammar nerd, your true self, prevail. It's a very abbreviated portmanteau:
Reply
Cr4w
9 months, 2 weeks ago
What does Sram mean? I thought it was an acronym but it's someone's name?
Reply
James Heath
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I always knew it was an acronym, but I could never remember what of, so in my head it's always just been the most American names I could think of - Sandy, Randy, Andy and Mike
Reply
cheapondirt
9 months, 2 weeks ago
My phone autocorrects it to all caps and refuses to learn otherwise. Like why are we yelling?!
Reply
Carlos Matutes
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Nope.
It's an acronym, SRAM is the correct way to write it.
Reply
Dave Smith
9 months, 2 weeks ago
As the ad guy in the room I don't get the point of this article. You're ranting because SRAM (a billion dollar company )have a professional advertising and product content marketing engine?
After decades of seeing the publication of marginal creative executions in the bike industry replete with, poor art direction, lousy copywriting and ineffectual product launch strategies shouldn't we be celebrating craft and professionalism.
Edit:
BTW Discord advertises and promotes their artists. They just do it in the voice and in the mediums that are the most effective to reach their audiences. I've seen Fugazi - Plaza of Nations with Mecca Normal. One of the best shows ever.
Reply
Dave Tolnai
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Dave...where's the rant? Honestly. How is this a rant?
This began from an honest question of why people were so hung up on buttercups. While I'm no marketing professional, I had a few thoughts about it and I came to the conclusion that SRAM does a much better job of this than many other companies and I provided a few examples of what I thought made them successful at doing so. I'm explaining why I think they've done a good job on selling people on obscure, technical things and I've provided a few examples of companies that haven't been so successful. There's certainly some sarcasm here, and I do question if people need all of this stuff. But this is literally an article talking about things that SRAM has done really well in the name of selling us stuff.
Reply
Cam McRae
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I didn't see your article as a rant either actually. But any ode to marketing (formerly referred to as advertising) should be wrapped in irony and sarcasm if it's truthful.
As Jerry Seinfeld put it, while accepting the ad industry's Clio award, "I love advertising, because I love lying." That speech is worthy of your time.
Jerry Seinfeld's Clio Acceptance Speech
Reply
Dave Smith
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That Seinfeld speech got shown a lot in ad schools. I do have a healthy degree of loathing for my chosen profession but I would hesitate to call it lying. A generous dollop of hyperbole and the creative omission of details has gone a long way in the past but there are ad standards now.
I've always seen marketing as the strategy of bringing a product to market. Advertising is the creative layer on that strategy.
Reply
Cam McRae
9 months, 2 weeks ago
“I would hesitate to call it lying. A generous dollop of hyperbole and the creative omission of details has gone a long way in the past but there are ad standards now.”
A marketer’s response if ever I’ve heard one! I’m not on any high horse though. A significant portion of our modest revenue comes from advertising. And marketing.
Reply
Dave Smith
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I was going to say that this site was designed with significant consideration to the advertising and maximizing real estate for all those little digital billboards.
Pete Roggeman
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That Seinfeld speech had a lot more going on with it than just cynicism about advertising, though, didn't it? Let's remember HE took the money to be in those ads, so his rant against the machinations of advertising (no matter how satirical) was pointing at himself at the same time he pointed at the biz, the world, the CLIOs, etc. He took the bag, that speech was his way of registering resentment for having to be there to accept it, otherwise AmEx, Acura, and any other brand he's worked with for years for big money would think twice next time.
People interchange marketing and advertising but, same as you, I always understood marketing as the big umbrella (strategy, price, positioning, product, packaging, merchandising, etc) and advertising is just the mouthpiece that communicates that strategy. But advertising is the part of marketing that every consumer can see, so that's understandable.
I've come to despise a lot of things about marketing and advertising because so much of it is done badly, or unconscionably. But the good campaigns, the success stories, are still fun, or inspiring, or something to appreciate. They're just fewer and farther in between. Social media and online marketplaces have made for a very thick jungle and as a consumer, my machete-wielding arm is getting tired.
Reply
Dave Smith
9 months, 2 weeks ago
The rant in it feels like its overly singular and I think the underlying questions could be elevated to speak to things of more social/cultural value.
" I do question if people need all of this stuff." This bigger question IMO is your best and would have been an interesting question to ask and then look at how different brands are trying to convince us we do need these things through advertising.
This question of need is playing out on the floor of every bike shop in the world with every retailer and brand suffering the bust after the boom of a lifetime. It's more than just the boom and bust of the pandemic or product build cycles. I have been reading about how GenZ and Millennials are shifting their purchasing habits to experiences rather than big ticket products and the amount of bikes gathering dust on showroom floors would suggest there is something to that trend. How are different brands trying to solve this problem of need by showing how a better product can improve experience in the face of crippling inflation?
-----------
Sidenote:
If you want to get me going on a full Fugazi fuelled rant. -> How did we as audience let brands become the filter for what's cool?
- Cousin Dave
Reply
Dave Tolnai
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That feels fair. I think, generally speaking, I come at things with an air of "do we really need this". Perhaps a piece where I praise the marketing of a specific company isn't the right place for that tone. Or maybe it's the exact place for that tone? Us not needing all of this stuff isn't specific to SRAM, but it feels like pointing out that a specific company is doing a really good job of convincing you that you need stuff is a good place to talk about not actually needing that stuff? Again, nothing against SRAM. If you're going to sell people stuff, you may as well do a good job of it.
Honestly, this was all driven by a fascination of the buttercups discussion. I totally get excitement over a new product that looks and comes across as entirely new. If you took the decals off a MY2023 and a MY2022 Zeb, I don't think I could tell you which is which. To me, it's remarkable that SRAM was able to get people excited about a new fork that didn't really look like a new fork, based on technical bits inside the thing. I can't think of another example of that happening. Many companies fail to sell us on things that are probably a lot more exciting, and it got me thinking about their formula:
1) Build hype through trickling out secret new bits in public.
2) Give your technology a clever name.
3) Explain what you've done simply, clearly and concisely.
4) Profit!
I'll also admit that in re-reading this piece it's far more cynical than I remember it being while writing it. Whoops! I was a bit more rushed in this piece than I normally am and it probably shows. Not necessarily in the cynicism, but in the general level of crappiness.
Reply
DancingWithMyself
9 months, 2 weeks ago
From a marketing standpoint, I think the genius of buttercups is that
(1) they targeted a "problem" a huge majority of riders struggle with at some point or another: harshness, hand pain, arm pump, etc.
(2) they offer a "product" of less vibration and harshness of which, generally speaking, you can't have too much.
(3) they do so with a new widget that's (a) easily understood and (b) nobody else has.
(4) there's no real downside (no added weight, rolling resistance, etc.) other than maybe the need to replace them in year or two, but service isn't on the average consumer's mind
(5) there's basically no way to determine if it actually works, because, as Andrew astutely pointed out, I'm pretty sure SRAM isn't going to send you two identical forks (one with buttercups; one without) to test back to back. But is could work. And there is an extraordinarily high likelihood you are going to sense a placebo effect via confirmation bias.
I think the number of people who miss a shift and think "I wonder if it'd be better if I had Transmission" is a whole lot smaller than the number of people who suffer from hand pain, etc. and have a little voice in the back of their heads wondering if it'd be better with buttercups.
Reply
Cam McRae
9 months, 2 weeks ago
“(5) there's basically no way to determine if it actually works, because, as Andrew astutely pointed out, I'm pretty sure SRAM isn't going to send you two identical forks (one with buttercups; one without) to test back to back.”
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Stay tuned!
Mark
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Cam, to really make that test work you should run a platform of different testers. Have a balance of people who really know their stuff and are good mechanics, people who are good riders and people who ride like a dumptruck in a china shop. Let's see if these things matter for the average rider.
Pete Roggeman
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Mtn bikes are a difficult place to make that argument: they're not a mainstream luxury good, their use is restricted to a tiny, tiny niche of people. Unlike Porsches or other things that appeal to a wide swath of people and universally communicate conspicuous consumption. Plus bike shops are loaded with stock because brands delivered 2-3 years worth of stock in a compressed time period and everyone thought 30% growth was 'the new normal'.
I saw a lot of millennials over on the SSC this weekend who took the ferry in their cars with racks loaded with expensive bikes, or just pedaled over on 8-10k road bikes, bedecked in very expensive kit, $400 shoes, etc (in this case I'm specifically thinking of a group of 10 of 'em, men and women). Sure, they wanted the experience of a riding weekend on the SSC, but they sure as hell spent a wad on the toys they brought to have that experience.
If the debate is 'new iPhone every year' vs 'new iPhone every 3 years and a vacation every year' I think it's got merit, but I think the bike world and the outdoor sports and rec world in general is still fueled more by gear than by experiences, and based on the biz model for service-based businesses that provide experiences vs selling stuff to people, it's not hard to see why.
Reply
Dave Smith
9 months, 2 weeks ago
It kills me to think that Mountain Bike Action had it right all along and we are just a bunch of crazed trash pandas chasing shiny objects.
Reply
DAVEL62
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Fugazi is so good.
Reply
JT
9 months, 2 weeks ago
"....and the hype hits full steam."
Full stream is right, a helluvalotta dank hot air. And not just from the co but from us commenters too. I own my part in the hype machines. I've bought into the Newest Hyped Product and been bitten in the derriere more than once because of it so I'll withhold my judgment for the three year mark in the product cycle, when bugs have either been chased fully out or the product ends up abandoned to memories of excessive warranties.
But yes, Sram has a well-funded marketing department, almost as well-funded as their legal department it seems.
Reply
DancingWithMyself
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Excellent and entertaining rant. I especially enjoyed, "when Fox rolls out their version of ButterCups, nobody is going to care too much about the paragraph where they tout their new foot-mounted rubber isolation bushings."
And whether we're willing to admit or not, we're all affected by this stuff to one degree or the other.
Reply
Dave Tolnai
9 months, 2 weeks ago
The best explanation of what VVC is and does shouldn't be a 15 minute video where Jordi tears apart a fork and explains it to you.
Reply
DancingWithMyself
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I think you've got a natural follow up piece about why people get so emotional (mainly angry) over brands. They are corporations making hunks of alloy/plastic/carbon/etc. Regarding this article, why do people feel the need to use a light hearted, insightful, and funny article as a reason to bash SRAM as a corporation and/or the entire line of SRAM products? It's not relevant to the point of the article.
Is it that people's identities are so wrapped up in cycling that they are trying to craft identity through brand loyalty? Is the abnormal amount of vitriol that seems to be directed at SRAM really just evidence of a dislike of change? Are these people naturally inclined to be glass half-full people, only focusing on the innovations that turned out not to make much sense rather all those that have been wonderful (and perhaps unrealistically expecting the industry to bat 1,000 with innovations)?
I had a creaking crown on my Lyrik right about the time Transmission was announced, and I was definitely annoyed that SRAM was devoting all those R&D dollars to electronic shifting instead of a better CSU, an adjustable clutch that didn't infringe on Shimano's patent, etc. But I think/hope that's different. I'm not emotional or angry about Shimano or SRAM as corporations.
It just seems silly to be angry at an entire corporation over the design of their products (except maybe for pit viper).
Reply
Cooper Quinn
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Agreed re: Pit Viper.
Reply
DancingWithMyself
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Got a new XO1 cassette today (20% off; thanks Transmission), and it irritated me so much I have to walk this back a little.
SRAM's packaging is extraordinarily and needlessly wasteful, and the corporation itself should get crushed over it. I don't understand, in a world where a big 3 like Trek is releasing company-wide data on environmental impact, why my cassette still comes in a huge, embossed cardboard box with a big plastic tray inside of it.
Reply
Andy Eunson
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Some of Shimano’s packaging is now just paper and cardboard. No plastic packaging for the new cleats I bought this year or for the brake pads I got from Biccicletta yesterday.
Reply
93EXCivic
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I only have owned one piece of SRAM gear since I started mountain biking a 10 speed X9 drivetrain.
Reply
Mammal
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Early 2000's XO shifter and Derailleur were PEAK SRAM. Take my word for it, I still have a set running great on my DH bike.
Reply
Dave Tolnai
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I started putting X9 on almost all of my bikes through the mid-2000's. There were probably a few XO bits sprinkled in there, as well. It was well priced and had a very satisfying "ka-chunk!" to each shift. I loved how terrifically short their short cage derailleurs were. I have no idea how I was able to ride around on a single ring 32 tooth coupled to an 11-28 cassette.
First generation Juicy brakes were some of my favourite brakes as well. These were the first discs that I felt just worked and felt awesome. There were probably others, but coming from Hayes, those were a much better product. Did Avid ever sell Juicys when they were independently Avid, or was that all post takeover?
Reply
Mammal
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Sram took over Avid in 2003, so I think it's likely the Juicy's were post-takover. I had a pair too (2009 model year bike) and they were great.
Reply
FlipSide
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Are you reffering to 9sp or 10sp XO? I have a bike on the 10sp version and I agree they were great product.
To me however, the best SRAM drivetrain ever was the original XX1 11sp. Crisp, reliable and beautiful. I built a hardtail last year with a full XX1 drivetrain (NOS). Even if it's 10 years old, I find it easily beats the XO.1 Eagle I have on my other bike.
The OG Juicy 7 with the plastic red adjuster knobs (from 2006 iirc) were indeed amazing. I have a set that I used on several bikes and that are still working perfectly on my commuter bike.
Reply
Dave Tolnai
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Definitely not 10 speed. Must've been 9 speed. I feel like I have hardly any memory of running 10 speed systems.
Reply
Mammal
9 months, 2 weeks ago
9-speed, still alive and well running a 9-speed road cassette on my DH bike (pulley wheels are pretty worn though). Shifts are CRISP AF.
Reply
dano91
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Saw the thumbnail, didn’t read the article, but agree that it’s all Jesse Melamed’s fault.
Reply
Bli33ard
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Well, there was one bike maker that used the same tactic several years ago, and it really turned me off to them. It was more like a trademark in search of a product than the other way around! God, how long have people been saying "Extreme!" like they were comparing a flashlight to a gamma ray burst? Yes, there's a sucker born every minute.
SRAM, I can say from recent experience, has fantastic customer support, and the suite of Rockshox suspension on my bike build works just fine. The fork has Blackbox on it, I don't know what it means and they could have put Dogfuck on it as far as I'm concerned, it's still a great fork! And in conclusion, it's called FOMO, if you're one of those suckers.
Reply
Marty Zaleski
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Such a long stretch of grades 11 and 12 were with Fugazi on repeat.
Reply
DubC
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Not my favorite fugazi album, but fuck that's a good cut. I use ButterNuts....to pad my taint.
Reply
Hollytron
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That red medicine album is so good. On a few occasions though Guy’s lyrics are really easy to mis-hear, for the longest time I thought he says “you’re a turkey” in this song and in “meet yr maker” it was “its time to eat Jamacian!”
Reply
rockford
9 months, 1 week ago
FWIW - It's CalledCamelCase and they do use it to great effect!
Reply
[email protected]
9 months, 1 week ago
The last few years Sram has become the apple blue bubble in the bike industry. Oh you don't have buttercups? Pfft
Reply
bikebum
9 months ago
That picture of a dude sitting at home in his underwear, commenting on high tech companies ....
Reply
Lu Kz
9 months, 2 weeks ago
"We Are One launched their 170 Arrival with MY2022 RockShox and people wrote it off! “What the hell WAO I want ButterCups!” I did it myself in the GG Gnarvana First Look! What the fuck?"
I know this is totally a tongue in cheek bit, but when a small, 'made in North America' brand doesn't have SRAM's latest and greatest on their new bikes between 2020-2023... don't blame the small brand, OK? Heard many a story of big component brands foisting stuff the big guys don't want anymore onto the smaller brands ("If you want stuff for your MY20XX bikes, you have to have this. Otherwise, we might have something for you for 2025), or straight up caving to big customer demands to bully small customers (hey large distributor, we feel threatened by this plucky competitive up and comer, so you have to stop allowing them to buy XXX, or we'll cut you off, ok?).
Reply
Dave Tolnai
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Just to clarify, the “what the hell wao...” was a comment posted in the launch article by somebody else, not by me.
Reply
Pete Roggeman
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Completely understandable but you can't blame the consumer there. We Are One was the new hotness and people were lining up to buy them. Of course they expected the new stuff to be on there!
Reply
Please log in to leave a comment.