BarryW profile

MTX assured me that their red pads works just fine on the resin only rotors. 

So far my wife doesn't want more powerful brakes so she's still running resin pads on hers, but if she ever wants to improve the power that's going to be my first step.

Yep. 

As my wife runs a 27.5 bike and I have to keep/maintain two wheel sizes I realize that's a tiny nuisance, but not one I want within my own bike. 

#lazyisefficientright?

Exactly. 

Also, a smaller wheel inherently gives a lower gear, so you can fix that with a large chainring or shifting up down the cassette. 

Not sure why this is listed as a tradeoff as it's just using gearing as appropriate.

"this is pure gatekeeping. yes its being a dick."

In what way? Do you disagree with the ideas that we should screen applicants for certain professions based on physical ability or skill? Are you having a problem with ANY form of gatekeeping? My point is that in a discussion when one person complains about another 'gatekeeping' it is usually easy enough to demonstrate several levels of gatekeeping that is partaking in. And honestly it's a silly term to describe unfair, unreasonable discrimination, NOT reasonable, necessary limits. As an example, you don't want children having access to hard narcotics, ergo gatekeeping. Sure it's a ridiculous example but it serves to prove a point about the blanket use of 'gatekeeper!!' as a negative. 

I'm curious, did you read what I wrote as a person with physical disability and how it has impacted my life? I say these things out of empathy, not just sympathy.

Thank you. 

However, I have riden motorcycles on the road at about 100,000 miles worth. I've riden off road motorcycles, and I've riden ebikes. 

Making the assumption that the problem is about ignorance of the object is not constructive, and deeply flawed. I don't argue they are illegal, but I argue they are not good for the sport and we the bicycle riding folk of the world need to push back on the profit motive driven companies that keep pushing them. 

You keep saying they use bike parts, they are similar ride experience to a bike and therefore are NOT a motorcycle but therefore a bike. Well along those lines early motorcycles were... Bicycle. Except they weren't. Just because a car is barely running and only making enough power to barely move on flat ground it is always a car. Why this is not the same logical path on ebikes astounds me. 

And you made a good observation that I mentioned campgrounds for watercraft. That is true, but it doesn't negate that sea kayaking is a human powered sport. And if you cannot do it I am very sorry but you can't bring along your Zodiac with an outboard on our trip (electric or gasoline). Why? Because we are sea kayaking, NOT power boating. If you need to use a power boat go right ahead, just don't think you are sea kayaking. 

Okay, on the backcountry skiing, it is the same in areas that allow both. Because these areas exist. In that scenario I am certain you nor anyone else want someone that cannot ski, but can ride a snowmobile along for the day. Even if it is allowed legally. 

And Sethimus, this isn't about energy use, or about carbon emissions, never has been, never will. 

Lu Kz, I answered the questions honestly and decently. Not sure what you are claiming is malicious?

I can guarantee you and anyone else claiming that the reason we all need to happily accept ebikes is for disabled people to mtb all put limits on that. See the o'e about riding a snowmobile on a ski hill, or a kayak with a motor. Abelism is discrimination based on physical ability and judging that person by it. Because no one has a problem with the fire department saying that some people can't pass the physical testing. Some people can't do all kinds of things and I'm one of those people. I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes as a small child and it meant I really couldn't purse my dream of being a pilot. Sure, the world has turned and now I could, but I wasn't harmed by that. I also couldn't become a firefighter, enter the military or many other things. In fact it meant my folks wouldn't let me race bicycles as a teenager because they worried about my diabetes. I didn't like that but it was a reality I had to  deal with. So don't cast shade on me as someone that doesn't understand disabilit. And see my comments in this thread about getting massive surgery a year ago, then another one two months ago. All to remove a significant part of me. 

Everyone sets limits to their sport. Everyone of you claiming I am a jerk for doing it also do it. You just choose different lines of distinction. So enough with the moralistic arguments about how anyone that says certain modes are not mountain biking. We all do it, even you.

I'm actually trying to have a decent discussion here guys. 

And I'm frankly blown away that several of you seem to have no issue with bringing a motor along on a kayaking day. Quite literally no one else has ever taken it that way. So let me clear it up, there are campsites all over that are human powered or 'beachable sail craft' only. You cannot use them with ANY powered vessel. And no one is harmed by that, no one really has any issues with that. Mostly because it's clear these are not for motorized use. 

On our mountain bike trails the ebike crowd seems to have little trouble making rules about who and what gets to use them, but they always assume that their ebikes are within that circle of approval. I'm asking why that is. 

Why do you see the 'obvious' difference between motorcycles (high powered) and powered bicycles (low powered)? Both are powered, the components do not define that. 

My kayaking friends are in no way assholes, instead they are fairly defending what their sport is. They go out for kayaking. And if you can keep up, handle the conditions we paddle in, and not use a motor pretty much anyone can come. Row boat, peddle kayak, whatever. But you can't come along with us using a motor because that's a different sport. 

Why is that bad to you? Why are your limits (of no ice motorcycles, no electric motorcycles, no side by sides, etc) okay and the idea that a bicycle is not powered problematic to you?

As to why it's problematic to me, here goes. 

As a proponent of human powered sport I go I to the woods knowing that the harder I work, the more remote I go the fewer and fewer people I will run into. Not because I hate people, but because I want that true wild place that few people get to. And when someone comes along that has not put in the work it diminishes the value of the work. 

Put another way, why does no one here worry about disabled backcountry skiers? Why don't we accept snowmobiles for them in human powered only backcountry areas? Do we cry 'discrimination' and allow powered skis? Of course not, because that would be preposterous. 

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm trying to have a civil and reasoned discussion. Please engage on these points.

No, it's the obvious logic.

It isn't even a stretch. There are a ton of different types of motorcycles, with vastly different use cases, componentry and the like. Yet all have motors. Therefore all are motorized cycles, aka... Motorcycle. 

Why is this even hard? 

I'll admit they are not same, same. But neither is any ebike the same as a regular old human powered bicycle. In what way are these not mopeds? Because they easily and obviously fit that definition. In what way are these not motorcycles? Because they easily and obviously fit that definition as well. You're playing a different sport, and I'm not saying you're a bad person for it, and I know it is super fun.  But it isn't the same sport, it's very, very different and should be considered as such. 

And to take the analogy to another sport, let's try this:

I paddle sea kayaks a lot, and as noted I've spent a lot of time recovering from some serious medical issues, and therefore couldn't kayak for some time.

What if I didn't accept that and insisted on taking my canoe, mounting my little 5hp outboard on it and coming along on a sea kayak paddle? Obviously no one in that human powered sport would accept that, and if it was an overnight trip I could not stay at any human powered only campsites. 

And why not? Because it isn't kayaking. It isn't human powered, therefore it's different. Explain I'm illogical, ins of just saying it and trying to dismiss offhand.

You seem to have sidestepped the questions. 

How am I wrong about putting motors on bikes? 

And see how you put in a limit to what can/should be used on a trail? You easily say nope, that thing isn't obviously not allowed. But somehow you assume that ebikes should be? Why?

"Some need it because they have debilitating issues with their bodies"

So if I take a paralyzed friend down a mtb trail in a side by side that would be okay? 

Obviously not. 

So let's stop pretending that this is an excuse. Sorry but all people cannot do all things. We don't allow disabled skiers to ride around on snowmobiles right? You just maybe can't ski. And I say this as someone that has spent 3 months of the last year recovering from a total colon removal, a year of wearing an ostomy bag and just after last Christmas a reconnection. Sure it sucks to be laid up, but it isn't okay to borrow a Jeep and drive down mtb trails. 

Remember folks, if you take any idea to its logical conclusion and it becomes insane... It wasn't logical to begin with.

Electric bicycles are motorized bicycles, also know as 'motorcycles'. 

Really wish we could stick with mountain biking on here. 

As for the issue Pete brought up that because ebikes and bicycles basically use the same parts so they are all bikes is silly. 

Motocross bikes use tubeless tires, double crown forks, chains, sprockets, hydraulic (non-powered) brakes, spoked wheels. How come they aren't considered the same? You only believe the ebike story because it's being sold by bike brands. 

Why aren't you okay with a SurRon on the trails? And how can you consider them different? Because you need to pedal yours? I can guarantee you wouldn't be okay with a gas powered moped on mtb trails. 

Bicycles don't have motors. Mountain bikes aren't motorized. That's a different (and quite possibly delightful sport) but it isn't bicycling.