Nukeproof Scout Comp NSMB Andrew Major
FIRST IMPRESSIONS

Nukeproof Scout Comp Hardtail

Photos Andrew Major
Reading time

Hardtail Knowledge

It‘s obvious that Nukeproof ‘gets’ hardtails. For proof, look no further than the geometry chart and tire spec. The geometry chart shows both sagged and un-sagged numbers with the 140mm fork sagged 35mm (or 25%) to present a more accurate snapshot of reach, stack, head tube angle (HTA), seat tube angle (STA), wheelbase, etc. when riding.

For the tire choice, the Scout Comp runs a harder compound, faster rolling rear tire with a heavier duty casing and a softer rubber front tire with a suppler sidewall. I could whinge that an Addix Soft rear and Addix Ultra Soft front would be a much better choice for this time of year on the North Shore, but I'm too busy being stoked on the mix-and-matched sidewall setup to stress about it.

Fine, I'll whinge a little. Nukeproof went with Schwalbe 29x2.35" rubber and I'd really prefer to ride 2.6" tires on this bike. The 27" version (the Scout 275) sports 2.6" rubber while this 29" version (the Scout 290) does not.

Nukeproof Scout NSMB Andrew Major

Beefed-up Nobby Nic Double Defense rear tire in the firm Schwalbe Addix compound.

Nukeproof Scout Comp NSMB Andrew Major (2)

Suppler Magic Mary Super Trail front tire in the fairly tacky Schwalbe Addix Soft compound.

Nukeproof makes the Scout hardtail at four price points starting with the 1600 USD Race, followed by the 2300 USD Comp, the 3000 USD Elite, and finally the 3800 USD RS. The Comp is far and away the most interesting build, with a min-maxed mix from a number of brands.

At this time Nukeproof USA is not shipping to Canada nor do they currently have Canadian dealers. But in addition to online sales in the USA, they have a growing brick-and-mortar dealer list. Hopefully they add us Canucks online and in person soon.

Nukeproof also sells a limited edition frame-only version of the Scout in both wheel sizes that includes a headset, axle, and seat collar for 500 USD. The key question here is whether it'd be better to mullet the 27" or 29" version. My napkin math says the 29" version, but I'm open to debate.

It's a nice-looking frame for the price. I'm quite fond of how the seat stays tie into the top tube on this size large, and the bridge-less seat and chainstays will hopefully combine to deliver a modern aluminum ride quality. Nukeproof claims the Scout frame, designed around a 140-150mm fork, weighs 5.1 lbs. for a medium.

Nukeproof Scout 29 Geometry NSMB Andrew Major

I love that Nukeproof shows sagged and unsagged hardtail geometry. This is the 29er Scout 290 Geometry Chart. For the 27" wheel aficionado, check out the Scout 275 Geometry Chart.

Min-To-The-Max

Looking at the four models, the second tier Scout Comp immediately caught my attention. The product manager was clearly let out of their cage for this model and went min-to-the-max to deliver a creative best-spec-for-the-budget parts mix. This is the only one that isn't a cookie-cutter Shimano or SRAM bike.

The drivetrain is comprised of a Shimano Deore M6100 12-speed shifter, derailleur and chain, a SunRace 11-51t cassette, and a Race Face Ride Cinch crankset with a steel Shimano 12 ring. The SRAM brakes thrown into the mix are the most interesting feature.

The DB8 is SRAM's mineral oil brake that combines their ubiquitous Code brake pads with a significantly more positive braking action than the least expensive Code R brakes. This isn't down to the fluid being used, but rather the fact that the DB8 is a next generation SRAM brake. It makes me look forward to riding their soon-to-be-released new DH brakes.

Continuing to talk about the DB8 brakes, these aren't just a score for the price of the Scout Comp, they're a score relative to the higher cost Scout models as well. I'd actively choose the DB8 on the $2,300 Comp over the SLX 4-piston brakes on Nukeproof's 3,000-dollar Elite model and the Guide RE brakes on their $3,800 RS model.

The brakes get a 200mm rotor up front and a 180mm rotor in the rear, which is a standard 20mm size discrepancy on hardtails that most folks run to better balance braking.

Nukeproof Scout NSMB Andrew Major (8)

The DB8 brakes use mineral oil rather than DOT fluid but do share the same pads as SRAM's longtime Code brake systems.

Nukeproof Scout Comp NSMB Andrew Major (5)

The braking feel at the lever is much more positive than the Code R, for less money. This is down to the DB8 being a next generation brake for SRAM.

The choice to go with Marzocchi's Z2 fork on the Comp is a bit strange as it's a 130mm travel fork as opposed to the 140mm Fox 36 on the Elite model and the 150mm RockShox Lyrik Select+ on the RS. The lower end Race model uses a 140mm RockShox Recon.

Personally, I would have made this an all-RockShox bike lineup. Recon on the Race, Revelation on the Comp, Yari on the Elite, and the Lyrik on the RS. Might as well make them all 150mm forks at the same time and keep everything consistent.

It's not that the Z2 is a bad fork, though. It's actually very good for the price, after a basic lower service that this one needs fairly desperately. It would love some SKF low-friction seals as well, but I'm just going to drop the lowers.

In any event, in addition to riding the bike with the Z2, I'm planning to ride it with the high-end 140mm Manitou Mattoc Pro, then over-fork it with a 160mm SR Suntour Aion, and then run it with the RSD Rigid Fork. Hardtails are all about options.

Nukeproof Scout NSMB Andrew Major (10)

The 130mm Marzocchi Z2 is as blech out of the box as all the Fox Rhythm forks I've ever ridden.

Nukeproof Scout NSMB Andrew Major (11)

I assume that, as with those more-budget boingers, a basic service will make a world of difference.

Rather than the Race Face bottom bracket and FSA loose ball or basic cartridge bearing headset, the Scout Comp sports house brand parts in both these areas. I'm sure these products will be at least as good as those options. The 64.5° HTA quickly becomes a 66° HTA with sag and that has me thinking I'd be dropping a -2° headset into the 44/56 headtube if it was my bike.

Nukeproof also sells its bottom brackets as aftermarket replacements in a range of colours in both 24mm and BSA sizes. Actually, they have a whole line of interesting, potentially high value components. I quite like their Horizon Pro flat pedals (111x99x18mm) and they do a good-looking kid's model, the Urchin, as well (94x76.5x17mm).

On that last note, the Scout Comp does ship with some basic plastic flats and a pedal wrench, but I wish they'd put that money into the bike somewhere else.

Nukeproof Scout NSMB Andrew Major (12)

House brand sealed bearing headset.

Nukeproof Scout NSMB Andrew Major (13)

House brand 24mm external bottom bracket.

Assembly Hits & Misses

Trust brown to let you down. I expected things to start off on the wrong foot after my wife watched the UPS driver flip the Scout bike box end-over-end up the (three) stairs to our apartment. So I'll start giving kudos to Nukeproof about their packaging efforts.

There was zero damage to the bike, although three of the reusable straps that Nukeproof uses in place of zip ties were sheered off and one of the plastic brake inserts had fallen out requiring me to reset the pistons as part of the assembly process.

The reusable straps in place of zip ties, including one Nukeproof-branded rubber ski strap that would be perfect for strapping a tube to the bike, are a nice touch, as is the general lack of plastic for packaging. There were soft plastic end caps for the wheels and otherwise, the only dead dinosaurs here were two clear sheets protecting the lock-on grips.

I've assembled a lot of bikes and I have to hand it to Nukeproof, the Scout Comp is right up there with the best. Out of the box, the gears shifted perfectly and, after resetting the front pads courtesy of UPS, the wheels spun infinitely with zero brake contact. Very nice.

Where I was disappointed is that all of the zip ties were chopped off haphazardly with sharp and pointed edges. Many of them weren't actually tight. It's lame to get a bike this dialed and then not flush-cut the zip ties. Normally I'd just shrug my shoulders here, but clearly Nukeproof gives a shit where some giant brands do not, so hopefully they can take this feedback and do just that little bit more.

They also get failing marks for the cable routing to the shifter. It was an easy fix to twin the rear brake and shifter housing together on the left side of the bike. I assume that the intention is to have the gear housing not cross the headtube, but that's weird too.

Immediate Upgrades

Slap on some pedals and ride, right? The Scout Comp build has no obvious shortcomings. I should just trim the 800mm handlebars to my preferred length and go.

Instead I’m making two obvious changes out of the box. First, no matter what rim came stock, it‘s a hardtail so there’s a tire insert going in. With the Schwalbe Double Defense tire the CushCore Pro I had on hand is probably overkill, so I’ll move over the CC Trail insert that‘s on the We Are One Arrival when that review wraps shortly.

I’ll also install my SQlab 30X bar with a 16° backsweep. There's something about hardtails, even with suspension forks, where my wrists are significantly happier with the alt-bar lever backsweep. In the process, I'll take advantage of the hinged dropper post lever clamp and the I-Spec to MatchMaker adapter on the shifter to run the push-on grips already installed on it. That said, for double clamp lock-ons, these Sam Hill grips are actually quite comfortable.

The stock Nukeproof-branded saddle works okay for me, as does the 170mm Brand-X dropper. On that note, the medium ships with a 150mm and both the XL and XXL use 200mm posts.

Nukeproof Scout Comp CushCore NSMB Andrew Major (16)

Installing CushCore Pro in the Schwalbe DD rear tire. This will likely be downsized to a Trail insert in the future.

Nukeproof Scout Comp NSMB Andrew Major (17)

This is a factory Gorilla Tape patch over the tubeless tape at the valve hole. Better than re-taping.

Future SKU Cutting

Chant it loud, chant it proud, 'Mullet, Mullet, Mullet!' It's easy enough to convert a mullet to a dual 27" bike by preserving geometry with a long fork and/or an extended lower headset cup. It's quite possible to use a mullet (MX) wheel configuration to chop SKUs.

If I was king of Nukeproof for a day, that small Scout would be a dual 27" rig, the medium and large models would be mullets, and the XL and XXL units would be dual 29er rigs. That chops five SKU numbers they currently have to babysit. Put another way, it cuts the number of Scout models in half.

Nukeproof Scout Comp NSMB Andrew Major (14)

It's currently a dual 29" rig, but I have plans to mullet it, over-fork it, rigid fork it, and single-speed the Scout Comp.

Plans, Plans, Plans

I want to put some hours on the house-branded 36-point Neutron V2 hubs, but I plan to mullet this bike using my own wheelset, with its significantly faster engagement. I'll run the same wheels I currently have on the Banshee Enigma so that I can comment on any relative ride quality differences I can notice between the two frames.

Other than mullet-madness and multiple fork swaps, I also plan to single-speed the Nukeproof just to keep things interesting. Deore M6100 is awesome, but there's also not a whole heck of a lot to say there. The SunRace cassette doesn't shift as well as a Shimano Hyperglide+ under heavy pedaling loads, but I don't shift in those situations anyway.

Nukeproof Scout NSMB Andrew Major (15)

I like that the bar-stem interface is 31.8 instead of 35mm.

Nukeproof Scout NSMB Andrew Major (16)

The grips are good, for dual-clamp lock-ons, and the dropper remote is good enough.

Nukeproof Scout NSMB Andrew Major (17)

The WTB-esque saddle works okay for me, but I maintain if you're going to copy one of their perches, choose the Koda.

I'm working on wrapping up my We Are One Arrival review series before I get too deeply involved with the Scout Comp, but I'm happy to answer any questions about the bike as best as I can now with the promise of a future follow-up when I have a pile of experience.

For now, I'll conclude by encouraging the folks at Nukeproof to unleash their product team to bring the same energy to the rest of the Scout lineup that they've used for the Scout Comp. The high value of the build aside, it is incongruous that the 2,300 USD Comp model is much more exciting than bikes that are 700 and $1,500 more expensive. Looking at the lineup, I'd be strategically upgrading a $2,300 Comp over buying a $3,800 RS every day.

For more information on the entire Scout 290 and 275 lineups check out Nukeproof. And be sure to check back in the future for a full ride review, including a variety of different configurations.

AndrewMajor
Andrew Major

Height - Steve Buscemi-ish

Wait - Patiently

Ape Index - T-Rex

Age - The same as DOS

Favourite Trail(s) every week - Pipeline (thank you Ken!) to Lower Crippler (thank you Andy!)

Favourite Song(s) this week - I'm Your Man. Nick Cave (covering Leonard Cohen)

Favourite Colour - Cosmic Lilac

Bar Width - It depends

Reach & Stack & ETT - It depends

Crank Length - 175mm except when it's 170mm

Wheel Size - Hot For Mullets

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Comments

fartymarty
+1 Blofeld

At least they left a bit more steerer than the Canyon but it would be better if they left a few more cms.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+3 Blofeld Velocipedestrian Tremeer023

Headset spacers aren’t expensive. I’ve been told some forks specify a maximum of 30mm of spacers under the stem (would love to see the engineering-science behind that number), but at least give me that then.

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fartymarty
0

30mm would work for general adjustment.  I wondering there is a set max. amount - confirmed by fork manufacturers.

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AndrewMajor
+2 Vik Banerjee BarryW

I mean, at some point I’m changing the bar for more rise. And I guess too long and folks that slam their stem have a massive steerer nub above their stem, which isn’t the best either - but I don’t see many slammed stems these days.

Slack enough bike and I’m loving that -ve ESL anyway though, so what do I know?

For some reason in these conversations I always feel like I have to post this photo:

Reply

Vikb
+3 Andrew Major BarryW Lu Kz

The owner of that Docta is my people. I don't have the excuse he does of very long legs to justify the spacer stack, but that's just details. ;-)

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AndrewMajor
+2 BarryW jhtopilko

Just details! hahahaha.

.

I've been laughing about the two-piece bash guard since I posted that photo. I never noticed it before, but clearly, T-Type is living rent-free in my brain these days.

andy-eunson
0

I checked the Fox site a while back for a 34 step cast that I installed on a bike. 30cm max it said. The frame had a dinky 90 mm head tube. Maybe shorter and height was required at least until she started riding more and she could tolerate a lower bar position. We lowered it over a few months. Old injuries and a deteriorating body dictated that high position. That was with a short Hope riser stem and a 25 mm rise bar. Now on an Fubar 50 rise bar and the stem is all the way down. 

The numbers on this frame are good on paper. They just don’t make one small enough for me.

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rwalters
+1 Andrew Major

Excessive spacers between the headset and stem can theoretically result in bent or broken steerer tubes, but you'd have to be riding really hard / crashing often. Also harder on your headset bearings.

If you need more rise, you're usually better off going with a higher rise bar.

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AndrewMajor
0

I mean, certainly that’s the theory but the question boils down to what is “excessive.”

Would there be any difference to bearing life/steerer durability say going from 2cm of spacers to 3cm of spacers? Then what’s the effect of going from 3cm to 4cm?

I’ve worked on bikes belonging to some big dudes who ride hard and buy rigs with tiny headtubes and can’t get over the aesthetics of riser-bars over 40mm. Maybe 50mm. And between running 4-to-5cm of headset spacers or taking my advice and picking up a 76mm ProTaper riser bar they’re choosing spacers. 

It’s all anecdotal of course, but none of them has cracked a steerer and I haven’t noticed any difference in headset bearing life. Good headsets last ~ forever and FSAs need a new bearing right after you put a bearing in and most folks have something in the middle. 

———

Now that I think of it, I haven’t seen a properly cracked or punched out steerer tube since bike companies stopped selling stems with wedge clamps. Ooo, though I shiver thinking about some of the good ones.

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rwalters
+2 Andrew Major Blofeld

To be fair, most truly aggressive riders are getting their CSU’s replaced every season anyway, so steerer doesn’t get enough action to see a failure. I personally try to limit my spacer use as much as possible.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Ryan Walters

Hahahaha. I knew there was a creaking CSU rebuttal pending :)

monsieurgage
0

Is this true?  I just replaced my Zeb CSU after a year of ridding and my pike also blew but after many years (3).  Waiting for my Lyric to die next but its bomber so far.

AndrewMajor
+1 Ryan Walters

@Gage it is significantly less if an issue than it was both in terms of the percentage of riders it affects and how long it takes for the pressfit to start creaking.

That said, there’s certainly a number of aggressive folks who ride hard & heavy in steep terrain who would be best suited by Enduro-weight & travel dual crown forks. 

I’d go as far as to say once a (non-sponsored) rider is going over a 200mm front rotor they should be on a DC fork. Clearly it’s less expensive to warranty crowns than design/manufacture/market such an animal.

rwalters
0

I've averaged about 1 CSU / year since I got rid of my Boxxer ;)

AndrewMajor
+1 Ryan Walters

@Ryan Walters, don’t you love it when the problem and the solution are one and the same? Hahaga

rwalters
+1 Andrew Major

@Andrew: I'd happily go back to a 180mm DC - trust me when I say that I've tried pretty hard to get one for review...

I do feel like the manufacturers have figured something out in the last year - CSU's do seem to be much more reliable than even 2 or 3 years ago.

AndrewMajor
0

@Ryan

I do feel like the manufacturers have figured something out in the last year - CSU's do seem to be much more reliable than even 2 or 3 years ago.

It’s such a massive change that when a creaking fork comes into the shop from the last couple years I actually confirm it’s not the stem or headsets bearings creaking rather than just assuming it’s the CSU.

What 180mm DC forks are on your radar? Thanks to shared parts it’s possible to lower the Formula Nero R, and the Manitou Dorado is easy to drop as well. Ohlins too. The problem is, being WC DH forks designed to have 8” travel they’re all a bit heavy compared to what could exist on a 180mm-specific Enduro DC fork.

rwalters
+1 Andrew Major

@Andrew: Dorado is almost a non-starter because of huge offset numbers, and I feel turning radius would be unacceptable. Nero was on my radar, but Ohlins and Boxxer were my main candidates - mostly because those two forks could be setup with minimal geometry effects when compared to a 180mm SC.

Kenny
+1 Velocipedestrian

My brand new Cane Creek Helm managed 10 rides. 10. 

Suspensionwerx folks said creaky helms are not a thing and were dubious of my claim, but confirmed the creaky. 

Now bike out of commission pending a CSU. So lame.

I bought it specifically because I had also heard they are not prone to creaking, hopefully I just got a bad one. 

I just don't get how forks that cost more than what a "normal" person thinks a whole bike should cost, can have this issue.

AndrewMajor
0

@Kenny,

I know a number of riders who push hard on Helms who've had zero CSU issues over multiple years - but had issues in the past with other forks - so it's certainly one I regularly recommend to folks who've had multiple crown steerer creaking experiences. 

Cane Creek has really solid QC/QA, which comes right down to pressing the components in North Carolina so they can inspect the individual parts before they're put together. 

That said, it seems to be true of anything manufactured from pacemakers to riding pants that even the brands with the best standards occasionally pass through a dud. Sorry that it ended up on your bike, but I'd guess based on a number of experiences, including having owned a Helm myself that's still going strong with the following owner, that the replacement will give you no issues.

Kenny
0

@Andrew: yes your sentiment is exactly why I picked the helm (I have a 38 on my other bike and don't even get me started on that CSU tale of sadness). 

James nearly dismissed it out of hand, said helm creak is not a thing, basically. 

So yeah, hoping it's just an anomaly and really bad luck and not a repeat of the fox 38 dumpster fire on my other bike. 

Funny enough my hardtail has a beat to piss 2017 DVO diamond that does not and will not creak (knock on wood). But, my hardtail does not see the abuse my full suspension bike does.

DogVet
0

Now you can get addedcreaking  at both ends of a bike, CSU  and the down tube lunch box! Certainly most of the SC owners complain of creaks when mount a water bottle onto the lunch box cover!!

Winner

a.funks
0

I’m not that gnarly and not that big and I’ve had the creaking steerer thing happen twice in five years on the 160mm Lyrik on my Levo. The first time I had to pay for a SRAM replacement (because they were replacing the damper FOC  a few months ourside warranty but wouldn’t do it without me paying for a new CSU too). That new CSU again started creaking just outside the two year warranty… FFS.

Anyway, I found a company here in the UK that presses and glues in new steerers that it sources from this company:

https://ndtuned.com/en/produtos/tubos-direccao

I got the heaviest duty one fitted, so I’m hopeful that between being a chunkier bit of aluminium and also glued in that it might last longer!

We shall see how the same fork with original steerer survives on my singlespeed hardtail - it definitely doesn’t get smashed into things as hard so if it also creaks I will be most annoyed…

AndrewMajor
+1 Ryan Walters

@Ryan it will be very interesting to see if longer rear centers on ‘super enduro’ and enduro bikes end up being accompanied with shorter reaches and increased offsets.

That said, you don’t think you could get used to a 52mm or 55mm offset? 

I guess really you shouldn’t have to. Easy enough to adjust offset be selling multiple crown setups and with a bigger market (Enduro + e-MTB) there’s no reason companies couldn’t do multiple options.

Reply

Briain
+2 Andrew Major Ryan Walters

I'm pretty sure Ohlins already does

AndrewMajor
+1 Briain

Briain you're correct. Ohlins has four offsets 46/50/54/58mm.

rwalters
+1 Andrew Major

Dorado is 57mm offset (!) for 29er drop crowns. Although, I wonder if the flat crowns (47mm offset) that are intended for 27.5 would work with a 29er wheel with the travel set to 180mm??

Hmmmm.......

AndrewMajor
0

@Ryan as long as your total cup-to-cup stack height (actual headtube length including headset cups) is between 87-121mm you can use the 47mm offset crowns with a 29” wheel (any travel).

rwalters
0

@Andrew - Interesting. I'm not sure where you're getting that stack compatibility info, but my stack including headset should just squeak under 121mm.....

AndrewMajor
0

@Ryan it’s in the Dorado owners manual. You clearly aren’t the first person who has asked.

Blofeld
+1 Andrew Major

Four build kits, three fork lengths, one geometry chart. I wonder if it is correct for any of the configurations? Perhaps a tape measure could be used at some point to let us know at what we’re actually looking.

I had no idea Nukeproof stuff could be purchased without using Chain Reaction Cycles.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+2 Kenny Blofeld

I will endeavour to report accurately, but I’m positive the geo chart is based off a nominal (Fox or RockShox) 140mm fork.

Not to be too cynical, but I think more geometry charts are aspirational than most folks think. Especially with hardtails where companies often don’t list sagged/un-sagged geo, and generally a wide range of fork lengths are usable

You know, you can’t usually just look at a frame and say “nice try Evil” because the there is no bending of mathematics that make the effective STA close to claimed, but ride enough bikes…

But I will follow up. 

———

[aside] Alternatively, one year when I reviewed a Rocky Mountain Growler 40 the bikes came with 130, 140, and 150mm forks because the product manager and gone based on axle to crown heights to keep the static geo the same through the lineup. [/aside]

Reply

Blofeld
+2 Andrew Major Velocipedestrian

Excellent! Thank you. 

Aspirational geometry is a good way to look at it. Sometimes these numbers seem like they’re from the Island of Misfit Spreadsheets. I hate to see anyone making choices on an angleset or crank length based on nonsense.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+1 Velocipedestrian

Anytime someone asks about angle-setting a bike out of the box I always recommend riding it with the stock headset first for a baseline. At this point with geo-charts, I generally can figure out the size, or at least get between two and then flip a coin. Beyond that it always takes me way more than a test ride to get a bike dialed in anyway. 

Somethings I know, like I'd prefer 175mm cranks, but I'll be fine with 170mm, and especially on hardtails I want a bit more backsweep in the handlebar. Beyond that, we'll see what it looks like in a month.

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trailschnitzel
+1 Andrew Major

I sometimes wonder if there’s a assembly line to assemble the cheap bikes with cheap tools, and one for the expensive bikes with the full Knipex line to avoid spicy zipties :D

Reply

AndrewMajor
0

There are certainly different build quality options even from the same assembly outfit. 

But based on how well the rest of the bike went together, I don’t think Nukeproof is cheaping out in this regard.

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roil
+1 Andrew Major

Very cool to have a sagged geo chart. This should be done for all bikes, along with a formula for calculating actual seat angle at any height.  

Looking forward to your tinkering on this bike.

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AndrewMajor
+1 roil

Cheers! Many, many plans. There’s a versatility to hardtails that I love to celebrate. It’s sort of like trying to talk about all the potential things someone might do with their Scout over many years but wedged into a few months.

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stinhambo
+1 Andrew Major

I had no idea the DB8 were a next gen product! Way to make me like my bike just a little bit more :)

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AndrewMajor
0

Yeah. Rumour is they only exist because of OE demand for mineral oil fluid from a couple large European brands. Which is silly, but my brief experiences with the DB8 have been excellent.

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stinhambo
+1 Andrew Major

I for one am greatly enjoying them! I run organic compound and they're fine for my riding. I might upgrade to semi-metallic and new rotors next year. Oh and find myself a bleed kit for it.

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AndrewMajor
0

I wish they used DOT fluid and a standard SRAM bleed kit, but I suppose then they wouldn’t exist.

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Briain
0

I had the previous generation Scout and it was a great bike particularly as I paid just over €200 for it new. I only changed because I wanted more reach. But the rear end is very solid especially compared to my Cotic Bfemax. I've done really well with nukeproof wheels as far as I know their rebranded Novatec with better bearings but I've put 1000's of Km on them without ever replacing a bearing. The rims if their still WTB dent pretty easily

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AndrewMajor
0

Same tires, tire pressure, etc zone the Bfe Max? Just asking as that particular model of Cotic is known to be very stiff (I haven’t ridden one, so that’s not first hand).

Yeah, KOM Trail is a better rim than a lot of the OE WTB hoops that show up on (way too) expensive bikes, but it’s a hardtail so it’s been CushCored straight up.

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Briain
+1 Andrew Major

Exact same wheels and tyres. I've found the cotic absorbs the bumps better than the nukeproof, mine was the v1. I also don't have a huge frame of reference with hardtails you just don't get them on demo days. The KOMs are better but I've still dented the crap out of them but it could just be me and my lack of skill.

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AndrewMajor
+1 Briain

Thanks! Just always curious as it's been my experience that wheels, tires, inserts, and pressure all have a much larger effect than frame material. Not that frame material or at least design doesn't make a difference, just that it's one of many metrics. 

I wasn't meaning to step in and defend the KOM. Especially on the back of a hardtail if I didn't run inserts I'd have a very short list of rims that I'd ride around here and they wouldn't be on it. I've had the best anti-dent results from the Stan's Flow EX3 and DT EX lineup (511 / 471). I have great impressions of the newer Race Face ARC rims as well but haven't ridden them myself without inserts installed. 

I just meant to say that I'm not so worried about rim spec on a hardtail because I'm going to be running inserts from day 1. As long as these KOM Trail rims hold their tension and shape as well as the KOM Tough rims I've been using (with inserts) for years then I'm happy because I'm running inserts anyway.

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R.bobbby
0

I had a 26" Cotic Soul and directly after that a 27.5" Bfe, both with 2.4" tyres. The Soul was a much nicer riding frame, I sold the Bfe pretty quickly as I never really gelled with it due to it feeling to stiff..

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AndrewMajor
0

The Soul used a 10mm quick release rear wheel or was it also a sold 12mm thru-axle? Some of the ‘dance’ factor in older steel frames is they were allowed to flex.

Vikb
+1 Andrew Major

That's odd. The BFeMAX is a stout frame. I'm closing in on 200lbs and I wouldn't have ever wanted it to be stiffer. I would have added more flex to the mix if I could.

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fartymarty
0

Interesting on BFe.  I've not ridden one (but have a wee bit of time on the Solaris) and HT Party said they felt similar - the Solaris was a little more supple.

I would love to see a test that measures HT suppleness - both vertically and laterally.  However this will have to be done on all frame sizes as I'm sure S frames are comparatively stiff cf XL frames.  As such is going to be very involved.

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AndrewMajor
0

Frame size, rider weight, and riding style are all going to be factors. It's a system though so I'm positive that tire casing/air pressure and wheels are making a bigger difference. 

Actually, I know a couple of riders who commented their Honzo ST frames seemed less brutally stiff when they changed their forks from Fox 34s to forks with much stiffer chassis. It's sort of funny to think the frame felt less stand-out aggressive because the whole system was being made stiffer.

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fartymarty
+2 Velocipedestrian Andrew Major

I guess it's about differential stiffness.  A stiffer / firmer fork / wheels set will make the frame feel less stiff.  Maybe the extra stiffness encouraged harder charging = more balanced stiffness overall.  We are probably only talking a few percent each way to change the overall feel.

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Briain
+1 Andrew Major

Stiffness is relative to weight and I'm 240lbs. But if you look at how the backends of the scout and bfe are constructed the scout is much burlier. I would agree with Andrew though that frame construction and component choice has a bigger effect on perceived stiffness rather than material choice.

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AndrewMajor
+2 Briain bighonzo

Absolutely, rider size has a massive effect on how every component feels.

Shoes is a huge one. I’m talking about something being a stiff soled shoe from the perspective of someone who’s a buck eighty five and wearing a 43. I’ll get feedback from folks saying their experience was wildly different and it always comes down to foot size and rider size.

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Zero-cool
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I don’t know about in the USA but in Europe all complete bikes need to be sold with pedals and reflectors. And it’s the shop not the distributor that has to front the cost.  Hence they all come with the same crappy pedals. 

The Urchin range is good stuff though. Both my 5 year old twins have them.

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AndrewMajor
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Reflectors certainly. 

A bike isn’t a bike without pedals. But the waste is also real, as is the risk of someone actually trying to ride their new couple-of-grand mountain bicycle with awful pedals.

I suppose my suggestion would be to add a pedal selection option at checkout where a rider can select their pedal level. This is essentially what’s happening in shops.

I know at least one brand (Specialized) at least with their higher end stuff you have the option of requesting your free pedals if you really want them, but they are cutting down garbage by not shipping endless number of straight-to-the-bin plastic flats.

———

That’s good to know. I haven’t seen them in person, but I thought the Urchin stuff looked great.

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mrb-mtb
0 Andrew Major fartymarty

This is a bit spooky: I just upgraded my Marin San Quentin with a Nukeproof Scout frame..

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AndrewMajor
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Interesting, what was your goal in making the swap? It was same for same (same size, same wheel size, same build - just a frame swap)? 

I was just looking at the latest San Quentin frames - including the 29'er version they added this year to multi-model mainstream the El Roy - and thinking they'd be direct competitors by applications and price point. Even in having the frame-only option and the fact the frame-only is a similar price.

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mrb-mtb
+1 Andrew Major

Not so interesting I'm afraid - the main goal was a smaller size. I was also on the San Quentin 1 frame with the QR dropouts, so side benefits are now having the same axle standard (and seatpost diameter) as my trail bike.

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AndrewMajor
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Swappable wheels is a big force multiplier. Whether it’s spares or having different tires, etc.

As you say, an interesting coincidence.

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cxfahrer
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There are rumors about a wandering bite point with the DB8, did you notice anything like that?

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AndrewMajor
+2 cxfahrer bighonzo

I’ve only set up and parking lot tested DB8 brakes to date, but I do notice WBP on Shimano brakes - including brakes where the owners do not - so if this set of DB8s has an issue I suspect I’ll notice. I’ll be sure to report back either way.

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stinhambo
+1 Andrew Major

I haven't experienced this with my set (Canyon Spectral 29 AL5).

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Frorider
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Thx for keeping the HT ‘actual’ geo discussion alive.  Got a terminology question…most everyone I know (like me) riding a modern HT on techy terrain is running 2.5 WT or or proper 2.6”, with an actual OD of 28 inches or  a bit more.  So in my mind when I’m not riding my 29er, I’m on my 28er hardtail.  You seem to prefer to refer to this as a 27 inch bike…

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AndrewMajor
+1 Velocipedestrian

Apologies for the confusion. Are you referring to the section ‘Future SKU Cutting’ here?

This Scout is a 29’er - Scout 290 - but they also do sell one that has 27” wheels front and rear. The Scout 275.

I always use 27” in the place of twenty seven point five, because they’re all dumb made up marketing numbers anyways. 29” wheels are 28” wheels (the same as 700c) but the original 2.1” tires measured ~ 29”, outside diameter of the tire, so marketing dictated they be called that.

27” (27.5) is the old 650b size and in my perfect world that’s how we’d refer to them. 27” is a good compromise though.

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Useless
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SRAM’s “soon-to-be-released new DH brakes:”  The only reason I haven’t pulled the trigger on Dominion T4s for my next build is due to waiting to hear how the Mavens (or whatever the end up naming them) turn out.

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AndrewMajor
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Rumour is they’re still a DOT fluid system and that they’re comparable to the Dominion 4-piston. Haven’t so much as squeezed a lever so that’s not a first hand account.

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tashi
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Reach seems kinda short relative to similar bikes, no?  

I hone in on about a 475mm reach unsagged, which is generally a "large" but that's a XL in these bikes.

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AndrewMajor
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If you look at the effective top tube length and seat tube angle I think the sizing makes sense. The Scout is not bleeding edge compared to other ‘modern’ hardtails but the position works well for me and I’m glad not every bike is the same.

I haven’t decided exactly how to proceed from this first look but certainly I’ll do a comparison between the Scout and my El Roy, which are based off the same travel fork and intended for the same application but are very different geo wise. The El Roy has been replaced with a (~similar geo) aluminum San Quentin 29’er this year that, like the Scout, is available frame-only for a reasonable sum so I think there’s certainly meat there to dig into.

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tashi
+1 Andrew Major

So, I’d still choose a large, but it would be a shorter feeling bike when standing than something with a 475-480mm sagged reach?

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AndrewMajor
+1 tashi

Standing a bike with the same effective top tube, but a slacker seat tube angle will feel shorter. Not necessarily too short, but this really depends on preference. Descending I like to hinge behind my saddle a bit, and steer with my body, and combined with slack head tube angles and shorter reaches I prefer an effective stem length that is quite short. 

In terms of a comparable, another bike I'm riding quite a bit right now is the size large We Are One Arrival A170. On the A170 the Reach is 472mm, made effectively a bit shorter by the fact I run 30mm of headset spacers under my stem. The Reach number does not grow with sag, and this is right in my unicorn zone for static geo. Sagged and standing the Reach on the Nuke Proof is basically the same at 470mm, and of course as soon as I'm coming down anything steep the bike is even longer.

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MaddSquirrel
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Will we be getting a review of the DB8s? There isn’t a lot out there.

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resination
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I've been riding a Scout 29 for the past 6 months.  I had to mullet it last week after sending a wheel off for warranty repair.  The difference was subtle but noticeable on the first ride, but after that it was business as usual.  Which has generally been my experience when changing things like stem length or bar rise.

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AdeMiller
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It's a shame. Right after this article dropped and I pretty much decided th pull the trigger on a Scout Wiggle/CRC/NukeProof had all their financial problems. Now it seems like their US distribution is no more. Hopefully they'll recover, as the only other option is to buy from the UK and pay shipping and (probably) import tax.

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