Trek Roscoe 7 NSMB Andrew Major (5)
REVIEW

Ruminating On Trek's $1650 Roscoe 7

Photos Andrew Major
Reading time

Truth, Lies, and Superior Brakes

Straight up, I don't love the Trek Roscoe 7. There, I said it. When I'm kitted up and ready to ride, it requires a boost of willpower to take this bike. However, by the bottom of this piece I'm going to present my case that it's currently among the best values in mountain biking.

My apathy probably should not come as a surprise. The wheels on my other mountain bikes would run two thirds of Roscoe's price tag, and they're on aluminum rims. The SR Suntour Durolux 36 RC2 isn't fancy, but it's a fantastic fork for around half the total cost of the Trek. My first gen Magura MT7 brakes are ancient at this point but they still stop like brakes that cost a third the price of this Roscoe.

Trek Roscoe 7 NSMB Andrew Major (6)

The Roscoe 7's excellent value begins with a nice aluminum frame featuring good geometry and three great colour choices, and continues to a Shimano Deore M6100 drivetrain.

It's all about perspective. The other day I was playing with a beautiful Öhlins RXF 38 M.2 Air fork that sells for a hundred dollars more than the complete Roscoe 7. Just for the fork. In a box. The price of the Roscoe includes having it assembled and set up for you at your local dealer, and most likely comes with some kind of service package.

I'd be telling a bald-faced lie if I said I could be happy riding the Roscoe, out of the box, as my daily driver. I love riding hardtails, but, as fun as the Roscoe is on blue and faded-black trails there are some upgrades, particularly brakes, that I'd consider mandatory if it was going to be my only rig. On the flip side, I can envision riding an upgraded Roscoe 7 as my main steed, and I think that's awesome.

From the frame up, the Roscoe has great potential and that should be a huge consideration for someone buying a bike at this price and planning to own it for ages.

Trek Roscoe 7 and Marin El Roy NSMB Andrew Major (2)

The question I get asked the most about the Roscoe 7 is why I'm running my water bottles in tandem when the Trek frame happily accommodates two bottles, with one on the seat tube.

Trek Roscoe 7 and Marin El Roy NSMB Andrew Major (1)

The answer is it takes only two bolts to move the B-Rad base over from my personal Marinster Truck, but would take four bolts to move the two cages separately. I swap this setup back and forth regularly so it's a time saver.

Roscoe 7 Revisted

For me, all discussions of the Roscoe 7's value actually start with Shimano's excellent Deore M6100 12-speed drivetrain, including Shimano cranks. Next year I could argue that it should come equipped with the new LinkGlide M5130 Deore 10-speed, but when this bike was built, M6120 was arguably the only drivetrain that mattered.

The almost all-SRAM NX drivetrain of the Roscoe 8 is a downgrade for an extra 620 CAD. The mostly Shimano SLX drivetrain of the Roscoe 9 is not an upgrade for an extra 1620 CAD. Those bikes also get better forks and wheels, but I'll talk about that more in a bit.

Let's look at the drivetrain of the Roscoe 9 for a moment. The SLX cassette has an aluminum low-gear that will wear out significantly faster than the steel option on the Deore cassette, and the e*thirteen Helix 24mm cranks tie the owner to a proprietary chainring mounting system that is much rarer than the 4-bolt setup on the basic Shimano MT511. Both bikes have the same Deore M6100 chain.

Deore M6120 NSMB AndrewM (2).JPG

I'll happily ride the Roscoe 7's Deore M6100 drivetrain on any level of bike and logged many hours on my Alpine Trail and a Banshee Titan tester in the past.

Banshee Titan Short Long NSMB AndrewM (1).JPG

I'd choose to upgrade the suspension, tires, wheels, and brakes before I'd worry about the shifter, derailleur, cassette, or chain.

Apart from the drivetrain, which I'd happily ride on any mountain bike, the Roscoe frame is the star of the show. It sports great geometry, and obviously quality construction. It's available in three attractive colour combos, and it's nice to have that much choice at any price, never mind a hardtail that's a heck of a package for 1650 USD | 1880 CAD.

In my my first look piece, I talk about the acceptable wheels, brakes, and the dropper post on the Roscoe 7, along with the tires that vary from awesome to ok, depending on the terrain. The tires are better than many that come on bikes twice this expensive, though for my local terrain I'd prefer to use them as rear only with a CushCore insert, and add a more aggressive, sticky tire up front.

Trek Roscoe Miami Green NSMB Trek

I really enjoy all three colourways available for the Trek Roscoe 7.

Trek Roscoe Cobalt Black Splatter Sunrise TREK

This Teal & Trek Black combination with the splatter 'sunrise' decals is my favourite.

Trek Roscoe Badass Black NSMB TREK

The frame-only option is only available in Black, which is safe, or as I prefer to call it, boring.

It's possible to spend less money and still get a trail-worthy rig with okay geometry. My issue is that the hits to performance will be immediately noticeable and expensive to make up in the future. Take Trek's Roscoe 6 as an example.

The basic coil-sprung fork, square taper cranks, and hot-garbage Kenda Havoc wire bead tires are all significant downgrades for just 400 CAD in savings, but it also doesn't share the same frame. I'm not bothered by the 141mm quick-release rear wheel, but the significantly shorter reach and steeper head tube angle limit the bike's trail potential compared to the frame that is the heart of the Roscoe 7.

The Roscoe 7 was actually a nice value at its previous pandemic-bike-rush price of 2200 CAD, but for 1880 CAD it delivers significant value for folks who can stretch that extra four hundred bucks from the tier of bikes below.

RSD Rigid Fork and Trek Roscoe NSMB Andrew Major

Running a NOS (new old stock) Bontrager SE4 3" tire on the front of an RSD rigid fork with a 510mm axle-to-crown was a fun Roscoe 7 setup.

RSD Rigid and Trek Roscoe NSMB Andrew Major by Clairebarian

I did conclude that the Recon Silver is a better choice for the majority of Roscoe customers, despite its basic shortcomings. Photo: The Clairebarian

Geometry, Geometry, Geometry

Neutral is the name of the game here. The Roscoe has a slack enough seat tube angle (STA) for a comfortable balanced bike fit and good power creation on less-steep climbs, but it's also steep enough that all but the most dedicated pedal-and-plunge riders will likely be happy within the range of fore-aft adjustment from the saddle rails. Especially because the STA does get a bit steeper with sag.

Some folks have commented off the geo chart that a 65° static head tube angle (HTA) is slack for an all-rounder mountain bike but remember that this is a hardtail, so I quickly find myself halfway through the travel rolling into anything steep. I think a good general rule is that a hardtail's HTA should be 2° slacker than a full suspension bike for the equivalent application. If anything, the HTA on the Roscoe is steep compared to its full-suspension siblings: I'd place it between the Top Fuel and Fuel EX in terms of application.

Trek Roscoe 7 2023 Geometry NSMB

Remember that hardtail geometry changes significantly through the fork's travel. Trek could do with slackening the Roscoe 7 HTA out 1.5-2° to keep it current with its full suspension sibling the Fuel EX.

The Roscoe geometry puts me in a comfortable climbing position and I'm overwhelming the brakes and fork long before the descending position is an issue. And that's in fairly steep terrain.

Trek could still increase its future upgrade potential, and room for rider progression, without hurting its climbing chops, by going a bit slacker with the head tube angle. I could see them bumping up the bike to a 150mm fork as well for the extra descending prowess, especially in steeper terrain when it sags much more.

I think about the Roscoe as the hardtail version of Trek's "Do Anything" Trek Fuel EX, which just rolled over to Gen 6.

Trek Roscoe 7 2023 NSMB Andrew Major

It's not a direct-mount chainring crankset, but the 30-tooth steel ring with a 10-51t cassette will be good for most riders, and I'm excited to see a Shimano MT511 crankset.

Clairebarian Group Ride UTS NSMB Andrew Major

My youngest brother is a casual rider and has borrowed the Roscoe 7 on a few of our family rides. It's a faultless machine for the fun blue trails we're riding and a significant improvement from his bike.

Min-Max Upgrades

Let's say the Roscoe 7 buyer was prepared to pay the initial 2200 CAD price of entry and now at $1880 they have a few hundred bucks available for upgrades. Or they're just stretching up the 430 CAD from the Roscoe 6 but they're planning to really progress on the bike over the next year; where is money best spent on upgrades?

Once I've picked up a pair of pedals, the first place I want to spend some money is on a decent dropper post remote. Then, it's on to boosting the brakes. The stock calipers slow me down just fine on North Shore blue trails, but for the confidence to progress beyond that, more powerful braking is key. I'd do this before I left the shop in the form of a Shimano MT420 front caliper and any decent brake rotor compatible with sintered brake pads. If budget allowed I'd do calipers and rotors front and rear. The beauty of the MT420 brake calipers is they're plug-and-play with the lines, fittings, and levers that come stock with the Roscoe 7, and they work fantastically with the Shimano MT200 master cylinders. They sell for 50 USD | 70 CAD.

Trek Roscoe 7 2023 NSMB Andrew Major (6)

The long Shimano MT200 lever blades feel great and offer plenty of leverage and nice modulation. A rotor upgrade would help immensely with initial power.

Shimano MT420 Brake Caliper NSMB Andrew Major

The Shimano MT420 4-piston caliper is a bleed away from plug-and-play performance with the stock lever and brake line on the Roscoe.

RSD Rigid and Trek Roscoe NSMB Andrew Major by Clairebarian (2)

It's not just about what would become rideable with better brakes, but also how much faster I could attack sections I can currently ride on the Roscoe 7.

The 2.6" Bontrager XR4 tires should really be SE4 tires. The same rubber compound, and the same tread, but better sidewall support and durability for the hardtail rider trying to balance control, comfort, and cost. But these are a bit lighter if you're counting grams. I'm installing inserts right away to prolong the life of the e13 rims, which have a reputation for being quite soft, and tires while improving traction.

Good inserts aren't inexpensive but add up the price of a rim, spokes, nipples, and a wheel build or the cost of a couple of tires, and it doesn't take long to pay for itself, especially on a hardtail. With 2.6" rubber I'd typically go CushCore Pro front and rear but the new Trail inserts they're releasing that will sit between Pro and XC are an intriguing option, at least for the front.

Bontrager Line Comp 30 wheel NSMB Andrew Major (2)

The Roscoe 8 comes with Bontrager's Line Comp wheels, an excellent balance of budget, and hub engagement. I'd love to see the Roscoe 7 shipping with the same hoops.

Bontrager Line Comp 30 wheel NSMB Andrew Major

Even if the reality of spec at this price point means that the Shimano/e13 setup on the Roscoe 7 is the best Trek can do, I'd love to see a 6-pawl Line Comp wheel upgrade option.

Once I've sorted the remote, brakes, and tire inserts I'm thinking about the North Shore winter months where I'm going to want a stickier front tire for our rock-armoured all-weather trails. I'll save the SE4 tires for the rear and grab something mean for the front. I'd like to stay 2.6" to match the rear volume, so I'd be tempted by a Specialized Butcher T9 or a Schwalbe Magic Mary Super Trail in the Addix Soft compound.

Next up is saving some up cash for a fork upgrade and maybe a rear wheel, since I'd like a faster-engaging rear hub. On the fork front, I've had friends recently pick up take-off SR Suntour Auron 35 PCS-RC2 forks and RockShox Yari RC forks for prices almost too good to be legit. I'd be happy with either in a 150mm travel setup.

CushCore 29 Plus NSMB AndrewM (1).JPG

On a hardtail being ridden hard, or even less hard with a rider experiencing a lot of progression, tire inserts can quickly pay for themselves in rim & tire replacements.

Race Face ARC 40 Offset and CushCore Plus NSMB Andrew Major

CushCore is by far my favourite setup. They have four different mountain bike models now (XC, Trail, Pro, Plus) to match up with your riding, internal rim width, and tire size.

The Recon Silver RL SoloAir fork did an okay job once I dialed in the rebound damping. Dialed is the wrong word because every click feels like opening the pull-tab on a canned beverage and needs to be accompanied by a quiet prayer that it's moving rather than breaking. It's smooth enough and supportive enough for any local blue trail. I just know that, after the brakes, it's the part that would most noticeably dictate where I would and wouldn't ride the Roscoe.

With the wheels, Trek is big enough to handle the logistics of a wheel upgrade program and their Line Comp 30 wheels which come on the Roscoe 8 would be perfect for this bike. The 108-point, 3.3° engagement 6-pawl hubs aren't faultless compared to more boutique options but they're still a min-max favourite of mine.

Trek Roscoe 7 2023 NSMB Andrew Major (5)

This next-level POS dropper post lever did not break on me during this test. Because I took it off after one ride rather than give it a chance to leave me, or it, dangling. I did receive a bit of flack for this decision.

Trek Roscoe 7 2023 NSMB Andrew Major (7)

I've also had an increasing amount of pushback over my derision toward 'Resin-Only' rotors. They suck. Wet or dry, anywhere properly steep, just replace them and move on.

Proposing 7a, 7b, 7c

Moving forward from talking about upgrades to the Roscoe 7, I'd propose to Trek that they have a platform worthy of a revolution in budget bike thinking. Instead of building the Roscoe 8 and Roscoe 9 which dump a lot of money into drivetrain upgrades that aren't actually improvements, why not adopt a min-max mentality that sees the Roscoe 7 more strategically upgraded?

If the Roscoe 8 at 2500 CAD shared the same Deore M6100 drivetrain, in addition to the Bontrager Line Comp 30 wheel upgrade, the fork, and MT420 brakes, we could be talking about a significant fork upgrade, like the Yari or even a Lyrik.

If the Roscoe 9 at 3500 CAD shared the same Deore M6100 drivetrain, in addition to the M6120 brakes and RT-66 rotors, we could be talking about some pretty nice upgrades hung on that same, high-quality 'Trek Alpha Gold Aluminum' frame.

Trek Roscoe 8 NSMB Andrew Major

I'm a sucker for this metal-flake blue that Trek calls 'Mulsanne' and the upgraded wheelset is a win. But imagine the further upgrades possible if Trek had stuck with the M6100 drivetrain off the Roscoe 7.

Trek Roscoe 9 NSMB Andrew Major

The same goes for Roscoe 9. It shares the same frame as the Roscoe 7 in, yet another, interesting colour option but Trek could carve out a much better min-max build for this budget.

First Prize

Where does it end? How worthy of upgrades is the Roscoe 7 frame? At the end of the day the hardtails I prefer to ride, every day, have head angles around 2° slacker for the same fork travel, but actually a 9Point8 Slack-R headset and a 150mm fork would get me there. Actually, if Trek had just stuck with the ZS44/ZS56 headtubes they popularized there'd be abundant angleset options.

A couple of weeks into this review I'm very much enjoying the bike but at the same time still preferring to ride my own hardtails, I considered pitching Trek on just sending a Roscoe frame after I wrapped this piece. I'd commit to riding it exclusively for six months. After all, framesets are available separately for 950 CAD although only in boring black.

I'd throw in my Trickstuff bottom bracket, beg 9Point8 for a compatible headset to localize the geometry a bit more for our terrain, get an air spring to lower my Durolux to 150mm travel and otherwise port over wheels, brakes, and such from my personal rigs that I ride on the janky old-style black trails I prefer.

9point8 Slack-R Angleset NSMB AndrewM (2).JPG

With the absence of other choices, it's a great thing that the 9Point8 Slack-R angle-adjusting headset is a very good product.

9point8 Slack-R Angleset NSMB AndrewM (4).JPG

The installation is a bit more complicated than just pressing in an angleset (straight) and going for a ride. But it stayed tied once installed.

The logistics don't really make sense. I'm still grinding out LinkGlide miles on my Marinster Truck, my single-speed parts are on a Banshee Enigma review frame, and hopefully I'll be restarting my We Are One Arrival review shortly with a travel bump up to 170mm.

Despite this, a Roscoe could be my one bike, and I have both hands up to review the next-generation, assuming it follows the Fuel EX's evolution.

This review is big on ideas but light on riding feedback. That's the thing about reviewing hardtails. It climbs like a hardtail with good all-around geometry. It descends like a hardtail with good all-around geometry.

Trek Roscoe 7 NSMB Andrew Major (7)

The Roscoe comes in six sizes, which is awesome. I was happy on this large with a 31mm stem, but could have also run a medium-large or even a medium with a longer stem setup.

Trek Roscoe 7 NSMB Andrew Major (5)

The only change I'd make to the geometry is to slacken out the head tube angle by 2°. I'm happy with the Reach & Stack, and seated pedaling position. But Roscoe combines instant fun with a potential future payoff.

I've spent a decent amount of time scrolling, and I'd be keen to hear any pitches for a better package under 2K CAD. Especially when you factor in Trek's customer service reputation, generous after-sale support, and massive dealer network. Upgrade those brake calipers and rotors, throw in some CushCore inserts, and until a rider's progression curve in terms of trails and technique has them thinking that the Recon fork is really holding them back, the Roscoe 7 is going to be great.

It's adaptable, worthy of upgrades, it's a great riding bike, comes in six sizes, three good colour options, and at 1650 USD || 1880 CAD it sells for around the same investment as the average set of wheels we review at NSMB.com.

That's the Trek Roscoe 7, check it out.

Related Stories

Trending on NSMB

Comments

velocipedestrian
+5 Andrew Major Cr4w Lynx . bushtrucker Karl Fitzpatrick

>Proposing 7a, 7b, 7c 

I mean, you possibly should have a job as a product manager, but it would likely drive you mad.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+3 Velocipedestrian Karl Fitzpatrick DanL

When it comes to bikes, at least, I’m already well on my way - at this point the madness just spreads out, not in. 

And thank you - I think.

Reply

mhaager2
+5 Andrew Major Cr4w ClydeRide Karl Fitzpatrick Velocipedestrian

I really do love these articles.  Maybe I‘m cheap, but I still always look for the best bang for your buck, and have a hard time throwing cash at something unnecessarily. Also, particularly for kids bikes as they grow out of them, the min-max philosophy makes a ton of sense to me. Somewhat off topic, but have you ever been able to source spare parts for your Magura MT7 brakes? I actually got a chance to ride the Shore for 2 days a week ago (first time in like almost 20 years, it was so awesome) and broke the little plastic cover that sits over the reservoir on the master cylinder allowing it to leak on Pangor. Descending with only a front brake on that trail is terrifying btw. It’s so annoying, because it looks like a 5 cent piece, but I suspect you have to replace the entire master cylinder, and I hear they are hard to find and quite expensive in Canada. I love the MT7s, but the plastic master cylinder is  just such a weak link. I know you can do a Shigura setup, but I kinda wish someone made a aluminum version of the Magura master, or some kind of protective cover for the master cylinder.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+4 Lynx . ClydeRide trumpstinyhands Karl Fitzpatrick

Re. Magura brake, do you mean the little t-25 reservoir plug? In my experience they’re easy to get a hold of.

I always find myself pushing back against the narrative of broken Magura levers. Certainly I’ve replaced some for customers who’ve broken them, but turning wrenches, most the folks who’ve broken one have broken examples of other brakes too.

I wish their premium master cylinders (MT7 vs. MT5) were differentiated by a bearing in the master cylinder. Both my pairs of Magura brake masters have epic lever blade slop whereas my Dominion A4 brakes are still as tight as day 1 after three years.

Same goes for any premium brake actually - Formula, Shimano, TRP, etc. this is something SRAM gets very right. 

I don’t have any beef with anyone who spends as much as they want on their mountain bike. 20K Ohlins equipped We Are One Arrival? Nice. 

But I’m tired of the narrative that you “need” to ride some level of bike or some quiver of bikes to have fun mountain biking. It’s maybe linked to this entitlement folks have that they should be able to ride every feature of every trail every ride (it’s okay to walk your bike!) and pieces like this are my rebuttal. 

I have at least one more interesting modern geometry hardtail on the way to review this year - impressively min-maxed right out of the box - and I’m as stoked to write about that as any bike in the works for me to write about this year.

Reply

velocipedestrian
+5 Duncan Wright ClydeRide trumpstinyhands Andrew Major Karl Fitzpatrick

>But I’m tired of the narrative that you “need” to ride some level of bike or some quiver of bikes to have fun mountain biking. It’s maybe linked to this entitlement folks have that they should be able to ride every feature of every trail every ride (it’s okay to walk your bike!) and pieces like this are my rebuttal.  

Thank you. This narrative needs rebutting.

Reply

kurt-adams
+3 Andrew Major mnihiser Lynx .

Andrew, another great read, thanks! 

So I bought this bike in the boring frame colour. Truth be told it's my second bike and I absolutely love it. I'm reaching for it as much as my full suspension, which is really nice and more than five times the price 

Yes, I did do a few things to it, but honestly not much, less than I thought I would. What I did do without hesitation was change the brakes. I bought 4 piston Deore calipers. Kept levers and lines, very impressed. Rear tire got an insert, tossed in an Vittoria AiR Liner. I also exchanged the grips with some Ergon GE1 and the seat to a WTB Volt. Personal things.

Lastly put a pink donut stem cap on to match my daughters bike. 

I'll be honest I was skeptical of the front tire ,but it seems to be doing a great job. Drivetrain is very impressive. I would like to change the bars sooner than later.  I would love a new wheelset, but soon we start to defeat the purpose I bought this bike .... was to keep the cost down and buy a decent  tame geo hardtail. 

I will hang on to this bike for awhile, it's very fun!

Reply

AndrewMajor
+1 Kurt Adams

The XR4 tires are totally fine - really good for the price point of the Roscoe 7, in fact - although I'd much prefer the SE4. It's not until things get properly steep and greasy that I'd be worried about spending on a stickier option.

Glad you're enjoying your Roscoe!

Reply

andy-eunson
+2 Lynx . Andrew Major

So good that we can read about decent bikes that don’t cost a small fortune. The top of the line bike from 1983 when I worked at West Point cost around this and did not perform even close to this Trek. Might not be a fillet brazed Ritchey but I’d only ride on of those out of nostalgia. Like a model T Ford.

Reply

cooperquinn
+1 Timer

But let's note that $1650 is $4450 in today's dollars.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+2 DanL Andy Eunson

You can look at the value of a dollar a lot of different ways. The way I look at the Roscoe 7 - right or wrong - is the number of hours I would have had to toil at my first minimum wage jobs, living at home, to buy one. And holy crap do I get a lot more bike a lot faster.

Reply

andy-eunson
0

Very true. But wages were dick all then too. I think I was paid $5 per hour at West Point Cycles in 1983.

Reply

Lynx
+1 Andy Eunson

You were making a lot then Andy, because that's what I was being paid in 1988 as a in house graphic designer in Miami :-O

Reply

Lynx
+2 mnihiser Velocipedestrian

Another good one Andrew and for once, I think I can say I whole heartedly agree/like it in it's entirety, the only thing I might "differ on" is the HTA and tyres, but I know for you that's a strictly a NS/where you ride thing, but do agree that compared to an FS, HTA should be slacker on a similarly intended HT.

I'd also like to give a BIG round of applause for companies to stop with the BS "upgrades" that give no real performance gain, where it matters, LOVE your idea of the entire line having the Deore drivetrain and 4 pot Deore brakes, then put the extra $$ towards where it counts, the fork and wheels - CANNOT believe they consider going from 12spd Deore to NX an upgrade, SRAM low end stuff sucks ball$ compared to Shimano, it's only when you get above GX that it's any good/worth it, IMHO.

Oh and on the black=boring thing, not so much, you can always dress it up with coloured ano accent parts, cables, grips, hubs, skewers, valve caps, headset spacers and decals :-) Saying that, do love the colourway you got, really nice.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+1 ClydeRide

Hahaha, I was fishing with the black-is-boring comment. 

Toxik Harald told me once he was done painting bikes black. Too boring. Then the next time I’m in his shop he’s doing this Tri-bike in black-on-black-on-black. What the heck Harald?! Hahahaha. Man’s gotta eat, after he told me about his stance on black he had a bunch of requests for premium work in noir.

Reply

craw
+1 Andrew Major

Wow what an analysis.

Reply

AndrewMajor
0

Hahahaha. Coming from you I’m not sure if that’s “wow” good or “wow” wow. Either way - thanks for reading!

Reply

craw
+1 Andrew Major

No that's a real wow. Really. I mean it. Apparently I've cried wolf one too many times.

Reply

AndrewMajor
0

Hahahaha.

Reply

Kenny
+1 Skooks

I kinda get the cost savings of IS headsets on carbon frames. Not saying I like it, but I get why it is done. 

IS on an aluminum bike just seems crazy though and I would not buy one just on principle. It's already a piece of aluminum that gets welded to and machined on, just make it 44/56 already. 

Seems like senseless penny pinching. 

It's carbon, but I hold the same disdain for transition with the new smuggler. They make their big bikes with the awesome 56/56 straight head tube, medium bike as 44/56, but then going IS on what should be a model built for max versatility just seems so sad...

Reply

AndrewMajor
0

I’d argue that IS actually makes sense for carbon in that I’ve seen many picture of ZS headsets having been ripped out of the front of carbon frames. IS lets companies significantly increase the material there with significant weight gain or uglification. 

For aluminum frames it’s saving money on parts and/or production (no cups to press) and/or about telling a consistent story with different materials. 

My vote would also be for Roscoe to use a 44/56 ZS headtube/headset but I don’t think it takes away from the stellar value of this bike.

Reply

ClydeRide
+1 Andrew Major

Sorry, I’m a newb on this site. What are your top 3 or so favorite hardtails?

Reply

AndrewMajor
0

Hi Jerrod, thanks for engaging.

I could never just put together a list like that because it depends on so many factors - budget, build, application.

Riding blue trails, I don’t think you can beat the Roscoe for value at $1880 CAD, but if you want to crush harder lines and all your friends ride full suspension bikes then the Honzo ESD or Marin El Roy or Chromag Rootdown are all proper bruisers available with solid value builds.

Faster stuff with more of a GX/XT budget, the Santa Cruz Chameleon MX is a sweet bike. In the same vein I’m reviewing a Banshee Enigma frame that carries a more premium price tag, but is also a premium product.

Would love to be more helpful, with a budget and application (flowy blue trails? Janky black trails?) I’d be happy to help narrow down to a few rigs I think you could look at.

Reply

ClydeRide
+3 Andrew Major Pete Roggeman Velocipedestrian

Ah, the old "I can't answer you unless you ask a better/more specific question" ploy.  ;-)

I'm always looking for someone to unwittingly tell me what do.  But I'll admit it.  I don't really need anything.  If I did (oh noes, my bike has completely disintegrated!1!!!1!), I could probably sort out a plan pretty quick.  I ride around 100 times per year all over the west (from Arizona and Utah to British Columbia, and all points in between), and I'm currently well equipped with a nice gravel bike (Evil Chamois Hagar) and a nice mountain bike (Pivot Switchblade).  To suggest that I need to do anything more than maintain and keep fresh tires on them would be absurd.  But I'm a man.  And I have weaknesses.  And buying a bike would be fun.  But a ship with no destination is rudderless.

Do I (prematurely) replace my Switchblade?  Does 300 rides qualify me for a trade-in?  It's pretty far from worn out.  But that We Are One Arrival looks sexy, as do the Alchemy Arktos, Revel Rail 29, and a few others.

Do I keep my 'Blade and experiment with a shorter travel bike?  Hello Transition Smuggler, Pivot Trail 429, and others!

Do I buy a hardtail in the name of "something different" and "it's a backup"?  I haven't ridden a hardtail with geometry newer than 1998 vintage.  I'll bet they feel different than my old hardtail with the Marzocchi Bomber fork and angles steeper than El Capitan.  A steel Tyaughton would be a cool way to get in the game.  Or this Trek thingie.  Or a Kona.

The correct response to me is probably to tell me to get some help.  (Feel free!  Jump in the queue!)  But I'm always curious about people's gut reactions, so I'll take those too.

Reply

ClydeRide
0

P.S.  Who can tell me how to get my ClydeRide nom de plume to show up here on my article comments like it does on my forum posts?

Reply

AndrewMajor
+3 Tremeer023 Lynx . Velocipedestrian

Hahaha, what can I say? I hate spending other peoples’ money, so I like to be thorough.

Everyone who can afford two bike should have a hardtail. Because, to quote the great Jerry Willows, “Everything serious is always [full suspension]” and who wants to be serious all the time?

A modern long travel super slack hardtail is a ridiculous party in the woods, and something a bit less aggressive like a Chameleon or a Roscoe is a fun Swiss Army knife of every situation from the pump track to the bike packing adventure.

Put that chamois hanger to good use as a drying rack and hardtail it up!

Reply

Lynx
+1 ClydeRide

@jerrod, I absolutely, 100% agree with Andrew or anybody else who says that having a decent HT in your fleet if you can afford it is very worthwhile. A good HT can make those easier "blue" trails more fun and/or challenging if say you're taking someone out to introduce them, it makes those more tech trails that seem to have become "cake walks", not and well N+1 is always the answer.

Reply

ClydeRide
0

Totally makes sense to me.  FWIW, the Chamois Hagar gets ridden on lots of green and light blue trails.  :-)

Reply

skooks
+2 ClydeRide DanL

I can fully endorse the steel Tyaughton plan. I love mine. I got the frame on sale and built it up with spare parts so it wasn't that expensive. It's a very fun and capable bike.

Reply

DanL
+1 Skooks

Some pretty good deals going on with the Knolly fleet right now as well.

I ended up going full hardtail as 80% of my rides are under 2hr dadlaps and the HT makes it more spicy and fun. Yeah, I do miss something out the back when descending Severed but I just have to work it a little harder/differently and severed isn't in my 80%. Cushcore is a definite good thing in these usage cases.

Reply

pete@nsmb.com
+1 ClydeRide

1. Welcome, Jerrod! Please comment more often, that was entertaining.

2. n+1 or in your case, maybe n+2

3. I'll look into your account name situation and send you a DM or email.

Reply

ClydeRide
0

Thanks for the assist.

Reply

DogVet
+1 Andrew Major

Depends if your ankles and back will tolerate it, just remember AM climbs out of the saddle on most occasions (AFAIA) a feat which requires a good degree of fitness!!

Reply

AndrewMajor
0

That’s a pretty powerful exaggeration, hahaha.

I probably pedal out of my saddle more than most folks when I’m on a multi-speed bike, but I’m still mainly in the saddle when I’m climbing. 

Stretching, core work, good saddle, good fit - lots of ways to look after your back. I’d know, I’ve been managing back issues since I was hit by a car in December. I do think, on any bike, it’s important to be dynamic and get out of the saddle regularly.

On my single-speed I’m usually out of the saddle a lot on climbs. I don’t run a crazy big gear, but it’s big enough around here that it requires full body engagement to get through some uphill jank and on steeper trails.

Reply

eh-steve
+1 Andrew Major

No RM Growler? Last time I looked they were great bang for buck and a better geometry than the Roscoe (depending on use). 

Every time I see a Rootdown on the trails I smile. Too bad no Shimano builds though. I'm fine with a gx drivetrain but the g2 guides are lame on such a capable bike. Also the gx build is $$$. Give me a deore build. Cheaper than the NX build and better (imo).

Reply

AndrewMajor
+1 Stephen Hawkes

Growler used to be on my easy recommended list but differentiating which ones to buy Vs. skip is too much of an aside for an article or indirect comment.

[My opinion, not necessarily the opinion of NSMB.com] The Clark’s brakes that Rocky chose to spec for ‘22 are shit so those bikes - on clearout - are only a worthwhile investment if you’re going to bin the brakes upfront. The ‘23 bikes are much better but it takes some explaining as to why they’re likely a better value than buying last year’s clear out.

Rocky isn’t going to send every customer with Clark’s brakes a pair of Shimano or Tektro stoppers, a labour credit for installation at their local Rocky dealer, and a nice letter explaining it was Covid-caused decision, but maybe they should? [/monntooNSMB.com]

Aside from stoppers, I think the Growler is a great platform.

Reply

eh-steve
0

Oh god, somehow I missed the Clarks debacle. That's shameful. They couldn't even get some MT200s? Seems like China has those by the container load. Not a great brake by any means, but reliable, easy to maintain and easy to find parts for. IIRC the low end Fluid FS builds got some hot garbage too. Usually an easy recommendation for an entry level bike (Norco is usually quite sane about their builds).

Reply

Ripbro
+1 Andrew Major

Thanks for the breakdown in the various models. The roscoe 8 and 9 specs really don’t make any sense, especially the 8 with the NX ‘upgrade’.

Would definitely like to see companies specing deore then upgrading rubber, brakes, forks and wheels

Reply

AndrewMajor
+1 Lynx .

The conversation starts with a bike like the Roscoe but it goes from there, right? 

I’d be running premium brakes, tires, wheels, suspension etc. before I upgraded from a Deore drivetrain.

Reply

Reaper
+1 Andrew Major

Great review that. I sell a fair amount of Roscoe's to customers who are exceptionally happy with them. Usual upgrades they make are tyres (obviously), metal pads/rotors, grips and seats.

I've been tempted more often than not of purchasing one myself, they're that good.

However this is the new current gen model. Next gen model is 2-3 years away. Though 2024 spec models will be coming through soon (under embargo of course), word is some spec upgrades, changes are in store. Watch this space I guess...

Reply

UFO
+1 Andrew Major

The frame only option is appealing but I'm not sure $950 is a good value proposition. Conversely, getting the rest of the bike for less than $1000 more and gaining the advantage of choosing 2 additional colours is, in my books.

In my M/L size, the Roscoe's geometry is basically a match to a medium NS Eccentric ALU Evo I had -- it rode and fit great for me! That model has been around since 2019 with essentially unchanged geo, and retails at less than half of what the Roscoe frame does. For the extra $500 you do access Trek's vast dealer network/service, likely better fit and finish, an extra set of seat tube water bottle mounts, a couple of colour selections, and it's in stock.

Reply

AndrewMajor
0

I think most large brands - Kona maybe being an exception - have made it clear with their frame-only pricing that they’re in the business of selling complete bikes.

At least here it’s $950 F/O Vs. $1880 complete (~1/2). It’s crazier when we’re talking multi-thousand dollar machines and it’s only a grand difference between a frame and a basic complete.

Reply

mnihiser
0

I would think Marin frames are very reasonable $$.

Reply

AndrewMajor
0

Marin doesn’t offer as many of their bikes in a frame-only format as Kona does, but where they do the pricing is quite reasonable, I think.

For example a custom Marinster Truck (El Roy) build starts with a frame (includes headset, post clamp, axle) for $880 CAD. Pretty competitive in the aggressive steel hardtail category.

Reply

Lynx
+1 xtcphil

Yeah, Kona does some really good frame only prices and for the ones that are rigid, it's normally an even better deal as you basically get a rigid fork for the price of the frame and they always include spare/extra drop outs.

You know Andrew, that's a damn good price for that El Roy, but man oh man, that stupidly steep STA just absolutely rules it out for me.

Reply

mhaager2
0

I tend to break stuff….a lot, mostly in dumb slow speed crashes. I have a set of the cheap but good Magura MT30s on my fat bike, and I broke the master cylinder body where the lever blade attaches. And now that cover. No, not the bleed screw, its a rectangular cover roughly 1 inch or so by 0.5 inches that sits right over the rubber membrane of the reservoir. It has a tiny pinhole in it presumably for pressure equalization. 

I agree. I don’t take issue with people spending whatever they want. It’s just that for me personally, I have sort of a red line beyond which I just don‘t feel ok with spending more.

Reply

AndrewMajor
+1 GB

Ah, in that case, like Shimano master cylinders, in my experience, the only spare parts available are what’s been scavenged from broken examples. 

I always rob the brake tracks from inside busted/blown ServoWave masters, for example, because they’re really not hard to swap when someone has busted ones.

Reply

mhaager2
0

Reply

AndrewMajor
0

Yeah, just need to find someone who runs their levers really tight or who stripped out their bleed port cranking down the plug - some shop has that part ready to rob for nothing more than a thank you (and hopefully consideration of future business).

Reply

FullSend
0

I just don't know wheter I'd call a $1700 alloy hardtail good value when there's many great full-suspension bikes like the Norco Fluid FS or Marin Rift Zone to be had for roughly $2000.

Reply

AndrewMajor
0

Full suspension bikes have a higher cost - even significantly higher cost - of ownership, assuming they’re being properly maintained (otherwise, why bother), and the added costs of the frame/shock are offset elsewhere with component downgrades. 

I don’t have a hard cut off but with rare exceptions below a certain price hardtails are the better value.

Reply

Please log in to leave a comment.