rwalters profile

I can confidently say that the only reason I can get away with EXO sidewalls is because of the Cush Cores. Otherwise, I would probably be running full on DH casings.

I've pretty much always gone for the softest compound available - with or without inserts. I'm ok with swapping out my tires slightly more often if it means keeping all my teeth in my skull.

A great explanation of how Cush Cores ride Cam. I think it's best to look at tires/inserts/rims as a system that has to work together. For the conditions I ride in (north shore), I've found that carbon rims (NOBL TR38), Maxxis MaxxGrip with EXO sidewalls along with Cush Cores is the perfect combination. This combo results in a strong AF wheel, amazing grip and ride, and weight isn't too bad.

Maybe if I rode somewhere with sharper, loose rocks (i.e.: BC interior), I'd be more worried about slashed sidewalls.

Agreed. I've been at this so long, I don't even think about it. I don't stop spinning the pedals, but I let off just barely enough to give the chain a bit of slack.

I understand executing the "worst case scenario" when doing a product review - but do people actually shift gears while under drive load?? Am I the only one who religiously lets off the gas before shifting gears? I mean, the amount of time required is literally less than a second, and I've never thought to myself "I really wish I could continue pedaling through this shift."

I also just recently replaced my 5-year-old 11-speed cassette, so maybe I'm onto something?

Never, ever doubt the importance of good tires - especially for us riders in the PNW. Sticky tires make all the difference on wet roots and rocks, and can literally mean the difference between charging into a section, and getting off the bike and walking it. I never thought too much about tires, until I started trying different brands and compounds.

Posted by: Cheez1ts

Posted by: LoamtoHome

Already heard a particular user have gone through 3 CSU's....  high speed compression is also non existent.  Vorsprung has a comprehensive breakdown of the fork.  Boxxer at 180mm is the best option right now but it needs a lot of work to make it work...  like 9 tokens.  Hoping the new 38mm RS is better than the other options.

I have put very little thought into if this, but is this what would go into it?

• Buy a boxxer with desired offset (-$$$)

• Find a worn stanchion from one of the 2010+ boxxer models, you'll be sticking it 20mm deeper into the lowers anyway so the wear won't matter (-$)

• Find an air spring assembly from a Yari/Lyric (prevents you from needing to add any spacers below your boxxer's air spring) (-$)

• Drill a hole in the yari/lyric air spring (now it's not an air spring).

• Get a coil spring from the 2010+ Boxxers (-$)

• Assemble the coil and drilled air spring in your worn stanction

• Put that in your fork and drop your damper to match height

• Keep your original stanchion and air spring to re-assemble it correctly later for resale (+$$$)

Please do not use these as directions.

These are some seriously crazy thoughts on how to get a 180mm travel Boxxer! It's WAY easier than this. Here are the steps I took:

-Buy any air-sprung Boxxer 2019 or newer (I HIGHLY recommend getting one with the Charger 2.1 damper).

-Buy and install 180mm travel Debonair spring kit (it's cheap - like $60 and easy to install).

-Aaaaaand, you're done.

As stated above, I found getting the air spring right was a bit challenging. I'm not exactly sure why - I think when you drop the travel it does funny things to the air chamber volumes. Keep in mind that the Boxxer is ideally suited to a DH bike at 200mm travel, so getting it to work on an enduro bike at 180mm travel requires some tinkering. I experimented quite a bit, but have settled on 122psi with 9 tokens. This gives me fairly supple initial stroke with plenty of ramp-up and support. I'm running one click of HSC and quite a bit of LSC.

I'm really happy with the fork - only drawback I have found is that it's challenging to get a Boxxer-equipped trail bike into a North Shore car rack. Before I decided on the Boxxer, I briefly considered the Bartlett. Seeing the comments above, I'm glad I didn't go there.

Hardware store expanding spray foam sounds like a bad idea on so many levels.

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: RAHrider

I wasn't too keen on inserts until a friend of mine tried cushcore and told me that he liked them so much that if he had to give up something on his bike, the dropper would go before his inserts. I put off buying the $250 experiment for a month or two but after reading more, took the plunge. 

These stupid inserts are going to cost me a fortune by the time I upgrade all my bikes! They are so good I think I like The ride of my hardtail that has them better than my full sus without. 

So this thread is for people to sing the praises of cushcore and bemoan the cost. I have to say cushcore made my bike ride the way I've been trying to tune my suspension to feel for a decade!

do i need these on my gravel bike?

Probably for the gravel bike? 

In regards to the weight, before cc I kept getting Heavier and heavier tires for the sidewall support, not the traction. I think I am going to try lighter tires with the cushcore as I suspect this will still ride well. When you are running 2.5 Dd minions, it's pretty easy to find a 250 g lighter tire with equivalent traction. The lighter sidewalls will have far less rolling resistance and the bike will be the same weight with less rolling resistance. That's the theory at least....

Not sure why your friend tore out the cushcore on the trail. It's rare you can't plug a hole on the trail and it not, just ride the flat home. That's what cc is for.

For the record, I've been running EXO sidewalls with CC's for the better part of a year now with zero issues (and zero flats - knocks on wood). There is no way I could get away with EXO sidewalls without the CC's. For the most part, the CC hype is real. They do everything they claim to do. I sometimes have a hard time reconciling the weight penalty, but I would pretty much be running DH casings otherwise, so it's probably pretty close weight either way(?)

Also, after doing the install/removal a couple times, it's not that hard - so long as you have a really good set of tire levers and a trash can to support the wheel (as per the CC video). I carry a good assortment of tire plugs on my rides, in case of a flat, as I don't think I have the mental or physical strength to attempt a trailside removal of these things!

I personally didn't change my suspension settings at all when I installed cush cores.

Posted by: Znarf

@TAZ123: A tad less lowspeed compression, maybe a tad less rebound. Tire pressure and suspension settings are a tricky problem however.

In my experience, lowish tire pressure feels great for certain types of bumps - it carpets small chatter and hits. The same pressure (with inserts and no snakebites therefore) ridden in rough, rocky conditions can induce severe armpump.

Like with suspension, if you are too far into the travel most of the time and just riding along (too much sag maybe wrong suspension curve) you’ll run into the ramp up too much of the time and therefore the energy will not be dissipated in an even manner, but feel spikey to your arms and body.

Too high a tire pressure will let you bounce and struggle and make you tired fast, too.

Key in reducing rider fatigue seems to be a fitting ratio between the suspension curve of the tire AND the suspension AND the riders strength and dexterity regarding muscles.

Inserts can help with that, because they keep the tire from blowing through their „travel“ (which amounts to a couple of centimeters on a 2.4 tire...). Similar to a short tavel bike which is ridden really hard - with proper suspension settings it won’t be plush, but rideable.

Rim/wheel compliance can have a severe effect under these circumstances, too.

I can reproduce a loud clanging, tire to rim „bang“ event on my front wheel with a stiff 28h Newmen rim on a trail I ride often, but don‘t get the same BANG on either a DT Swiss EX1501 front wheel nor on a Notubes Flow MK3. Same bike, same tire, same pressure, same settings. Just the front wheel is swapped. No inserts. Minion DHF 2.5 WT @21PSI.

I want to nerd out (like you can tell from this post) and verify and reevaluate my findings with a FCK-Flats tire insert in the front tire. What will feel better? Compliant rim without insert or stiff rim with insert?

My (weak-sauce) wrists like extra chunky ESi grips (to filter small stuff) with not too low a tire pressure, firmer but still plush fork and single ply tires with big volume best.

And regarding tubes - I find ride quality AND ease of maintenance AND reliability of a proper tubeless setup is NEXT level compared to tubes. There are certain steps to follow to avoid hassle, for sure. But riding a proper mountain bike with tubes is leaving a lot of performance untouched. If your body can take the punishment of 40PSI and you are happy with the performance - all good for you!

Very well said. The difference between a given tire with and without inserts is much like an air sprung fork with and without bottomless tokens - tire inserts and tokens accomplish some of the same things. Tire insert allows you to run lower pressures, allowing more suppleness "off the top" (better traction, comfortable ride). A hard hit causes the air pressure inside the tire to ramp up quicker than in a tire without inserts. Of course, the insert isn't solid plastic, it's closed-cell foam, so there is some compression going on in the insert itself. Definitely takes some trial and error to get your settings right, but well worth it.

I don't know how you can run 40psi on a mountain bike. You definitely can't get away with that kind of thing with the conditions here. Inserts are definitely a pain in the ass to install, but after you've done the process once, it's a lot easier the next time. I'm running carbon rims and I feel a lot better rallying down chunder with the cush cores in. I once accidentally did an entire ride with ~17psi in the tires, and it was fine.

I think if you ride aggressively on savage trails, inserts make sense. I've had them on for a few months, and am sticking with them. And yeah - zero flats so far (knocks on wood). The only real downside that I've found is that your tire pressures will fluctuate much more with temperature changes. I think it's because the inserts greatly reduce the actual air volume in the tire. Starting on a cold morning at around 22psi, I've seen my tires get noticeably stiffer as the temperature increases.

I'm running cush cores, and have resigned myself to the fact that I'm never going to be able to remove/install a tire trailside. It's hard enough to do with proper tools and a garbage can at home. I do carry a decent selection of bacon strips and tire patches, but I don't even bother carrying a tube anymore - no point. And I'm not going to jinx my record by stating the number of flats I've had while running said inserts!! ;)

Yeah, I think that going with a different damper will be a last resort option for me, mainly due to expense. Going to shoot an email to fluid function and see if they have any ideas.

Anyone out there have any tips for setting up a newer generation Boxxer RC with 180mm travel? Most of the info I've found online applies to the 200mm versions, and the 200mm versions seem to get glowing reviews with rather simple setups (mind you, these reviews were all for the world cup version, the main difference being the Charger RC2 damper). I'm mainly having trouble getting the air spring right. My fork has a Charger RC damper and a Debonair 180mm spring. And yes, this Boxxer is mounted on an enduro bike. And yes, the same Boxxer that's not playing nicely with car racks!

A bit of back story: I'm coming off an older 180mm RCT3 Lyrik that also had a Debonair spring upgrade. That fork had the best spring I've ever used, but I hated the flex and creaky crowns. My settings in the Lyrik air spring were 2 tokens and about 78psi. I weigh 185 lbs. These settings gave me a decently supple initial stroke, great mid stroke support, and enough bottom out to resist all but the nastiest hits.

I picked up this Boxxer thinking it would be the same story, in a stiffer, burlier package, but I'm finding it really difficult to get the spring rate right. No matter what I do, the fork just feels way too linear. I started out with 3 tokens and 130psi. I found these settings pretty harsh off the top, and was still way too easy to bottom the fork out (too linear). After some experimentation, I'm now at 6 tokens (Rockshox says 6 is the max allowed - more on that later) and 130psi. Fork is still pretty harsh off the top, and resists bottoming a bit better, but still feels very linear to me. I am still bottoming the fork far more often than my old Lyrik.

Anyone have any ideas? Are my settings totally whack? People seem to love the WC model, so I wonder what I'm doing wrong. I'm wondering if running this fork at 180mm travel has taken it out of it's optimal operating scenario (even though the 180mm travel kit is a SRAM supplied part). I don't think it's the damper that's letting me down - I typically run my compression damping fairly open anyway.

One test I read on the WC had the settings at 2 tokens and 150psi, but I feel like this is going to be a super harsh initial stroke, and still too easy to bottom. Of course this test was at 200mm travel, so I'm not sure how that affects things.

On bottomless tokens: I have noticed that the spring side has room for more than 6 tokens. I'm not sure how many you could get in there, but it definitely has room for way more than 6 at full bottom out. My guess is the 6 token max. has more to do with max air pressure buildup than the physical room for the tokens. Worst case design scenario for this fork (according to Rockshox) is 6 tokens and 200psi. I feel like maybe I could get away with 7 or 8 tokens if I'm keeping the pressure around 120psi(??)

Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I just really want to copy the feeling of the Lyrik air spring.

Cheers!

Update: NSR was able to adjust the cradle enough to make my bike fit.