DSC05183-denizmerdano ibis hd6 graham
Long Term Review

2023 Ibis HD6

Photos Deniz Merdano
Reading time

The stork delivered this beautifully angulated carbon enduro bird, the Ibis HD6, during summer solstice days which seemingly last forever. Not a fledgling, it arrived ready to fly with a svelte weight (15kg/33lb with DH tires) and 165mm of DW-Link travel. Though I'm not one for maximum airtime (yet? fingers crossed), I've had a chance to pilot this mulleted HD6 somewhere north of 45 rides. You can take a look at the build spec and geometry shakedown here.  With versatility in spades, the HD6 isn't particularly over-biked on flatter trails, nor is it under-gunned through spicy gnar. Let’s dig in further to see where it err... soars.

Suspension and Setup

Fox 38 180mm

108 psi
HSC - 5 clicks
LSC - 4 clicks

HSR - 7 clicks
LSR - 12 clicks

Fox Float X2 230x65 (165mm travel)
220 psi + 1 more volume spacer for a total of 3
HSC - 6 clicks
LSC - 6 clicks
HSR - 4 clicks
LSR - 12 clicks


I ran higher air pressure in the rear than Ibis suggests for the X2, for roughly 28% sag. Ryan Walters is always talking about how amazing the X2 is when it's working properly, and I agree - it's buttery as hell, with plenty of support and a giant range of adjustability. Luckily, the 2024 revisions by Fox tout a hell of a lot more reliability than the previous X2.

I was fortunate to visit Fox HQ in Burnaby, BC to have the 2023 X2 converted to 2024 spec. This refit includes a new seal head and seals, revised damper body materials, and valving changes to mitigate oil aeration and detonation.

For the front end, I started with 112 psi in the 180mm Fox 38 Factory, settling on 108 psi. I didn't play with volume spacers because it ramped up nicely at the end stroke, much like the 38 on my personal bike with 3 volume spacers. In regards to the 180mm air spring, I wonder how different a 170mm fork would feel with the same pressure and damper settings? I can't say the extra 10mm travel felt drastically different than the handful of 170mm 38s I've ridden, but it sure can eat! I've also been running more LSC for more support while pushing into or off of features, with slightly less HSC to utilize the available travel.

Over time, the air spring side puked some dirty oil onto the Kashima stanchion. Fox replaced the seals, gave it a quick lower service, and installed new bushings. Perhaps the factory bushing tolerances varied from one side to the other, causing some binding? All was absolved, and back to butter.

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This planar slab is smooth but ends in a wheel-sized hole. The buttery 180mm Fox 38 steamrolls most compressions, allowing you to focus on the next oh-shit moment on the trail.

Climbing

I need not dig further into the bird analogies; insert any one of them here. Simply put, the HD6 climbs better than any bike I can recall. It might even be the best climbing 165mm travel bike out currently - though I’d need to ride more bikes to state that conclusively.

The 76.5° seat angle combined with 480mm reach makes for a comfortable climbing position. With 185mm of drop, the otherwise amazing Bike Yoke Revive seatpost was a smidge too short. I’d constantly adjust the post up for longer climbs and drop it before descents via multi-tool. Can everyone please spec the longest dropper available from here on out? A 180mm fork combined with 165mm travel in the rear, with mixed wheels doesn’t inspire wonderful climbing - on paper - however, numbers don’t tell the whole story.

DSC09897-denizmerdano ibis hd6 graham tolnai

Whether out of the saddle for climbs or spinning for hours, the DW-Link keeps 165mm of travel moving forward with ease. And hey! That's dirt on my pants, okaaay!

The efficient DW-Link suspension platform is married to a Fox X2, providing silky traction off the top of the stroke, leading into a predictable, not overly firm resistance when you're clawing for pedal strokes up punchy pitches. Square-edged bumps in choppy climbs carry through with forward momentum instead of lagging vertically. I learned the climb switch isn’t useless per se, but detracts from grip when needed, unless I was on a linear fire-road style climb. I’m only human, and switches don’t open themselves for the down, so I rarely used it.

I logged my longest rides with the toughest climbs of the summer aboard the HD6. In one instance, I unexpectedly motored up a climb which I’d only previously cleaned on an e-bike. My climbing fitness was high, which doesn’t say a hell of a lot. Anyway, a punchy, loose gravel pitch of varying grade, leads into an even-looser doubletrack, flanked in steep off-camber walls, rutted to shit in the bottom. If there’s any chance in cleaning this, you must traverse the rut multiple times to find the best line on the walls, careful not to spin out on the gravel. I motored through this pitch as if I’d cleaned it many times prior, no dabs, coming to a rest at the actual trailhead instead of hacking a lung like so many times before.

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Less brake, float more.

The Down

At 182cm (6 'merican feet) tall, I'm glad to be on the S3 size. Upon first glance at geometry numbers, I felt I could potentially size up to the S4. My personal ride has a wheelbase of 1250mm, though lately I've enjoyed the stability of bikes with a longer wheelbase, around 1275mm. Mentally zooming out, the HD6 strikes me as an agile corner blaster instead of a plow, and let's face it - we all can benefit from better cornering. Sizing up to the 1288mm wheelbase of the S4 would have significantly detracted from snap through turn. Besides, the reach would have been slightly too long for me.

The 435mm chaintstays combined with the 27.5" rear wheel encourage you to lean the HD6 over as much as you dare. The rear wheel whips around fantastically without feeling unstable. Precise rear wheel placement and Euro-turns through tight Shore tech felt nearly telepathic. I'd be keen to see how the HD6 would do with a 29" rear wheel, for smooth rolling through more treachery, but it would likely be at the expense of the party in the back. The rear end tracks nicely and isn’t overly stiff. I’m still half skeptical of the lower link utilizing bushings instead of bearings, but I’ve re-greased and re-torqued them once, so that worry has thus far been unfounded.

DSC05237-denizmerdano ibis hd6 graham

Nimble in the tight tech.

After riding many steep trails, I rearranged headset spacers 10mm higher to allow for maximum stem height. The 630mm stack height and 91mm head tube could dismay some taller folks, but I hadn't noticed. I ended up getting lazy in corners, not keeping my body position forward enough, so I switched them back down, feeling great again. Steeps hadn't suffered either, as I returned to pressuring the front wheel properly.

Staying off the brakes while straightlining through chunky chutes and runouts lets the big dog 180mm Fox 38 chow down, while the 165mm X2 remains quick and composed. The support of the X2 encourages you to lily-pad trail features, spryly picking up and popping off instead of merely plowing through them. Small bump compliance is just soft enough, leading to a lot of mid-stroke support with a progressive end stroke never ending in a harsh bottom out, even through janky drops with takeoffs steeper than the landing.

Tech Notes

The torque ranges on the suspension pivots range from 2NM on the lower link bushings to 35 NM on the linkage yoke. With that, you'll need at least two torque wrenches to facilitate proper torque spec. And don't tell me you don't use one; that's a surefire way to roach bearings (or in the HD6's case, bushings) far faster than usual.

The matte paintjob hardly shows any wear. A quick spit polish makes the HD6 look damn near new. The molded chainstay and shuttle guards have stayed in place and are well thought out, lord knows I've shuttled enough laps to find out.

The Lizard Skinz Charger Evo grips feature a larger diameter (32mm) than I prefer, but are very comfortable and have an anti-rotational grip pattern that prevents your hand from slipping. Think of shark skin but in both directions. Smart.

The 800mm wide Ibis Carbon Hi-Fi bar has aluminum thread-in end inserts, which allow you to trim the alloy instead of delicate carbon. Cut too much off? Simply replace the alloy end for a full-width bar. You can also choose to not use them at all, for a minimum width of 750mm. The Hi-Fi clamp diameter is 31.8mm, and is noticeably less jarring than a 35mm diameter handlebar (Other than new-school 35mm carbon bars by OneUp, PNW, etc).

The Shimano XT drivetrain again proves itself as a total workhorse. Yeah, I've smacked the derailleur and it's likely a bit bent, but it still shifts smoothly.

Shimano RT66 rotors - I appreciate the tech. Unfortunately, they're expensive, bend somewhat easily, and are hard to true due to the stiff alloy spider vs. a thicker, fully stainless rotor. I replaced the front with a 220mm RT64, which noticeably increased stopping power.

When the bird showed up, I switched the stock Maxxis MaxxTerra (for the dankness of the Shore) tires immediately for da stickiest of the icky, a rotating cast of DH tires. No biggie, we all have our preferences.

The Ibis S35 carbon rims have been flawless, other than an annihilated rear rim from a gigantic oversight of risk assessment on my part. I blindly dropped into a lengthy local slab, confident everything would be fine when the rear wheel struck the end of an exposed log in the transition, which was recently covered in dirt. A giant bang echoed through the forest as my 10-minute old Specialized Cannibal ripped off the bead, the rim pretzeling under my weight. I was lucky enough to stay upright and safely come to a stop. With this in mind folks, please inspect large features before sending, regardless of how good you feel. The kind folks at Ibis dispatched a new wheel immediately, their warranty covers carbon and aluminum rims from failure due to impact damage for 7 years.

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Final thoughts

I had a frickin’ blast on the Ibis HD6. It arrived as a bit of a sleeper, but quickly grew on me as I tried to ride it on everything. Big climbs with hike-a-bikes? Likely more suitable than your trail bike. Shuttles or bike park laps? Yes please. Tech or flow, it meshes a lively feel at slow speeds while keeping chill and composed at mach chicken. I think Ibis has smashed their enduro race bike goal target, though the everyday pilot doesn’t need to be half as skilled as EDR racers to extoll the capabilities.

The XT build of the HD6 is not cheap. Let's not forget about the added cost of the optional S35 MX carbon/Industry 9 wheels (a $1,900 upgrade), but this build leaves nothing to be desired, other than personal bling preferences and maybe a stickier set of tires.

Ibis HD6

Correction Notice: Graham's shock pressure for the Float X2 originally was listed in error at 175 psi, but has been changed to

Gdreej
Graham Driedger

Age - 38

Height - 182cm/6ft

Weight - 92kg/205lb

Ape Index - 1.035

Inseam - 32"/81cm

Mountain: Seymour

Bar Width - 780-800mm

Preferred Reach - 475-500mm

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Comments

mrbrett
+14 Cr4w Vik Banerjee Velocipedestrian SteveR BarryW GB cornedbeef hotlapz Timer humdishum kiksy Agleck7 vunugu Konrad utopic Joseph Crabtree

$7499 freedom dollars and Fox couldn’t successfully assemble a fork or shock at the factory! 

I’m not ok with this when I get new stuff but still begrudgingly perform a lower leg and air shaft service on a fork. Or send my three ride old shock in for a service. So maybe I am more ok than I think?

Is there any other product in that price range that needs a service or multiple services out of the box or in the first month? If I got a new blender and the standard practice was to re solder the connections inside before making a smoothie if just return it.

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Gdreej
+2 Cr4w Tadpoledancer Suns_PSD trioofchaos

Whoa, standby. The fork issue happened 2mo into heavy testing, so that's okay. 

Before the HD6 arrived, I'd chatted with the Ibis folks to proactively avoid detonation of the X2. While I can't speak as to how Fox handles every X2 issue from 2021-2023, I know many people who have sent their X2 in for 2024 spec refit under warranty when the sloshing begins.

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agleck7
+7 Andy Eunson mrbrett vunugu trioofchaos utopic Konrad WhatsUpCountry

I don’t think fork seals should blow after 2 months

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Gdreej
0

I don't either. After chatting with a few mechanic friends, they have noticed bushing issues from varying fork brands in the sense that they'd need to be reamed for proper function. If one leg bushing is far tighter than the other, this will cause binding and potentially compromise the seals. Considering Fox replaced bushings on the 38 alongside the lower service (and this issue hasn't came up since), this is the likely cause.

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just6979
0

Correlation is not causation. How exactly would a binding bushing effect the seals?

"The fork issue happened 2mo into heavy testing, so that's okay."

No, it's not really "okay". Seals should not normally "puke oil" after 2 months. Unless "heavy testing" consists of actual all-day-every-day riding for those months to accumulate multiple hundreds of hours while also skipping a couple few scheduled maintenances. At that point it's perhaps "okay" to expect failure, but only because they were abused. Did you abuse them in those 2 months? Or just use heavily within the recommended maintenance window?

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mrbrett
+1 Hardlylikely utopic LDG

“Before the HD6 arrived, I'd chatted with the Ibis folks to proactively avoid detonation of the X2. ”

So, in fact it’s worse than I suggested - this bike was in the seedling phases of getting fixed before it even arrived

I can’t think of a company like Fox fessing up to questionable product reliability and proactively running ads and offering a service recall, like “sorry we made a stinker, bring us your X2 before it explodes and we will upgrade the guts - no questions asked!”  In your article it was Ibis that did the right thing and started that, and not even Fox. Would they have done that for an average consumer?

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mammal
0

"Would they have done that for an average consumer?". 

According to chat on forums for Ibis bikes, yes, concerned customers have been getting the older units upgraded after receiving their new bikes. At least I've witnessed a few examples of this, but I can't confirm if it's 100% the case.

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Gdreej
0

The 2021-2023 X2 issues are unfortunately well known. Niels Van Kampenhout experienced X2 issues with his Giant Reign test. I certainly requested the shock to be swapped for a 2024 X2, as any issues would have significantly slowed down any bike testing. Yeah, we're privileged that this request is handled quickly (and that Fox Canada is a half-hour drive from NSMB headquarters).

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GrundleJ
+1 Graham Driedger

2 months isn't what I would consider okay, but if it was just seals and a lower service then I'd give Fox the benefit on that.  Replacing bushings is a more serious repair that shouldn't happen until a couple thousand hours/years of use.   I've worn out two Fox 34s, both after just two years of 2000-2500 mile riding, so having heavy bushing wear that quickly doesn't seem uncommon in my experience with Fox.

Nice writeup, btw.  Sounds like a fun bike to pedal around, hopefully more coasting than pedaling.

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kperras
+10 Graham Driedger Andrew Major Niels van Kampenhout Jerry Willows Pete Roggeman Dan Mammal vunugu Konrad Pepe

Great review Graham, might be your best one yet. Same goes for Deniz's accompanying photo set.

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Gdreej
+1 Dan

Much appreciated Ken. Hope I can stay close to your rear wheel in the near future.

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denomerdano
+3 Graham Driedger Dan Konrad

Thanks Ken! Would love to shoot on a dank day with you.

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JSW07
+8 Velocipedestrian shenzhe Vik Banerjee BarryW Graham Driedger Andy Eunson vunugu ackshunW

The more I ride bikes and try different bikes it becomes more and more apparent to me that how somebody experiences a bike is heavily influenced by Sizing. If the tester is riding a bike that is on the “smaller size” for them the bike will most likely review as “poppy, playful, great in the corners…”, if the bike is on the bigger side for them, the bike will review as “stable, confidence inspiring…”. I don’t think this is talked about enough and I think can skew the review in a big way. Obviously, there are other factors involved I.e. linkage design, kinematics, geo, BUT generally speaking IMHO sizing is a very underestimated factor in the overall experience had on a particular bike.

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Gdreej
0

I feel what you're saying about sizing in spades. If the reach numbers weren't out of my ballpark on the S4, it would have been fine. My upper range for reach comfort is 500mm, the S4 coming in at 515mm, so it would have skewed the review completely. 

It's interesting to see racers who decide to downsize. I'm pretty damn sure Remi Gauvin should ride the large sized RM Altitude,here's a video of his back-and-forth between the medium and large. Yeah, he's a pro and fast as F, and famously EDR racers size down. I don't think I sized down on the HD6 at all, I'm squarely in the middle for the S3 sizing.

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JSW07
+1 Suns_PSD

I hear you on the reach being to long which would make it even more interesting to hear your feedback on what the S3 felt like compared to the S4, THAT would be an extremely interesting article. I am 5’9 and I’m on the small side for the S3, I have typically ridden bikes with a 450-460 reach and when I rode the S3 HD6 it was eye opening. Who would have thought I could ride a 480 reach? I will be running my S3 HD6 with a 40-35mm stem, should help to shorten the cockpit while maintaining the long wheelbase for the chunky stuff.

As far as Remi goes, I saw that video as well and was very surprised at his choice to run a Large.  Not sure why the EDR guys size down as you would think the stability at speed would be desirable?!

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Gdreej
+2 BarryW vunugu

I'd love to do a head-to-head with the S4. A steeper SA plays makes bikes feel much shorter than reach suggests, particularly in while in the saddle. The short stem will definitely help you. 

It goes without saying, EDR folks are incredible bicycle tamers and can wrangle for stability (within reason) but need more agility in tight terrain. I'm not going to paint them all with that brush, but this is the theme I've noticed.

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JSW07
+1 Graham Driedger

I think one factor that people tend to use in the decision to size up or down is, what is currently the “trend”.

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Fat_Tony_NJ
+5 Graham Driedger Mammal bishopsmike gubbinalia cornedbeef

I have a Ripley, and the DW link makes me feel like a better climber than I really am.

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Gdreej
0

It's astonishingly good!

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mammal
+2 Graham Driedger cornedbeef

Yep, I had a Ripmo AF, and I haven't had a better peddling suspension bike. I even long-shocked it for more travel, jamming a big coil shock without a climb switch in there, and ended up climbing even better, with a bit more compliance when climbing rough terrain. I wouldn't say they nailed the descending characteristics on that frame, but man, it was literally a mountain goat.

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Gdreej
0

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vhdh666
0

what shock lemgth do you run?

did you change something else?

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mammal
0

8.5×2.5 shock with a 2mm offset bushing in the rear eyelet. It's not my current ride any longer, but it was successful in adding some extra useful travel to the RAF frame.

Reply

dano91
+4 Graham Driedger dhr999 roil Cr4w

I recently moved to a 180mm 38 from 170…. I think my thoughts are that I have to compromise less with the 180 in terms of support vs sensitivity. The fork naturally rides a bit higher and I can tone down my compression a few clicks without any noticeable downsides. I’m the same weight as you and are settings are very similar. 

This looks like a very good bike but I think taller riders should steer clear.. super long reach with a short rear end,  low stack and short head tube in the XL.   ..

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Gdreej
0

You're right about having less of a compromise running the 38 at 180mm. There are a few bicycle surgeons who specialize in the steeps, (such as Steve Vanderhoek) who employ this to sit higher in the travel with more midstroke support. I don't notice a downside with the 180mm travel, nor do I feel like it's imbalanced with 165mm in the back. 

I can't comment on taller riders steering clear of XL/XXL sizing. Yeah, there are proportional differences to be observed here that tall folks could disagree with. Again, you can't judge a bike merely by its numbers, you have to take that MF'er out for a ride. Which, unfortunately, is difficult to do without buying. Another dual-link bike, the WAO arrival, has a low stack height which doesn't seem to impede lanky folks like our very own Cam McRae.

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JSW07
+1 Graham Driedger

I believe one factor in Ibis going with the 180mm fork was geo. Imagine if the bike came with a 170mm fork which would drop the front end lowering the already low stack height and increase the reach making the bike a complete sled for anybody on pretty much any given size.

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roil
+4 Cr4w Andy Eunson dhr999 Graham Driedger

Saturday night live had one of their better skits in recent memory last week regarding metric vs imperial.

https://youtu.be/JYqfVE-fykk?si=6kLCOpOnUADnOlLP

Great article. I want to like this bike but I can't get into brands that aren't sizing chainstays and stack proportionately, especially at this price point. It just feels lazy on the brand's part, and I mean real proportional chainstays, not Yeti's moving it 2mm per size and calling it a day.

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craw
+1 roil

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Jotegir
+10 Vik Banerjee LWK Morgan Heater Cr4w Niels van Kampenhout BarryW DadStillRides dave_f Graham Driedger humdishum

To each their own, I want the option to have an L/Xl with short stays to keep the total wheelbase down and if it means they aren't proportionate, that's fine. If literally ALL brands stopped being "lazy" and started doing proportionate chainstays (read: long af on xl 29ers), I'd be shit out of luck.

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xy9ine
+9 Vik Banerjee Jotegir Cr4w Velocipedestrian Tadpoledancer BarryW Graham Driedger humdishum vunugu

building a single swingarm with a flip chip dropout seems like such an obvious solution to cover the range of sizes / user preferences, i'm surprised they're not more prevalent.

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just6979
+2 Andreas Macke Graham Driedger

Because that changes the kinematics, possibly significantly. The relationship of axles and pivots is hugely important, such that I recall Ibis once mentioning that they used to tell DW how they wanted the suspension to feel and he would send back just a few key data points: axle locations, BB, pivots, etc; and let Roxy design the rest of the bike around those.

It's a trade-off between keeping the suspension consistent between sizes and keeping the front-center to rear-center ratios (turning feel, front-rear balance) consistent.

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michel77
0

Are you saying that's the (likely) reason Ibis doesn't offer size-specific, different length chainstays?  Or that flip chip dropouts affect the axle to pivot relationship in a different way compared to a size-specific swingarm?

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just6979
+1 Michel Vis

Yes and yes.

If the whole rear is a different mold, the rear pivot locations can be moved (as well as on the front molds which currently has identical pivots locations for all sizes to match the single rear) to tune the suspension to suit that longer chain-stay length.

Or perhaps they could just move the pivots in the front triangle's already size-specific molds, ala Santa Cruz to keep fairly consistent suspension along with some rear-center proportionality. Still better than a flip-chip.

JSW07
0 BarryW DadStillRides

This comment has been removed.

BenHD
+3 Deniz Merdano Graham Driedger Dan

This is a very nicely written review. Well done! Deniz‘ pictures are always beautiful. Good work you two!

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bryce-borlick
+3 Graham Driedger Deniz Merdano Dan

I clicked for the pics. I like the pics. Lots more pics please.

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denomerdano
+2 Dan Konrad

Blushing. Thanks Bryce!

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Gdreej
0

Well, let's get for a ride again and make some more then eh!

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Cambo
+1 Graham Driedger

Thanks for the review Graham! I’m quite surprised by your suspension settings! You seem to be running the rear shock significantly lower than the recommended settings on the Ibis site, and the fork quite a bit stiffer. How do you like these settings?

I’m a Calgary based Ibis dealer, and have been on an HD6 for a couple months, and have settled on settings that are close to Ibis’ setup chart with 83psi in the fork, and 190psi in the shock to support my 185 weight (with gear). Maybe our suspension settings have more to do with where we ride than personal tastes…

I tried the fork setting recommended by fox (on fork leg and on fox site) but found them a little high for the 180 fork. I’ve typically liked the fox recommended settings on other 170 fox 38s but the 180 38 on this bike is a bit of a different beast in my opinion…

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pete@nsmb.com
+1 Graham Driedger

Hi Cambo, I won't speak for Graham of course, but regarding the shock, that extra spacer is for sure making up part of the difference. On the fork side, I can tell you that Graham loves the steep stuff and that may indeed be the reason for the difference in setup.

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Gdreej
0

Cambo! Glad you're digging the HD6. It seems the numbers typed were wrong on the shock, I'm definitely running 220 PSI, and I weigh 93kg/205lb. 

I think it's worth noting setup charts are merely guidelines for folks to get acquaintaned with a general feel, then bracket their suspension to hone in on what they'd like it to achieve. 

The 180mm 38 is a slightly different, and I know a few local riders who run it at 180mm to stand up more and offer more mid-stroke support, as @dano91 below mentions

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Cambo
+1 Graham Driedger

Good point Pete. It seems that the pinkbike folks have  similar preferences to Graham. Perhaps the stiffer fork setup balances out the geo or dynamic fore/aft balance. I’m eager to play with my settings a little bit more…

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Gdreej
0

This comment has been removed.

brewtus
+1 Graham Driedger

Great review Graham. You mentioned in your first ride article that the geo is very similar to the MX Altitude (looks almost identical with a -1 angleset to me). After living with it for a while how does the Ibis compare to the Rocky?

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Gdreej
0

Similar-ish geo, the biggest difference is the CS length. I run the long/449mm on the Altitude, feeling like you're more in the middle of the bike. Ibis CS at 435mm feels more zippy, able to whip the rear end around faster, weight bias slightly rearward. 

I switched my RM to short/439mm trying to see if it'd be similar to the Ibis, but found that detracts from stability at speed. Back to long it went. The wheelbase ends up being shorter at 1238mm vs. the HD6 at 1256. Doesn't sound like a lot, but I certainly feel it.

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Ceecee
+1 Graham Driedger

They mean telekinetic. Telepathy is sense-less

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gdharries
+1 Graham Driedger

Okay, so I'm old(er) but....what's a Euro Turn?

I know about a Euro Carve in snowboarding and Euro Step in basketball, but this Euro Turn is new to me.

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just6979
+3 BarryW Graham Driedger Dan

I think it means a nose-turn/endo-turn. 

Which I'm not sure why having a mullet would help there... Usual bonus of a mullet re: turns is that, when on the ground, it naturally cuts the tighter arc that the rear wheel always takes anyway.

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Gdreej
+2 Dan Justin White

More the 435mm chainstays that help with the Euro-turns. 

Geof, indeed Justin is right - I'm talking about a nose-pivot turn as riders would utilize to clean tight switchbacks on alpine cattle/hiking trails.

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the-prophet
+1 FlipSide

That 55mm chain line wasn't sad on the climbs? The 52mm chain lines with 12 speed cassettes are pretty bad already, can't imagine pushing it out 3mm more.

WAO has the right idea with super boost rear + boost chain line.

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BarryW
-2 Joseph Crabtree dhr999

So I'm curious about this statement Graham: "I’m still half skeptical of the lower link utilizing bushings instead of bearings, but I’ve re-greased and re-torqued them once, so that worry has thus far been unfounded."

For only 45ish rides that's not maintenence that should need to be done. Especially on a brand new bike from a boutique builder.  an you say why you regreased it after (I'm assuming less than the total 45 rides) while riding through the summer?

Also, it's great rhry got you a new wheel, but to completely smoke one within a short period of riding? Makes me happy to ride aluminum rims.

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just6979
-1 dhr999

You would have smoked ANY rim, based on the description of the hit.

That's one of the nice thing about carbon rims: I you manage to break a good one, you very likely would have also/already broken an alloy one beyond any kind of bending back into shape.

Yes, sometimes (rarely really, think about the quantity of OEM carbon rim specs lately) they just crack seemingly randomly or on small impacts, and sometimes alloy rims just fold or crack or pull spokes out or seams separate; such is life.

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Gdreej
+1 BarryW

Bushings are new to me. They don't have a great track record for rear linkage. Friends who have other Ibis models seem to be the outlier. You think you'd not have to re-torque a suspension pivot bolt after 45 rides, from new? 

When I checked the torque spec, I wanted to see how everything went together, and I threw some grease in there while I was at it - standard practice. 

As for the wheel, maybe it would have survived with an insert. A 445g carbon trail rim, with a 27psi DH tire under a 205lb person on a huge compression at high speeds, occasionally shit happens. I'm not going to recount the story but you could scroll up and take a look, I don't feel like this is a weak wheel by any means, most alloy rims, save a DT 541, would likely go in the bin after this too.

I'm fortunate enough that my short periods of riding are 3-7hr days on the bike with gratuitous shuttles - your miles may vary.

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FlipSide
0

Everything sounds good on this bike, except the lower pivot bushing. I tends to keep my bike for a long time (like typically about 7 years) and I'd hate have a bike with a sloppy swingarm in a few years, and no way to source replacement bushings.

At what interval should the bushings be replaced and are they proprietary to Ibis?

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Gdreej
+3 Dan FlipSide BarryW

Ibis has a lifetime bushing replacement warranty, so that's the short answer.

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FlipSide
+1 Graham Driedger

Cool! Thanks!

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mammal
+1 FlipSide

I had a Ripmo AF, with almost identical Lower Link to the HD6. That particular pivot bushing, links and hardware are really well designed, they keep crap out, and wear very slowly. In 3 and a half seasons, it never became loose, and only needed regreasing a couple times a season. I only replaced them because they're free and I'm selling the frame.

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Corey7172
0

I have a 2020 ibis HD5 (now my son’s) and now a HD6.  

The bushings have no issues.  Even with dust of the southwest.  I have an extra on hand, but haven’t needed them on the HD5 in 3+ years.  Just clean, little layer of grease, and assemble 1x/yr.  

Bearings are not needed.  And I’m now a believer of bushings in this application.

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syncro
-2 dhr999 Graham Driedger

So here's what's bound to be an unpopular question. 

Considering we're hot on the heels of Dave's Scofflaws article and lively discussion last week, does it make sense to run a bike review article that features photos of the rider going off trail and cutting fresh "loamer" lines?

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denomerdano
+3 Matt Cusanelli Jerry Willows Graham Driedger

#freetheloamers

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Gdreej
+1 Deniz Merdano Mammal Mark

Off trail? Pray tell.

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LoamtoHome
+4 Deniz Merdano Mammal Jotegir Graham Driedger

Cypress so hot right now....

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just6979
-3 Graham Driedger Andrew Major Joseph Crabtree BarryW dhr999

"And don't tell me you don't use one; that's a surefire way to roach bearings (or in the HD6's case, bushings) far faster than usual."

Your gear editor doesn't use one, and insists they do more damage than good.

Also, mullet FTW! This was already on my shortlist for "next", and probably moved up after this read.

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pete@nsmb.com
+3 Graham Driedger BarryW Konrad

For most people in most situations, I think we can agree a torque wrench is a good idea when we're talking about sensitive areas like bearings and - at least for the less experienced - things like stem bolts. One writer's opinion certainly doesn't mean that we overall would recommend against using one.

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AndrewMajor
+8 dhr999 Kenneth Perras Cr4w Cooper Quinn Graham Driedger BarryW Dan humdishum

Your gear editor doesn't use one, and insists they do more damage than good.

Assuming you’re referring to me, this is inaccurate. I work as a bike mechanic and regularly use a torque wrench. 

Relying on a torque wrench absent from secondary checks is dangerous and in my work I regularly see throttling lock-on grips and dangerously loose stem & bar interfaces that have been torqued to recommended specs. 

It’s my opinion that more people put themselves in danger by relying on torque wrenches than not. For example, I see significantly more under-tightened stems and grips than overtightened ones.

------

*Edit:

SRAM just issued a significant recall of brifters over exactly this issue: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sram-set-to-issue-recall-of-aftermarket-12-speed-road-shifters/

Who torques down brifters to spec and then doesn't physically check that they're actually tight? Apparently a lot of people.

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kperras
+6 Andrew Major Cooper Quinn Niels van Kampenhout arno Dan BarryW

Fasten with Torque wrench, final check with hand.

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cooperquinn
+16 LWK Cr4w Neil Carnegie Graham Driedger Kenneth Perras Niels van Kampenhout Velocipedestrian Ride.DMC Vik Banerjee BarryW Konrad Matt Cusanelli Jerry Willows Dan Spencer Nelson Mike Rock Smith

Tighten till it strips, back 1/4 turn.

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syncro
+1 Dan BarryW dhr999

If it jams, force it. If it breaks then it needed replacing anyway.

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monsieurgage
0

I second this, maybe digital torque wrenches are more accurate but my simple analog has a margin of error and after having my pivot bearings loosening I always do a double check.

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pete@nsmb.com
+1 Dan

It's not just the torque wrench that could be mis-calibrated, although that's obviously important. You've also got to watch out for tolerance issues between things like bar diameters (stem and grip collar interfaces) and clamps (stem bore radii, frame bearing seats). 

We need some kind of proverb to cover this, preferably in the form of a haiku.

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dan
+3 BarryW Konrad James Anderson

Calibrating torque,

Precision in every turn,

Tools of strength and grace.

Jotegir
+2 Graham Driedger BarryW

The first step when checking a junior tech's work was always pulling the bike out of the stand and seeing what we could reef on and get to spin or fall off the bike. The customer isn't going to care about perfect test ride shifting if the seat goes sideways and the brake lever flops down first time they ride it.

My favourites were usually "oops, I got the qr wheel out just by pulling!" Or yes, the as mentioned sideways handlebar from stem bolts.

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velocipedestrian
+3 BarryW Jotegir Hardlylikely

20+ years later, and I still remember the sense of shame when my boss did this to me. 

Traumatise those trainees, it'll learn 'em quick!

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rotorburn
+1 Dan

I had bike shops mess that up on me, one time my quill stem came completely off the bike, right in front of traffic.

The best was when the “whiz kid” mechanic used gear cables on my brakes. I’m lucky they snapped on the flats, i could have died in the wrong place!

Now i prefer to be the one to make the dumb mistakes. At least I assume I’ll screw up and thus triple check my work.

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just6979
0

"I’ve seen all kinds of bike parts under and overtightened thanks to the use of torque wrenches. Most folks would be better off if they ignored bicycle torque specs in most cases."

I may have exaggerated with "doesn't use one", but you definitely said they do more harm than good, it's right there.

I wouldn't skip (or recommend ignoring) use of my torque wrench if something didn't perform as expected at the correct torque*, I instead wouldn't buy or use those products that come with such terrible tolerances that the indicated torque is wildly appropriate. If a clamp-on grip slips off easily at 2.5nm indicated on the 3mm bolt, I'm bring it back as defective, not slamming the bolt down until it stops slipping, and then stripping it when trying to remove in 2 years when it's time to swap out grips, and the bolt has seized since it got terribly distorted when it got ham-fisted to stop the slipping.

*(or close: assuming the wrench is fairly accurate, a small fraction more or less indicated torque on some parts would be acceptable considering tolerances in both parts and wrench. But, say, an easily slipping stem when torqued within 10-15% of recommended is not a "tolerance", that's a bad product).

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