Beggars Would Ride
Optical Delusions
The email was a bit unexpected, but it contained questions that needed answers. Did I want flat mounts or IS mounts? UDH or not? Swinger dropouts or fixed? Did I intend to run a front derailleur? What was I thinking for drivetrain and brakes? Was I going to still want cables, or was this gonna be a battery eater? Had I decided on a fork offset?
These all seemed like worthy questions, but sitting there, reading that email, I was overcome with a wave of what can best be described as grumpy confusion.
I have been in the queue of this particular craftsman for one of his frames for over a year, and to be honest, had forgotten about the substantial deposit I laid down. That deposit represented a commitment to an even more substantial cash outlay when the frame is complete, to be followed by yet more conversion of money into pieces of metal and plastic that would eventually break or wear out. Given that this is all going to cost a whole wheelbarrow full of cash before it turns into a steel gravel bike, I had to perform a careful dance inside my head in order to avoid stepping on too many of the “what were you thinking” landmines that I placed in there some time ago. I mean, I could buy a very nice carbon full suspension bike for this. Or a very nice, slightly used Husqvarna 701. Or a clean squarebody Chevrolet pickup. Or a whole lot of guns (I mean, that seems to be what everyone else is doing back where I have chosen to call home…).
But this is as much art as it is machinery, and I already have a squarebody Chevrolet, and I have committed to buying a nice steel bike made by someone I know every half decade until the day I die. I have let too many beautiful bikes made by good friends slip away, and am now feeling like investing in rideable art when I can afford to do so, for a whole lot of reasons that are best not gone into here. Not right now, anyway. So, best not to look at the dollar signs and try instead to focus on the questions that need to be answered. This is turning out to be harder to do than I thought it would be, because I am struggling with the acceptable answers to most of them.
For someone who is supposed to be on top of what is going on in the bike industry, someone who should be discerning because it’s part of the damn job description, I feel like I have hit a component choice fatigue wall. My feelings these days could be summed up in one sentence as: “Everything works well enough, but it’s all so ugly.”
We've all been looking at these things for a few years now, and so we've all become accustomed to the sight of them. But like the old movie line goes; "callin' it your job still don't make it right, boss"...
The mountain bike I have been riding for six months now shifts with batteries, and it is still working just fine. The slight shift lag is not something I am really stoked on, but it has not changed one teeny bit since new. I toss the battery on the charger once a week, and don’t really think about it otherwise. That is pretty damn impressive. While I might appreciate the feel and dynamic of a really clean cable operated derailleur, I will absolutely admit that it would not operate with the consistency of the battery gig, nor would it suffer such casual negligence with anywhere near the tolerance of this pile of parts. It works. It works really well. I cannot fault the performance, or the reliability. But dear lord it is one of the ugliest drivetrains ever conceived.
Fine, but this is going to be a gravel bike (and before anyone starts in on the jokes, remember, I am old. Gravel and Geezers go together like early onset dementia and sudden bursts of irrational behavior), and the battery powered shifty bits made by SRAM are slightly less overtly huge than their mountain bike versions. Slightly. The battery powered gravel things that Shimano makes are also slightly less massive than their mountain bike things, but still, between derailleur cages that look like they got stolen off someone’s Transformer toy, those dinner plate sized cassette cogs, and all that black plastic, neither brand wins any beauty pageants here.
And it’s not just the battery powered stuff. In order to accommodate a huge gear range and only run one chainring, cassettes are the sizes they are, and derailleurs need to be the size they are to make it all work. I get that. But I do not like it.
I am speaking almost entirely about drivetrains here; cassettes, derailleurs, cranks and chainrings, and whatever device is used at the handlebars. Maybe I am being needlessly harsh here, but brakes seem to be doing a better job overall of trying to find some way of melding ergonomic need, fade-resistant stopping power and not looking like someone duct taped a cinder block to the dropouts.
I feel like drivetrain aesthetics have been conveniently bypassed. Function over form, fair enough. As far as mountain bikes are concerned, I can understand that, since the dynamics of modern riding and the demands that are placed on drivetrains as a result of all that suspension and all that gravity and all that speed and impact are not easily appeased. Single chainrings make sense, they are solidly a better choice when it comes to suspension behavior, chain retention, and packaging. Therefore, we need those 10-52t dinner plates on our rear wheels. And that dictates those honking big dangly bits and all the overbuilt mechanics required to keep them from flailing themselves to pieces while trying to process shifts on 170mm travel bikes that are getting hammered through rock gardens and smashed into G-outs. Like I said, I get it. I can understand it, even if the aesthetics make me sad.
But why, then, do gravel bike components have to get tarred with the same ugly brush? By comparison, gravel bikes don’t have much – in terms of the violence visited upon drivetrains – to worry about at all. They could easily be less obtrusive, designed to stylistically fit more cohesively on the bikes that wear them. Meanwhile on the other side of the design fence, is the current performance zeitgeist surrounding modern mountain bike componentry even attempting to reconcile some element of form in the face of function?
Ahhhh. 137 grams of Fabergé egg level shifting fragility and aesthetic perfection. Less than one third the weight of that GX AXS lump in the previous pic. Best not try to stand on it, though.
The Huret Jubilee, man, that was a thing of beauty. Possibly the most beautiful rear derailleur ever made. It would look amazing on this bike I’m getting built. But beautiful as it was, the Jubilee was so minimalist that it had a limited gear range and a reputation for fragility. The almost as pretty long cage DuoPar had the range to shift up to 36t freewheels AND enough wrap to run a triple up front, but if you mangled a shift with one it was about as forgiving as a crystal champagne glass at a frat party. But damn, they looked the part. These were the kind of things you’d want to hang from a custom painted piece of filet brazed metalwork.
On a more practical level, pay heed to Shimano’s component mastery in the late 1990s. The legendary XTR 950 group combined next level performance with a cohesive look that blended industrial brutalism with elegant proportions and flat out smoked everything else being made at the time. Same with Shimano’s contemporary flagship road group; the 7700 series Dura Ace. God damn. Minimalist, svelte, jewel polished, and everything just worked so damn well. These were components that were designed to complement the bikes they adorned; they had a subtlety to their looks that didn’t distract from the rest of the bike, but instead enhanced it. Looking at either of those groups makes me long for a different era.
Not everyone loved the pewter, but nobody denied the proportions or the performance. I still contend that this was peak mountain bike aesthetic perfection. From 1996 forward, the rear derailleur has been steadily getting uglier.
“I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time…”
Thinking through this under the cold glare of modern reality, performance is and always will be king. We accepted so much compromised shit for so many decades that we all deserve to ride bikes that shift and stop and do all the things we need them to do with reliability and a degree of accuracy. And we don’t really look at our bikes when we ride. And whoever really thought quick release wheels were such a great idea?
But then again, what if it’s not all about smashing the jump lines or sticking that root strewn climb? What happens when we (okay, me) admit that we can’t even come close to reaching the edge of new bike capability? Can aesthetics enter the chat once more? And then, is it too much of a pipe dream to hope that proportion and shape and restraint can find a way back into the component design conversation?
Nothing ruins an argument for proportional restraint than a big orange pickup truck. Some attempt will be made here to tie the room together...
My old Chevy is slow, consumptive and by all modern standards incredibly unsafe. It makes me smile every time I drive it. There’s a rewarding tactile messiness to the whole thing that makes a run to the hardware store feel like an adventure. I’m not saying that I want the experiential equivalent of a 1975 350 small block sucking greedily from a Quadrajet while I clunk through the gates of a Muncie SM465 for my upcoming gravel bike component selection. But I would absolutely be willing to make a few small scale performance concessions if I end up buying parts that don’t look like a pile of smashed assholes to hang from my beautiful new bike. And if I still smile when I struggle to find a gear, I’ll consider it money well spent.
Comments
taprider
1 month, 4 weeks ago
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Cr4w
1 month, 4 weeks ago
I think the original XTR fits in here too. Classic.
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Perry Schebel
1 month, 4 weeks ago
i once ran the exact d/a mech on my "freeride" bike (most accurate descriptor at the time; dualcrown / dh-adjacent. but pedaled on the shore most of the time). the above huret piece of art may have been an early inspiration, but i've been a long fan of compact / minimalist drivetrains (currently on 10-42 11spd w/ xt gs mid-cage). *really* not into the modern sram behemoths.
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handsomedan
1 month, 4 weeks ago
11 speed xt is awesome. If you can find an xtr shifter it’s even better.
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Ned
1 month, 4 weeks ago
yessssssssssss.... running this exact vintage on my steel Fauxnago. timeless
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ReformedRoadie
1 month, 4 weeks ago
The 7800 Dura-Ace crankset is the loveliest component Shimano has ever produced.
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justwan naride
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Good points made, and I nominate the Sram GX T-type crankset for the Ugliest Current Day Bike Component award.
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Cr4w
1 month, 4 weeks ago
I swear they made the GX that way to highlight how cool the XO T-type crankset looks.
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Timer
1 month, 4 weeks ago
I see what you mean, most current drivetrains look like they were designed to appeal to teenage gamers. Which wouldn't be inherently wrong, if there were prettier options for everyone else.
That said, what is stopping you from mounting a nice Dura Ace groupset to your gravel bike? Gear range?
There is also Campagnolos EKAR gravel groupset, which isn't near as pretty as the Campa groupsets from the 90s, but it looks a lot more refined than what Sram or Shimano are offering in the gravel sector.
PS: That orange pickup is a lot more proportionally sensible for a farm/construction vehicle than the contemporary ones.
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Mike Ferrentino
1 month, 4 weeks ago
I am considering adapting something road-esque for this. Current Shimano road spec still looks a bit like it was designed by someone who was really into Halo. The Rival Etap AXS stuff on my Ouroboros is a little more okay looking. I am not super stoked on the EKAR because of the 13 cogs and the cranks.
Since I am probably going to run a 2x up front, I've been giving some thought to adapting a wide range 10 speed cassette and running an old 7700 Dura Ace or 6600 Ultegra rear mid or long cage through a newer shifter so I can still have hydraulic brakes. Not entirely sure the spacing will work, but the aesthetic of those derailleurs is right on.
Or I could suck it up and wait on this: https://madronecycles.com/products/jab-derailleur
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Derby
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Looks like a bike in Akira
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Ned
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Sram-pag-mano ftw. big fan of the 9spd DurAcci, still have the whole gruppo from the days of the Bike mag forum takeover 20+yrs ago... where's Catzilla when you need her
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Andiwithoutlandy
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Maybe, we just like what we are used to and grew up with. But Iknow what you mean.
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Fat_Tony_NJ
1 month, 4 weeks ago
That's hot.
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Kyle Smith
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Have you considered the Classified Powershift hub? I mean, if you're going to drop buckets of bucks on this bike, what's a few more hundos? I run a 2x setup on my monstercross bike (40t/28t w/11-36 cassette) and I like having a road/gravel chainring and a singletrack chainring. You could achieve the same functionality with the Powershift hub, but it would look a lot cleaner and you could use a smaller cassette and deraillure.
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olaa
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Powershift combined with a Campa Chorus or Record set up with single chainring? Would look sweet and open up for using front shifter for dropper post.
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Mike Ferrentino
1 month, 4 weeks ago
I tried for a solid year to get one of those to test. Would absolutely consider one.
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JT
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Such a great idea but the proprietary cassette chafes my hide something fierce. Likely easier than producing 3 (minimum) different freehub bodies, but still.
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Jose Espinal
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Microshift's sword isn't that much of an eyesore. I would argue that my SRAM Rival 1 isn't either. Plus you can install an aftermarket cage and gear index from ratio, you make it a 12speed with enough range to hold a 52-10 cassette. You don't necessarily need to go mainstream on gravel.
Afterall gravel dudes be the type of dudes who will see a specialty coffee shop 70km away and think "I'll ride there" and go for a latte and a avocado toast (I'm gravel dudes)
Look into the sorts of Ingrid components DAMN those are pretty, you've already stated that you have a wheel barrow of cash available so that's a very valid option
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cxfahrer
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Ingrid, so beautiful! I love Italian design.
Regarding the Chevy, I didn't like it when I drove one back in 1998. Dangerous as hell (brakes, steering column goes straight from the bumper to your chest), and such a crude finish in everything. Even as a workhorse, absolutely horrific by European standards. Just NO!
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Mike Ferrentino
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Sword isn't too bad, definitely seems to intrude less into the overall aesthetic of the bike. I am a big fan of the Microshift thumbshifter.
Maybe I should have stated "I will need to sell a kidney to get that wheelbarrow full of cash" since it does not appear to be under the mattress at this time. I think the Chevrolet ate it. Ingrid make some neat stuff, but that aesthetic does not work for me.
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Ziggy
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Problem solved: https://www.renehersecycles.com/product-category/components/derailleurs/
Beautiful, functional and doable since the frame is custom.
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Mike Ferrentino
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Touché.
But I gotta draw the line somewhere, and derailleurs that need two cables are on the other side of it. To say nothing of the frame redesign needed, or my reactive fear of downtube shifters...
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Cr4w
1 month, 4 weeks ago
I thought this was pretty cool in an art deco kind of way. Though dollar for dollar I'd still go XTR.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-vivo-enduro-derailleur-and-f3-shifter.html
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Mike Ferrentino
1 month, 4 weeks ago
It's splitting hairs over the whole machined vibe, but I prefer the Madrone over the Vivo. Although they both look a little too angular for what I am chasing...
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Cr4w
1 month, 4 weeks ago
And the fact that you can actually buy the Vivo derailleur and shifter. The Madrone still looks like it's a ways off. Though I have no doubt it will work great when it's released.
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Allan Maxwell
1 month, 4 weeks ago
gearbox then?
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Mike Ferrentino
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Hard no!
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ZigaK
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Rohloff!
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Mike Ferrentino
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Even harder no! And yes, I have put the miles in on a Rohloff...
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Morgan Heater
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Boo hiss. In response to Mike's "hard no" to be clear. I'm pretty sure gearbox is the correct answer for a gravel bike even though I've never gone on a gravel ride.
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Andy Eunson
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Aesthetics for me have always been secondary to function by a long shot. If the component or frame looks like it would work better that makes the thing look good. Roadies for quite some time and even still call disc brakes ugly. WTF? it’s a simple mechanism. Just like a rim brake. It looks different that’s all. If one takes aesthetic too far you get cables in the headset and hidden shocks. To my eyes those things look terrible because they only exist to look pretty. Allegedly. Frame tubes look better to me if they are for the most part straight. Wiggly tubes look to me like the manufacturer is simply trying to make their bike look different. Than a Trek?
I can remember the Hetchin curly. Said to offer some kind of compliance when all it did was look different and differentiate the brand. Curved forks were proven by Colnago ages ago to offer no added compliance. It was tube gauge and perhaps shape that did that.
Some people like the look of machined parts. To me some machined stuff looks unfinished. Like a c grade in machine shop. I like simple looking designs with a clean aesthetic. I had one of those Jubilee derailleurs back in the day. Paired up to Shimano 600 downtube shifters where I had filed off the filigreed rococo design. It worked as well as anything. An important part of aesthetics is how that component looks to others. For example, in the early 80s one needed at least a Nuevo Record rear derailleur or better yet a Super Record to have cred. `Never mind that the Suntour Superbe worked far better, it wasn’t Campagnolo. Never mind that World Cup cross county races and world championships are being won right left and centre on mechanical XTR, look my derailleur cost way more and goes bzzzzt. I have no doubt that Transmission works really well consistently but how much better that mechanical?
And for anyone still wishing for multiple chainrings, I have a deal for you on front derailleurs. I have plenty. Free.
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Mike Ferrentino
1 month, 4 weeks ago
You are soooo gonna hate this bike!
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taprider
1 month, 4 weeks ago
I have to see it now!
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Squint
1 month, 4 weeks ago
> If one takes aesthetic too far you get cables in the headset and hidden shocks.
Amen. I spend a fair bit of my professional life fixing things, so aesthetic choices that reduce functionality or repairability are not favoured. Internal cable routing falls into this category. I see beauty in an elegant, simple mechanism that does a great job reliably.
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Mike Ferrentino
1 month, 4 weeks ago
If it's any consolation, this bike will have mostly external routing...
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JohnC
1 month, 3 weeks ago
Suntour Superbe was indeed superb, both in function and finish....beautiful stuff and worked fantastically. I still have a set of their pearl polished sealed bearing hubs in my parts bin with the grease ports. And their shifters that allowed you to switch between friction, shimano spacing STI or Suntour freehub spacing just worked well.
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XXX_er
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Doesnt matter what it looks like if it doesnt work IMO/ IME
i fondly remember owning a lefty Max which actulay worked great
some one would exclaim " wow its missing one fork leg ! "
so I would say oh fuck yeah thats whats wrong
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Kos
1 month, 4 weeks ago
KInd of in the “what real choice do I have category” IMO. But solid points, nonetheless.
"Not right now, anyway.” But later? That could/would be a lovely column.
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Raymond Epstein
1 month, 4 weeks ago
This by no means an indictment of SRAM as I have been a diehard fan of their goods since the mid-00s. I am with you that the esthetics are a bit too industrial macho, but that is not really a huge issue for me. However, I've yet to meet anyone that has come out and said that their Transmission drivetrain outperforms anything. At best, they says it works fine or it's kind of neat, but just seems like novelty. I have buddies that have ridden them and prefer the original AXS offerings. I too have ridden them and found no improvement in my experience (my number one metric for any purchase) versus the two different XO1 mechanical drivetrains I have adorning my Amish bikes. Furthermore, parts for those remain readily available and comparatively inexpensive. Lest you think I'm a Luddite, I just begrudgingly acquired the latest iPhone and I actually do like it. I have no desire though to plug in anything on my bike though outside of my e-bike's battery and I do not ride that very often. Maybe I'll change my mind about Transmission when they drop the mechanical version.
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Lowcard
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Those 9 speed XTR derailleurs were made of paper maché though. The B-knuckle spring couldn't hold a seat and allowed me to go through 5 of them in one summer of racing. I switched to a 9-speed XT and it never failed.
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Curveball
1 month, 4 weeks ago
I had a bike with 9-speed XT and it received a lot more mud than cleaning and maintenance. It worked solidly for the 11 years I owned the bike and may well still be going strong. That drivetrain may have been the best bit of cycling gear that I've ever owned.
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Morgan Heater
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Pinion P1.18? Maybe with smartshift and a belt? Some people are sensitive about the e-bike adjacent bottom bracket, but the single speed rear end is so tidy and the lack of maintenance is amazing.
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Morgan Heater
1 month, 4 weeks ago
So tidy!
https://co-motion.com/collections/single-bikes/products/divide
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Duck
1 month, 3 weeks ago
I do find the drivetrain pretty sexy tbh.
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Morgan Heater
1 month, 3 weeks ago
Me too! Is that a G3?
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JT
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Shimano Cues in U6000 variant is a surprisingly good-looking bit of kit for any price point. Sram's industrial design can be interpreted as a drivetrain equivalent to modern american urban architecture: Mixed use development but added on odd angles to all the rectangular boxes for no real reason.
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vunugu
1 month, 4 weeks ago
The upcoming Madrone Jab looks like a pretty good balance of form & function. No batteries either.
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Kieselguhr-Kid
1 month, 4 weeks ago
I feel like reading William Gibson's short story The Gernsback Continuum and then spending some time browsing the Disraeli Gears derailleur website is the only way to cure this form of ennui.
Actually it would probably be reading the short story and then shopping for the one-by gravel groupset you want on your new bike if the story is to be believed. Best to avoid French and Italian names for bike parts for a bit too, just to be safe.
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Perry Schebel
1 month, 4 weeks ago
that's a great story! (as well as most of the burning chrome collection). wg is rad.
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kekoa
1 month, 4 weeks ago
So so good. Recently re-read several of his earlier stuff and I’m kinda intrigued about Amazon doing neuromancer.
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Jonathan Friesen
1 month, 4 weeks ago
For me, the SRAM XX1 11 speed drivetrain is perfection. Perfect range, light and absolutely beautiful.
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justwan naride
1 month, 4 weeks ago
@Jonathan Friesen 11sp generally wins in the combined weight/range/durability aspect.
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Eastieboy
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Aside form the extreme outlay of $$ to add what I perceive to be a massively insignificant bump in performance , the main reason I haven't updated my 11-speed Shimano drivetrain is due to how unbelievably ugly and clunky these new components are - especially the SRAM T-Type crap. It looks like it's built for bikes that are 50% larger than bikes actually are. The scale is all off, and the finish is on par with 1990 entry level shit.
If I'm spending that kind of $$ in components, I expect a hell of a lot more than we're currently being served up.
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ReformedRoadie
1 month, 4 weeks ago
The special edition silver GRX grouppo was not terrible looking.
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XXX_er
1 month, 4 weeks ago
no buddy has brought up purple ano ?
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Mike Ferrentino
1 month, 4 weeks ago
No, buddy. Not until now.
(finger hovering above downvote button...)
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taprider
1 month, 4 weeks ago
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Dr_GG
1 month, 4 weeks ago
For some reason it´s sounds like you are calling for help and for some reason I can't believe that you don't know where to get it. Just in case you really don't know. Check out Rene Herse. So much nice looking and well working stuff. You are absolutly right, you don't need all that bulky stuff on a gravel bike. Do some research and you will be delighted to find things that will fit your taste. It's out there, I promise:-)
Cheers and enjoy your new bike, when it's done.
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Christian Strachan
1 month, 4 weeks ago
The quill stem is the other component that comes to mind in all this. There’s tens of failed (IMO) attempts by some companies to make a threadless stem that competes aesthetically.
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trumpstinyhands
1 month, 4 weeks ago
There's a photo doing the rounds at the moment showing a 1989(ish) Shimano Deore XT short cage rear derailleur alongside a T-Type derailleur, which shows how overbearing looking the T-Type derailleur is. The XT one shifted faster too :D
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Velocipedestrian
1 month, 4 weeks ago
Time for a dive down the NOS hole. Pick a generation that suits your aesthetic preference, and has the same cable pull between road and mtb groups.
Build bike, upload pics, invite discussion, win!
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alhoff
1 month, 3 weeks ago
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