Uncle Dave
Things I Learned While Shopping For a Gravel Bike
Before you read this, please recognize that 98% of this was written a few weeks ago, before Shimano launched their new CUES drop bar groupset, and before every dollar that we spend needed to be considered for its political implications.* There are certainly more pressing topics out there right now, and it sometimes feels like things need to be re-written hourly to keep up with everything. With all that said, here is some fluff written about things I have learned while shopping for a gravel bike.
*Canadians at least - Ed.
They say that the difference between a professional writer and an amateur is that the amateur waits for inspiration to hit, while the professional gets down to business. They say nothing about how each faces an editor asking if you’ve got anything in the pipe, perhaps even soon.
In these moments, you think about how you got here. What are my thoughts on bikes? Why don’t I care any longer? Man, is there any cold beer in the fridge?
Part of my problem is I just don’t think about bikes as much as I once did. When I do think about them, it tends to be on a deeper level, more on how they work than on what they are. I’m long past the point of caring about any particular component. I think this might actually be the highest compliment I could subconsciously pay to the bicycle industry. I don’t worry about these things because I don’t need to worry about these things. If I have a reasonable budget for a bicycle and some idea of my use case, there’s probably a half dozen plausible options to suit my need. Colour me surprised that when I started exploring the world of gravel bikes I discovered that this wasn’t the case.
Now, worry not. I’ve not sucked on the poisoned koolaid like our good friend Cooper. I’m shopping for a gravel bike to give as a gift, not to ride myself. My girlfriend has decided that she “wants to get into road biking”. I think she was surprised when my response was a deep sigh followed with “what do you mean by that?”
Don’t get me wrong, she rides her bike a lot. Her city bike. Her bars stand taller than would Elon Musk’s hand at a luncheon discussing the nuances of early 1940’s German history. Come for the schnitzel, maybe don’t plan on staying for the lecture.
Her current bike is not made for going fast and while it does get ridden on the road, it’s a long, long ways from a road bike. So we talked about it a bit and I realized what she really wants is an urban pothole bike capable of doing some longer distance rides on mixed terrain. A gravel bike felt like it was going to fit the bill, so I dusted off the old credit card and thanked my lucky stars I didn’t need to think all that hard about a birthday gift for the year. Now, a month or two after starting the process, I still haven’t bought a bike and I’m not sure how much closer I am to finalizing this task. I’m convinced that none of these bicycle companies actually know what they’re doing and I’m having flashbacks to the bad old days of buying mountain bikes in the early 2000’s. What gives? Here are a few of the things that I don’t understand about gravel bikes.
Riding around in foreign countries on janky city bicycles gives us both a lot of pleasure.
Just add a longer stem and this might be my perfect gravel bike size.
Brakes
When was the last time you considered using a cable actuated disc brake on your mountain bike? Did you ever consider using a cable actuated disc brake on your mountain bike? Apparently those shopping for gravel bikes aren’t this far along.
The worst offender in this is probably Trek. They have a $2400 gravel bike that looks pretty nice but is ruined by the cable actuated disc brake choice. Meanwhile, their $900 entry level hardtail mountain bike has hydraulic disc brakes on it. Sure, these are likely terrible brakes, but at least they aren’t going to be compromised by rusting cables and poor routing choices (feel free to hurl this argument right back in my face the next time I bemoan electronic drivetrains). Maybe cable actuated brakes work fine? I don’t want to know because I don’t need to know! I thought it was accepted wisdom that squeezing pistons via hydraulic pressure was a better solution than whatever the hell is going on inside a cable actuated disc caliper.
It’s not just Trek though. Most bikes in the $1,800-$2,500 face this same issue. Great looking bike with crappy looking brakes. It might be easier to look past if it wasn’t such a big job to swap to hydraulics, but with the shifter(s) integrated into your brake levers, this isn’t a cheap or easy upgrade. I’m guessing we should blame SRAM and Shimano for not having a decently priced hydraulic option.
Five years from now, this is not a set of brakes I want to be dealing with. Photo - Trek Bicycles
Front Derailleurs
For my girlfriend, a front derailleur is not an option. I remember when she was first learning to mountain bike, and her bike had a front derailleur. She treated the left hand shifter like it was the knob on a gumball machine, just smashing away at it, waiting for a prize to drop into her hand. Looking back, I can’t actually blame her for this. Any newbie coping with “press it firmly, but not too hard. Wait until your cranks get just so and then back off a bit…and then firm pressure…no…no…not with your feet, with your hands…there! Now, look at where your chain is in the back…see it? Okay, that’s not going to work. So press that other lever and keep pedaling and…yep…yep…it’ll fall off if you do that” really isn’t to blame.
I sort of get it with gravel bikes. You’ve got all these roadies that are quite happy shifting between 2 chainrings, just like their grandparents did in the early 1900’s. But as a mountain biker, would you ever, under any circumstances go back to 2 chainrings and a front derailleur? Shit, this is half the reason I started shopping for a gravel bike and not a road bike! There are quite a few road bikes shod with 2x 105 at decent price points if you’re not hung up on this.
But holy cow there are a lot of gravel bikes rocking 2 chainrings and a front derailleur! Peruse the Giant catalogue and wonder if the product manager has some sort of head injury indused amnesia and has forgotten the last 14 years of bicycle development. You have to step up to the $3300 Revolt X to get a 1x drivetrain. Their website is horrendous so it’s hard to tell, but I think if you want a 1x drivetrain without a bad suspension fork you have to go all the way to the $4800 Revolt Advanced 1. And if you want to really get crazy, you can spend $7300 for the front derailleur equipped Revolt Advanced Pro 0.
This is psychotic! If anybody needs the simpler drivetrain, it’s the newcomers spending less on bikes. How is 1 less chainring and 1 less shifter way more money? Yes, yes, the cassette is larger and more complicated, but really? Many bike companies want you to spend at least $3000 to get a 1x drivetrain (Specialized here, Trek here). This feels like a crime.
Sizing
If you finally do find a bike that ticks all the boxes, good luck on sizing! My short list is down to the Grizl 6 1by or the Trek Checkpoint ALR 5. I like the Trek but the price point feels crazy. I like the Canyon but I’m learning about the perils of ordering something online that you don’t fully understand.
At 5’6”, my girlfriend is of average height (Google and their AI assist give me several values between 5’3” to 5’5” for the average height of a Canadian or American woman). It’s strange that when shopping for bicycles, she seems to be some sort of magical unicorn, of a height that seldom rides or purchases bicycles. According to Trek she’s smack dab inbetween a 52 and 54cm frame. That 54cm frame from Trek has the same reach as what Canyon suggests for somebody between 5’10” and 6’1”.
She tried the 52 and that was way too long. The 49 felt good, but the headtube is puny which results in a stack that is ridiculously low. The sizing of the Trek nudges me towards Canyon. Their small frame is similar in size to the 49cm Trek, but doesn’t have the same puny stack. Canyon suggests that bike for anybody between 5’8” and 5’10”, while Trek thinks this is just perfect if you’re between 5’1” and 5’4”. Drop down to the Canyon XS and your reach gets super short, and they throw a set of 650b wheels on to boot. And to make it even more confusing, as you bounce between sizes, they change the width of the handlebar, the length of the cranks and even the width of the saddle!
I’m starting to think that the bicycle industry might not care all that much about selling bicycles to women. If my Google search was correct and the average woman is shorter than 5’6”, that means most companies have two size options that they think will fit half of all women! I’m not sure if Trek thinks all that kindly of the men though either. From the smallest (393mm) to the largest (417mm) there’s only 24mm difference in reach! That’s supposed to cover everybody from 5’1” to 6’3”! I guess the 100mm stem they throw on the largest size helps somewhat.
Canyon seems to be a bit better, going from 372mm all the way up to 436mm. That’s still only 64mm difference in reach to cover a sizing chart that bottoms out at 4’6” and tops out at 7’2”! Something for everyone! If you expect to figure anything out by looking at these geometry charts you’re bound to be flummoxed. It feels like much of the fit of these bicycles is done by swapping stems, cranks or bars, as much as anything. I don’t know about you, but things didn’t go so well the last time I tried to upsize my mountain bike with a 100mm stem. And just for comparison's sake, the total range for reach from XS to XL is 100mm!
Of course, this is where a competent shop is going to be able to help out. We dropped in to West Point Cycles on the weekend to look at the Trek Checkpoints, and they were super helpful! They were grabbing all sorts of bikes off the wall, hurling pedals at bikes, and talking about options to make the bike fit. It was great service but it still feels like despite all the available sizes, there’s going to be a big compromise somewhere, either on stack or reach. It’s also sapped my confidence in thinking I might get this right ordering from Canyon. Go LBS!
Geometry
And finally, we’re at geometry. This is less confusing for me, but perhaps not for all. My girlfriend's friend heard about the gravel bike extravaganza and decided to get in on the action. She sent me a link to what looks like a Doctahawk with drop bars on it. I explained to her that if she wasn’t looking to be dropping the heavy shit on the darkside, she didn’t need a head tube that slack. But it’s interesting! Some companies are clearly just selling warmed over road bikes with a bit of tire clearance, while others are channeling 90’s Tomac goes offroad. Not a bad thing, but clearly this is a discipline that doesn’t quite know what it is yet.
That head tube looks so much slacker than 67.5 degrees! I kind of want one. Would need a brake swap though. Photo - Marin Bikes
Size Specific Components
I’ll hand out one “good job” to the people selling us gravel bikes. They really have embraced size specific components. Using Canyon again as an example, from smallest up to largest:
Stem – 50mm on the 3XS, 100mm on the 2XL (6 different sizes, total)
Cranks – 170mm on the 3XS, 175mm on the 2XL (3 different sizes, total)
Bars – 400mm on the 3XS, 460mm on the 2XL (4 different sizes, total)
Saddle – Same saddle throughout, but other brands offer different widths
Back to the spectral, the only thing that changes is a very slightly narrower bar on the smallest 2 sizes (760mm instead of 780mm on all the rest) and dropper post travel. Everything else (stem, cranks, saddle) is the same, top to bottom.
In Conclusion
In Conclusion, I’m complaining on the Internet that the niche bicycle I’m shopping for isn’t perfect because it has too many gears and the brakes aren’t actuated the correct way. As far as problems go, this is pretty minor.
Maybe I’m a bit delusional here? I’m sure the average newbie buying a mountain bike would be just as confused as this? But maybe not. It feels like these companies are doing things that we just wouldn’t accept with mountain bikes. It feels like they’re kind of making it up as they go along and charging a crazy premium for anything with the word “gravel” attached to it. Dollar for dollar, you seem to get more value when shopping for a road bike vs. gravel. So much so that I’ve considered buying a road bike and just swapping a 1x drivetrain onto it.
The fantastic news is that the day after I put this all to paper, Shimano announced the launch of a drop bar version of CUES. This feels like it’s going to solve my disc brake/1x drivetrain problem and I’m anticipating the announcement of a whole bunch of reasonably priced gravel bikes in the near future. So, for now, I’m going to put things on hold. Hopefully by then, the politics of how to buy a bicycle will be sorted and I can just focus on buying the best bike that suits her needs.
Comments
ackshunW
1 month ago
“press it firmly, but not too hard. Wait until your cranks get just so and then back off a bit…and then firm pressure…no…no…not with your feet, with your hands…there! Now, look at where your chain is in the back…see it? Okay, that’s not going to work. So press that other lever and keep pedaling and…yep…yep…it’ll fall off if you do that”
Hahaha so good.
Your sizing exposé is very interesting, especially the recommended-size-discrepancy.
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Pete Roggeman
1 month ago
An ages old writing assignment was to describe how to tie your shoelaces. Looks like the semi-modern bike-related version would be to describe how to operate a front derailleur.
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Merwinn
1 month ago
" Her bars stand taller than would Elon Musk’s hand at a luncheon discussing the nuances of early 1940’s German history"
HA!
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Jose Espinal
1 month ago
My only advice as a mtber who got a gravel bike, do not think of them as mountain bikes whatsoever!!!
I wanted to get as many km out of every euro I spent on my gravel so I bought a marin Nicasio +, I took it out of the shop and rode 1000km straight to Italy in a bikepacking trip the very next day.
Look for a cable actuated gravel bike with microshift 1x drivetrain and pretty much forget about it.
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Sven
1 month ago
Yes! Gravel bikes belong on gravel trails (I.e Fisherman’s or easy flat XC), roads and paths. Not for mtn bike downhill trail, despite what the spawnzored riders tried to sell on IG.
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knumyk
1 month ago
Just buy a Kona Unit and forget all of this!
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Cr4w
1 month ago
I had the same experience when shopping for a gravel bike in 2018-2019. It turns out that there are a lot of road bike companies out there, like, 100s that I hadn't heard of, and they're all making basically identical bikes. When it comes to the bigger sizes every.single.company did it the same way: same rear center, very short reach/TT (by any standard), and a slacker seat tube angle than the smaller sizes (presumably because long femurs?). Every single company at the time did it exactly the same way. And these bikes sucked for all those reasons.
So I got one custom made. Road bikes are optimized for the middle sizes then they extrapolate out and then at the extremes of XS and XXL they tend to make half-steps. So I optimized my geometry for what I thought it should be, 50 years of road bike designers be damned. Clearly they don't know anything about big strong guys. Have you seen how Rapha gear fits?
And I was right. I still ride that bike today. Six years later Santa Cruz arrived at the exact same geometry for its XXL Stigmata along with the XXL Canyon Grizl. The traditionalists can suck it.
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Glass
1 month ago
Gravel bikes tend to be slightly modified road bikes. Since road bikes are still in the stone age geometry wise many of those problems get transmitted to gravel bikes.
A cheap xc bike with some drop bars, a larger chainring and narrower tyres would be much better gravel bike then what is out there at the moment.
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fartymarty
1 month ago
And there is a forum thread if you are so inclined.... https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/gear-4/topic/mtb-gravel-bike-conversions-132626/
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
i would disagree with "Gravel bikes tend to be slightly modified road bikes" - this was somewhat true, although they were more commonly modified CX bikes, but most brands gravel geo has moved on into its own realm. Hence some of the issues and confusion - it's a broad genre of bikes with different use cases, and comparing geo on a Checkpoint and Gestalt is akin to comparing a Slash and Supercaliber.
I also disagree with "A cheap xc bike with some drop bars, a larger chainring and narrower tyres would be much better gravel bike then what is out there at the moment."
While there's certainly plenty of folks running setups like this, its a niche that requires a good knowledge of geometry, use case, fit, and your riding goals. It also generally requires buying a bike and swapping off the cockpit and drivetrain, which isn't really what Dave is trying to do here.
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Morgan Heater
1 month ago
I feel like the main issue with repurposing an XC bike would be the lack of places to attach bags and bottles if you want to do an over-night trip.
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JD
1 month ago
https://knollybikes.com/en-ca/products/cache-steel
Hydraulic, 1x, longer than typical reach...
My girlfriend and I are both 5'6"-5'7", and we're both on 54cm Caches, and love them!
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Jerry Willows
1 month ago
that's a good deal and it's Canadian.
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Reed Holden
1 month ago
Why are all y'all talking about reach? It doesn't factor into a gravel bike. Reach is a measurement for how a bike handles when you are standing. ETT is what yous should be looking at imo. Gravel biking is a seated activity. You don't need to worry about reach.
Also, 2x is the only way to go for anyone who actually wants to gravel. If it's for a commute, fine. But for long miles you cannot do it as well with the giant jumps on a 1x cassette. Also, as others have suggested, grx front derailleur is nothing like they used to be.
Finally, a plug for marino frames.
Took my old Chris's king non boost enve wheelset, bought a grx 810 11 speed groupo on clearout from merlin as well as stem bar seatpost etc. Whole bike with custom geo and paint is less than an entry level trek with mechanic brakes. Just a thought....
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Mark
1 month ago
^^^
Winner winner chicken dinner.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
2x is absolutely not the only way for long miles. It might be the only way for you, but there's plenty of folks out there doing just fine with long miles on 1x.
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Offrhodes42
1 month ago
The biggest thing you need to figure out is what are you going to do with a gravel bike. Just like a mtb, there are many "categories" of gravel bikes. I live in NH and most of my gravel bike riding is a mixture of paved roads, dirt roads, a small amount of snowmobile trails, and lots of short ups and downs. Do you want a gravel bike for non-maintained dirt paths, bikepacking, big mountain adventures, racing, and the list goes on. Also, being 5'4" I understand the battle of finding a correct fit. 20 years ago I would have chosen the XS size of any road bike on the market. My first gravel bike was the original Niner RLT in 47cm. After 10 years on that I replaced it last year with the 50cm Niner RLT Steel. Geometry has changed, and will continue to change, as the category of gravel continues to evolve.
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Brizzy
1 month ago
Well I'm gonna sound crazy for saying this but IME front derailleurs have come a LONG way (at least for Shimano) and I love mine. I'm on 2x10 GRX and the front shifts are reliable, fast, and don't really require finesse. And just so you know I'm not completely nuts, I still have a trainer bike with an old 2x10 SRAM FD and it's absolute garbaggio. There's really no comparison IMO.
I'm not proposing bringing back 2x for mtb (although I know some XC marathon types who do actually want this), but I wouldn't rule out 2x GRX setups so quickly. I've been really pleasantly surprised with how well the FD works.
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JohnC
1 month ago
Same and I find that with 2X, I can really cruise on gravel in the big ring and the closer cassette at the back is so helpful when bikepacking. My GRX front derailleur is amazing. Thousands of km's and I haven't dropped a chain once.
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Sven
1 month ago
Agreed. My 105 and her GRX 2X are easy to use.
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Bryce Borlick
1 month ago
But without a fd, you could that shifter for your 240mm dropper post
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LWK
1 month ago
Dear Dave,
Our first priority is always to ensure we have the marketing, branding and awareness on point first. This was very difficult for gravel bikes because they look basically like road or CX bikes. Its only after this foundational work is done that we can move on to minor details like geo, brakes, and sensible drivetrains.
The good news is that if you buy a bike now, we anticipate offering significant value-added geo and component improvements over the next few years which should enable you to rationalize buying a new bike again (hopefully several times!).
sincerely,
Big Bike
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Allen Lloyd
1 month ago
OK cable actuated disk brakes are great in the right circumstance with the right setup. I still have a set of old Avid cable brakes on my rigid bike. The key is getting a brake pad that is really bitey and the lever has to have a ton of leverage. What I like about the Avid's is they are very tunable. Each pad has independent adjustment and the cable has adjustment on both ends of the cable, at the lever and at the caliper.
Are they as good as hydro? Nope. Do they work well enough in the right circumstances? Yep.
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
I think this is exactly why I don't want to go down this road. I really want something for her that doesn't need to be thought about at all, and that I can just check the pads on every once in awhile and occasionally bleed when I have my bleed kit out already for something else.
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Brizzy
1 month ago
Yeah I rode Spyres on my gravel / CX bike for many years. Not as good as GRX hydros but still totally fine for gravel riding if set up properly (and I liked them better than the Avids, FWIW). Two other notes / caveats on that:
1. I've had multiple friends buy new gravel bikes with mech discs that are just flat out terrible. Every time the root cause was crappy brake housing. Really frustrating to see brands making big sacrifices for literal pennies.
2. I don't think we'll see low end gravel bikes get hydros for a long time, if ever. Once you go hydraulic you're basically locked into a complete groupset since the levers handle both shifting and braking. Bikes at that price point are all about mixing up specs to save small amounts of money.
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
I guess it just depends on what you feel is "low end". I didn't expect to see $2500 bikes with cable discs.
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Merwinn
1 month ago
Tolnai,
As an MTB and gravel bike owner, get hydros on the gravel bike. Unless you're an RMT with hands like vice grips, they will get tired as we just don't have the same leverage as on a flat bar, especially on the hoods. I know, I've had both on multiple drop bar bikes for years.
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
For sure! It really doesn't even feel like a question to me. She test road a bike with cable and then hyro brakes and it was just immediately "Not those. Those." Sure sure, the systems need to bed in, but this doesn't feel like the area to compromise in.
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WheelNut
1 month ago
You can't size a gravel or road bike by reach. Why? Because reach isn't really relevant when you are in the saddle and 99% of your time on a drop bar bike is spent in the saddle, which is very different than an MTB. Use Effective top tube, stem length and seat tube angle to understand where the riders hands and butt end up. Not really all that easy to do, but such is life.
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JohnC
1 month ago
I hear you Dave....the 2X exists for most cheaper gravel bikes because they are running 10spd often and the 2X really expands the gearing at both ends while allowing smaller steps in the cassette....but I get the front derailleur bit. I also get the cable brake concern but to be honest, both these issues are really non-issues in practice. My wife has exactly the above scenerio....and she loves her ride....it's the most enjoyable bike she's ever owned both compared to her road and MTB experiences and has increased her riding enjoyment. It also has decently fast 700X40c tires which also work really well for most things unless you're hitting trails better served by an MTB..... One thing to note, the 2X big ring is such that in most cases that is the common cruising selection and the small ring is reserved for really grunty climbs...she tends to set it in the big ring and forget it except when hitting a big climb.....the cable brakes also are very good for modulation which is nice for a gravel bike. So that is my two cents. And while you're still searching, take a gander at Paul Brodie's offerings....well thought out machines and priced nicely. He'll probably be at the bicycle and outdoor show if you want to speak to him directly. Good luck!
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Pete Roggeman
1 month ago
Is Paul selling bikes again or do you mean Brodie bikes? He sold the name many years ago.
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JohnC
1 month ago
Brodie Bikes but his gravel bikes are all his designs/specs; of course, the frames are manufactured offshore as are any mid/low set-ups. Had a great chat with him last year about his offerings; well thought out and a bonus, very nice looking steeds.
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Pete Roggeman
3 weeks, 4 days ago
This doesn't make any sense. Paul isn't involved at all with the Brodie brand and I wasn't aware he was selling bikes otherwise.
Bruce Spicer does most of the product design and management for Brodie, and that's been the case since about 2002.
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ohio
1 month ago
Yeah, but beginner/intermediates are probably also not descending fast enough to run out of gearing on a 1X setup, or if they are, they aren't pedalling at those speeds.
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bushtrucker
1 month ago
_I’m starting to think that the bicycle industry might not care all that much about selling bicycles to women. If my Google search was correct and the average woman is shorter than 5’6”, that means most companies have two size options that they think will fit half of all women! _
Great article. That's the biggest take away. Weird gravel component specs aside the small end of the bike sizing spectrum is a total disaster. This applies to MTB's too.
For the price and use discussed I'd consider a Marin Muirwoods (great geo, hydros, 1x). Yes it's a flat bar bike but drop bars suck unless you're trying to ride really fast on smooth roads.
If ya set on drops then a Kona Rove is worth a look. Yes the cheaper ones come with cable brakes but they'll be fine. It's hard to ride a drop bar bike hard enough that well setup cable brakes won't provide enough stopping power.
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Couch_Surfer
1 month ago
Flat bar gravel bike is a lot of fun - and for a more casual rider, maybe more approachable.
I come at gravel as a Roadie looking for some dirt, so I go with drops for more hand positions for distance. But I've ridden a flat bar Knolly Cache (friends bike) and it's a blast to ride.
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fartymarty
1 month ago
I tried some cable discs on my gravelized Krampus and they sucked big time. Admittedly I didn't have compressionless housings but I don't think that would have made them suck less. I ended up getting some GRX levers and haven't looked back. Once you get used to good brakes it's hard to go back to crappy brakes.
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FlipSide
1 month ago
I got cable-actuated Avid BB7 for my FR/DH bike in 2002, after reading on the internet that these were as good as hydro brakes, which was BS. The plastic adjuster on the caliper literally melted and became unusable after only a few rides.
My LBS forbid me to use these brakes ever again and gave me a good deal on a set of Hayes Mag.
This was the moment I learned not to believe everything I read on the internet. :)
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ackshunW
1 month ago
My first ever disc brake was an Avid BB7, front only because my new 2004 fork had mounts but not my 1998 frame. I’d already splurged on Avid Ultimate levers so I wanted to keep them, keep the levers the same left to right.
That dang brake, on 160mm rotor, was GREAT on my local (janky, steep but not mountainous) terrain. Good feel, modulation, and I could lock it up for a hop or nose pivot whenever I wanted.
But when I took it for a race in Vermont that started with a 2000’ descent, oh boy did I find its limitations fast.
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XXX_er
1 month ago
I found the hayes mag to be shit, 3 broken hoses/ dragging pads not great power.
in comparison BB7 was easy to instal, trouble free, no bleed, as much or more power than hayes, fixable at any bike shop in the america's or yurp
the only thing the BB7 didnt do well is modulate but more power than Hayes, l brake ( pun intended) into a cold sweat when i read the word "Hayes" but ymmv I supose
I descended 5 of the 6 major TDF cols in the pyrennes on fully loaded touring configured mtb's with cheap Tektro V brakes and it was just not a problem
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WheelNut
1 month ago
Good housing makes a big difference.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
The Checkpoint and Grizl geo are different, but possibly more comparable than they initially appear to those of us accustomed to mountain bikes, because the while the frames are certainly somewhat different, the fit isn't. The ETT and stack on a small Grizl fall smack between a 52 and a 54 Checkpoint. Both are overall still somewhat based in road fit with HTAs to match, although the longer chainstays will add some comfort and stability. The Gestalt is adding stability with HTA and wheelbase up front, and while 67 is certainly quite slack, why wouldn't you want a bike named after one of the most famous bars in mountain biking?
It's worth thinking about geometry more from a fit persepective than what we're used to, mtb-style "handling characteristics". This is most obvious with the range of reach available on gravel bikes, but if you take notes you'll usually notice that bikes with much longer reach will be offset with shorter stems, leaving the ass-to-handlebars measurement the same. Probably not news to you, but worth noting.
The Gestalt has excellent beer.
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Dan Lees
1 month ago
Nice to see nothing much has changed since I bought my Jamis Renegade Expat back in 2016. I remember pulling together a spreadsheet with all the various options at my £1000 budget and come to the conclusion that it was going to be a series of compromises.
Did I want a steel frame more than hydro disks? Tiagra and Alu fork more than Sora and a carbon fork. etc etc.
1x wasn't really a thing back then on gravel bikes.
I ended up managing through sheer dumb luck to get the Jamis which I had dismissed as out of budget for £700 (about £1k in 2025 money) just before the UK importer decided to not to bother with them anymore. A similar bike is going for £1500-2000 in the UK now.
It had/has Tiagra 4700 (which doesn't seem to have changed in the 8 years), FSA chainset, Tektro cable discs (which seemed to be the best of a bad bunch but adequate for gravel/dirty lanes riding), carbon fork and steel frame with lots of bottle mounts and pump peg. It also had the worst saddle I have had the displeasure to sit on which was replaced after exactly 1 ride.
It's done sterling service for the last 9(!) years as my winter "Not-mtb". It's been treated to new wheels (Hope 20Five) and new chainset (Tiagra chainset, rings and BB was basically the same price as a new FSA BB) plus lots of consumables.
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Sven
1 month ago
https://www.liv-cycling.com/ca/bikes/cross-and-gravel-bikes/gravel
Liv Devote for your GF or Liv Devote Advanced for your wife. You’re welcome Dave. Liv / Giant Vancouver
I just skimmed the article and heard a lot of mansplaining. Go visit the pros on 4th and Broadway.
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
Liv's are priced the same as Giant. You have to get far outside of my budget to get away from 2x.
I don't really understand your mansplaining comment. She asked for my advice and I'm buying it as a gift. These are the things I'm learning. She doesn't really care all that much about the parts moving underneath her, but I'm trying to buy her something that I think will work well for her based on what I know of what she wants to do.
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dave_f
1 month ago
My wife ended up with a Liv Devote that usually gets used for the commute to work when it's not winter. It was the only reasonable choice with no headset cable routing and usable attachment points for a rack. GRX 8 series 12-speed. She loves it.
The fit was different than Giant, I made sure to bite my lip and let her form her own opinion on a test ride. If it really has to be 1x, swap out the crankset. Fortunately it has a BSA BB. The only questionable item is the funky seatpost.
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
I started looking at 2x to 1x swaps. Once you get to changing out left brake lever, crankset and potentially the cassette...I'd just rather put the money into a more expensive bike. Hopefully Giant/Liv comes out with a CUES 1x bike.
And yes. I am making no suggestions on fit!
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Sven
1 month ago
I skimmed the article and simply saw so many details that many riders who aren’t specific detail oriented don’t delve into. Happy to hear you learned a lot, what did she learn?
How does it feel? How does it ride? Is it the right price? Is 2X really that hard to learn?
(That’s why I commented about two price points in a joking manner. Too much time on NBR).
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
Sure. The point is to compare the state of mountain bikes to the state of gravel bikes, as a mountain biker. That's going to necessitate getting into some details. I noticed some things that were weird, I thought it would be interesting to talk about.
For her...I mean, honestly, she just does not care about most of this stuff! She wants a drop bar bike that is simple and that she can go out and ride. I'm trying to take care of the details so that she has an enjoyable experience. I'm trying to interpret what she says about fit and find something that is going to work and tick all of the other boxes. I think a 1x drivetrain is important because I know she just wants to be able to click away on 1 shifter! When she got her first wide range mtb she was so much happier! I think hydraulic brakes are important because I just don't want to worry about them. I want safe, reliable brakes that I understand and that don't require any fuss.
This is not me trying to force my will on another person. This is me attempting to get something that is going to work for them based on everything that I know about them.
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Sven
1 month ago
When is the last time either of you shifted a properly setup front derailleur? I get it, but this isn’t your old 18 speed mtb.
100% agree with you on hydros. My first curly bar was cables, they were shit.
Please at least go test ride a Devote 1. The Liv design is made to fit women, who have different proportions than men.
$2199 with GRX hydro, 2x10, S and M in stock locally (her size).
And yes, 1x stupidly costs more. Your needs are met with 0% financing of a Devote Advanced 1 at $3999.
Full disclosure: not only a sales pitch for the shop who sponsored Pangor TAP for many great years, but my wife also loves her Revolt Advanced 2x.
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Jotegir
1 month ago
Do you have to spend more on your wife than your girlfriend to make sure she knows she's still your number one?
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Sven
1 month ago
My wife has had nicer bikes than I, she buys them herself.
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Sven
1 month ago
And a gravel blows a road bike out of the water. Wife was faster (timed commute to Kits from Seymour) on the road with her Giant Revolt (Covid buy, no Devotes available) than she was on her $6500+ Lagma road racing whip. The gravel geo and tires of the Revolt smooth out the road and take away narrow handlebar fear. The Lagma got sold.
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
Exactly. She definitely wants a drop bar bike. The wider tires and less aggressive geometry are very appealing.
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Mark
1 month ago
Yes, I happily ride my trail/xc/downcountry bike with a front derailleur. I also happily ride my enduro and DH bikes without one. I honestly don't see the need for noise either way. For an xc'ish oriented bike I have better range, better chain line and ridiculously cheap chain, derailleur and cassette replacement cost. Have I never dropped a chain on a 2x system? No. But it's so infrequent I can't recall the last time it happened.
Re the bike choice I think a "city" style bike is a great platform for a good gravel build. Add flat bars w/bar ends if you want and some disc brakes running your preferred type of juice and you're good to go. Heck throw on a decent 4" fork with a lockout if you want and have two sets of wheels and now you have one do-it-all bike that is good for commuting, the odd shorter distance road ride and le gravel style riding. Buy used and upgrade. OR, just get a nice XC hardtail with a second set of cheap road wheels and you're done, without having to worry about brakes either. Something like a Canyon Grand Canyon or a Kona Kahuna could fit the bill really well. I find the big advantage to an MTB style gravel bike is the sloping top tube and ease of on-off the bike, a great consideration if you're doing city riding and using the bike to dodge potholes while running errands. I think unless someone is doing lots a road miles, a traditional road style frame is far too limiting for what most people want or need out of a bike.
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
It's funny because that first mountain bike that she had that I mentioned with the front derailleur was kind of this. I had some holy rollers on there for riding around town, and then I would throw on knobbies if she wanted to ride off road.
For this bike, she really wants drop bars and she will end up riding some distance on it. I want something simple to use and reliable. I think a more road focused gravel bike is going to be perfect. It's easy to find what I need at $3500+. It's harder to find what I need at$2500. This just surprised me a bit as I didn't think I was asking for too much!
I'm honestly curious to see what comes out in the next few months with CUES on it. There are some real obvious gaps in product lines that make me feel like there are some companies sitting on bikes waiting to be launched.
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Mark
1 month ago
Announcing to the world that there is a price limit on your love for your girlfriend is an odd move. /s
Your conundrum brings to light how strange it is that despite the awesome advances in bikes over the past decade there are still some incredibly large gaps that need to be filled. It seems that except for the hyrdo brakes and drop bars/controls there are some good options, which is that big gap and a big jump in price.
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
Ha ha...it didn't feel like I was cheaping out on a gift!
Honestly, I nearly got into my inflationary bicycle spending mindset. "This one looks way better and it's only $4,000!" When I suggested that, she looked at me like I'm crazy. And there are new problems at higher price points! Headset cable routing, for example.
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BarryW
1 month ago
Have you looked at these Dave?
Polygon Tambora
Polygon Bend
Intense gravel
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
Polygon is pretty tough to track down here. The Intense is a bit beyond the price point I'm looking in!
BarryW
1 month ago
The Intense is $1799 on sale right now at least looking from the US.
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Brad Sedola
1 month ago
The thing that bugs me most about the gravel bike scene has already been there/done that in the mtb side of things. It took jumping the shark with 3" 29+ tires to settle on the 'right' tire size, but the incremental 5mm increase in tire size compatibility every year drives me nuts. "Now fits 38mm tires... now 42mm... now 50mm." Give us clearance for 2.1" tires and then I can fit whatever tire I want in there.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
There's a lot of design considerations that go into adding tire clearance, and not all of those changes are things people who buy gravel bikes want. So it's a balance. You can't just give a bike with 418mm chainstays clearance for 2.1s without making some sacrifices.
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Timer
1 month ago
Thats just a trend of "mtbification" in gravel bikes, just like there is "endurofication" in mountain bikes.
And what used to be gravel bikes 5 years ago are now "endurance road bikes" with slightly relaxed geo and much better tyre clearance.
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Squint
1 month ago
You're right, it's a segment that companies are still trying to figure out. Road bike with fat tires, or mountain bike with drop bars?
I rode for years on cable-actuated disk brakes, and they were fine. I am very much happier with my GRX hydraulic but I think the cable disks are reasonable for many riders who aren't going to see loaded touring or fire road descents.
What really threw me when I was shopping for a gravel bike upgrade for commuting was the lack of rack and fender mounts in decent mid-range bikes. Do manufacturers not realize these are ideal commuting rides? So many models discounted out of hand due to lack of mount points.
This eventually let me to the Trek Checkpoint ALR 5, which is a fantastic bike and I also got great service at West Point. For my use I appreciate the relatively slack front end, I am more likely bombing through broken pavement or gravel and appreciate the stability.
"I’m starting to think that the bicycle industry might not care all that much about selling bicycles to women." It has always been thus, despite some niche efforts. We are right to be expecting more after so long.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
Its not a road bike with fat tires, or a mountain bike with drop bars. They're a different segment entirely.
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Squint
1 month ago
Yes thanks, I understand that. With the spectrum of what is now being offered as a "gravel bike", some seem to have evolved from the road side, others from the dirt, and with CX/touring considerations thrown in all over.
When mountain bikes first came around, they were just mountain bikes. Now we argue about how many different sub-classifications there are. I'm interested in the evolution of the gravel segment.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
I've written about that very thing on this here website quite a bit!
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rusm
1 month ago
Just get her a Chamois Hagar, covers all the bases, looks cool, more MTB than road geo so fits wider selection of riders, fast, tough, all the mounts literally all of them! For the crown, comes with dropper post! Readily available used in great condition for <$2500.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
"looks cool"
we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Perry Schebel
1 month ago
i think they're neat? *runs away*
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
Things can be neat and also visual abominations!
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Bikes
1 month ago
How is a Chamois Hagar “fast” or at least faster than another gravel bike?
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ohio
1 month ago
Because it turns out that steep geometry has no positive effect on the actual speed of a bike. It makes it *feel* quicker, but it isn't actually faster around corners and it certainly isn't faster in a straight line. And it makes toe overlap a challenge for any small to medium sized frames. But it is WAY slower in anything steep or rough.
The fact that XC bikes, let alone gravel and road bikes are only just learning this lesson is a testament to how ingrained our traditions are. XC tracks are *straighter* than enduro tracks. Show me a road course, even a crit, that has tighter turns than the switchbacks on your local singletrack; then explain why a road race bike has a 71-73 deg head angle.
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Bikes
1 month ago
I don’t disagree, I viewed “faster” as in pedaling speed on flat ground. The slacker bike will be faster or at least more comfy in steep dh sections.
While on the subject, front end weighting and thereby grip is hugely affected by HTA and I think a lot of mtb community dismisses that due to tire size, suspension and body position. A roadie will not give up an aero position long term to achieve front end weighting so to some degree, the geometry needs to suit for a more static rider position.
I do think road bikes (which I like) put too much emphasis on “fast handling”. My slack enduro bike handles great but I also use a lot more body english and the tires are huge…so apples to oranges. And too slack does make smaller movements (think peloton groups…which aren’t relevant to non-pros) and slow speed handling less efficient (ie wheel flop).
I don’t buy into “slack is better” for everything. It’s not Stone Age, just different uses. BMX tracks are not super tight, but ride a slack enduro or steep DJ and you’ll see the steep DJ is better (and slack compared to an actual BMX bike which feels even better in its home environment.
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Couch_Surfer
1 month ago
If you want your GF to never want to ride again then absolutely follow this advice.
Good god MTBers have no idea what makes other forms of cycling fun.
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Reed Holden
1 month ago
Second this.
Anyone who thinks a 67 degree hta belongs on a gravel bike bought the wrong bike for what they are doing.
Cornering on a gravel bike is done in a position very similar to seated, if not seated. The only reason slack hta work for mtb is because you are standing and the terrain is super steep. As soon as you are cornering on more level ground in a seated position you will understand that a steep hta weights your front wheel. If you go too slack you have to drop your upper body to move your centre of gravity over the front wheel.
The chamois haggar is only faster on a mtb trail. For gravel I would suck. Like suck so bad, I would be upset to ride it.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
Actually laughed out loud (in agreement) at your second sentence.
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SteveR
1 month ago
My winter project has been to gravelize my Dekerf Team HT, with a mix new parts (Salsa fork, 650 wheelset and gravel tires) and old. The drivetrain is a relatively unused XT 780 2x10 with 36-24 rings, 11-32 cogs, saved after going 1x on another older bike. A couple of bike path test rides before winter returned to Alberta 10 days ago confirmed my decision to go with the 2 x10- crisp changes on the FD and a wide range without spinning out (at least so far). I would never go back to 2x on the MTB, though.
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Mike Wallace
1 month ago
Dave, I have the answer to your dreams. I just went thru this for my wife. I bought her a Commencal FCB. Beautiful, fast, functional and reasonably priced. Has most everything you are looking for I think. What i figured out is that it costs an extra $1000 if you want it to be a "Gravel" bike. Just like trying to buy a Sprinter van right now.
We are down south in warmer climes right now (I know, I know, I know) so she is riding it a lot and often passing bewildered road bikers...
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
Oh that does look nice! Of course...small is out of stock.
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Mark
1 month ago
Valentine's is just a few days away; 2 birds 1 stone?
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Michael Fitzgerald
1 month ago
This comment has been removed.
Michael Fitzgerald
1 month ago
Lauf Seigla Rigid Core Wireless, 1x drivetrain, hydraulic brakes, big tire clearance, $2640, delivered to your doorstep. Salsa Cutthroat starts in the low $3,000 range but you can find sale prices in local shops, 1x, hydraulic, and clearance for mtb tires. A Cutthroat with 2.2 Race kings is a pretty efficient go anywhere bike.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
The Lauf is a great bike, but I'm not sure it meets the budget requirements.
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SixZeroSixOne
1 month ago
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Dave Tolnai
1 month ago
1) An "all road" bike would suit, yes. The 1x requirement is very limiting here.
2) This feels way more complicated than just getting hydraulic brakes! There's a few out there with cable actuated hydraulic calipers as well. I dunno...is full hydraulic really that much to ask? I think CUES will really change expectations here.
3) Ya. I've been looking. Really just down to price point/size. Haven't found anything that works.
4) I think she would hate that.
It's a weird space, for sure. She doesn't need full gravel, but that seems to be the only way to get the 1x drivetrain. I also don't want to build her a weird frankenbike.
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lazybum
1 month ago
I look at trail for gravel too. MTBs mostly have the same offset but it's all over the place for gravel bikes.
Seems like a lot of times a steep HA is paired with low offset, or vice versa.
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shortyjim
1 month ago
- You can not change a top tube length without affecting toe overlap and front wheel placement, and drop bars are not usually well suited for slack head tube angles. Find a good fitter.
- Kona and Jamis both have some decent offerings under $2500 (all monies listed in USD). State even has an AXS bike in that range. Pls buy from a bike shop tho .
- In 1995, a decent bike cost $1000. A coke cost $0.50, and my rent was $125. If you’re looking for something decent and new, then you should recognize that your cash isn’t worth what it used to be, and there’s a good chance that new bikes (which have largely been unaffected by inflation) will start getting more expensive really soon. Maybe ask your local shops whether they have anything on the floor that fits the bill - that’s where you might be able to save some dough. Waiting for an elusive, cheaper, newer part may not be the correct move in the current climate.
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Kelyn Mcintosh
1 month ago
The sizing thing has always bugged me with mountain bikes too. I'm 5'10" which according to Google is the average height for a Canadian man. It also puts me right in between medium and large on almost every brands bikes
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Mike Kittmer
1 month ago
The Marin’s all the way. Got myself a, what they call GSX-FS, which is basically a late 90’s hard tail complete with 60mm fork but with 1x drivetrain, 68 degree head angle, 74 sets angle and 700 x 42 tires. It is all things…tour, gravel (90’s XC), commuter that can take the bits of single track you sneak in on the way home (urban XC as I call it), etc. Seems this particular model with the Suntour GVX didn’t sell well enough (glad a snagged one) but there are a few versions with carbon fork. Oh, and the reach is longer on these flat bar models. Hallelujah.
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ShawMac
1 month ago
Getting into maintaining and upgrading basic drop bar bikes coming from the mountain bike world was one of the most frustrating experiences ever. When my wife wanted her own bike, supplies were limited so we found a bottom of a barrel Liv with Claris components and the mountain biker in me thought "well it is good frame, I will just min/max upgrade it to improve it up to the standard to the models we could get". Holy shit was that ever an un-educated mistake.
It is basically impossible to upgrade individual components and you need to buy an entire groupset, the cost of which was significantly more than the cost difference between the two levels on a complete bike. The Claris groupset is garbage, especially the front 2x shifting, and especially compared to how good Sora is.
She doesn't ride enough to justify dropping serious coin to upgrade the bike. So the only upgrade she has gotten is an Chinese made narrow wide chainring to make it 1x so the grinding stops. It also isn't worth dropping even ore serious going to upgrade my ride with 105 to move the Sora over to hers.
The Cues looks promising, but still feels expensive but maybe not compared to the stick shock of hydraulic road groupsets.
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SomeBikeGuy
1 month ago
Salsa Journeyer GRX 810 700c. They make a 1X version that's currently on sale for $1999.99 USD. 1 X 11 GRX, hydro brakes, decent enough geometry, lots of mounts for things like fenders and bags if that's your jam, all on a decent if unspectacular aluminum frame. It's even a decent shade of British racing green.
Or if you want a proper, mountain bike inspired gravel bike go get her a Santa Cruz Stigmata. It's everything you want if your way too long article is to be believed. Assuming you don't care about crap like fork and/or toptube mounts the only downside is that it starts at $5200 CAD with SRAM Apex mechanical 1X12 but hey, it's only money right? Plus it comes in cool colours and owning one automatically makes you as fast as Keegan Swenson.
You're unlikely to see CUES drop-bar bikes from most major brands until late 2025 or early 2026.
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Hugo Williamson
1 month ago
Pace 429, configure it how ever you wish.
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atkach
1 month ago
Grumpy humor aside... Definately over thinking this one. I was a die hard MTB only kind of guy until moving to Revelstoke. Sounds odd right? Revy is probably one of the best MTB areas in BC... but the exploring to be done on a gravel bike is also truely epic.
Figure out the use case. Just throw a leg over something and see how it feels, make sure to get a reasonable group set with hydraulic brakes and try not to spend too much. Yes, gravel is a different catagory but I would argue that the stability and comfort of gravel is essentially what 95% of road bikers are actually wanting. How many people do you see on 10,000$ road bikes that are actually getting 10,000$ advantage, right? Really just a bit more comfort, stability, and expanded use is actually what a lot of those people really would benefit from. Having not been on a road bike for over 15 years, getting on a gravel bike was eye opening.
Yes 2x sucks for MTB but the GXR is very very good and better for gravel/road. Mechanical disc has its place if simplicity is more important than power (remote bikepacking) and size is just a number until you actually throw a leg over it.
I used to make fun of gravel bikes and the whole thing, thinking it was a fad to make more money. But, I would now argue, as a MTB guy, that it offers very similar adventure and escape an MTB does and even more in some cases. It is crazy for me but I know am putting together crazy epic road/forest road rides for next summer and getting super stoked. Plus, as Cooper would likely be fond of pointing out, you can do so much with these things. They can be your commuter, grocery ride one day and then right off into an epic in the great unknown the next. Bikes are so awesome these days! In BC all those forest road we use to build and access trails... well there are a ton more to go see where the hell they go on a gravel bike. BC's adventure forest road riding is truely endless.
I love getting into the details of tech as much as anyone but for this one... Just go ride a bike and have fun with a new way of exploring the world.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
"just go ride a bike and have fun"
here here.
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Reed Holden
1 month ago
I think you need to rethink the 2x drivetrain. 1x is good for really steep terrain where you can ditch part of your range but for a lot of city stuff, my wife rides her big ring all the time. The big ring is only a 46. 1x is simpler but my wife gets why 2x is better and doesn't mind it as a result. Once I told her about the smaller jumps and better cadence optimization, she never looked back. And the shimano front derailleur can shift under load.
There is a reason it is barely put on any bikes. I think the reason it starts at a higher price point is because no one wants it except for some person who really knows that they do want it. And they are not buying entry level.
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Frorider
1 month ago
Thx for posting this. Anyone hanging out on a gravel forum or site sees plenty of experienced riders with relatively little budget limitation going for 2X for the advantages.
Then there’s the Radavist or ride around the world riders who swear by cable activated brakes for the simplicity and repairability in the field.
Personally I’m die hard 1X and hydraulic but I recognize the validity of their argument.
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Couch_Surfer
1 month ago
Agree on this.
I have 1X on my gravelish bike (CX frame) and I'm regularly a half step between the right gear for the cadence I want. Also I don't have a low enough gear for the one absolute shit pitch from Twin Bridges to Hyannis and I spin out on any decent descent.
I really should have pulled the trigger on a replacement 2X system when Shimano was blowing out gruppos about a year ago.
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Cooper Quinn
1 month ago
But like... 2x systems don't necessarily have a lower gear. 2x GRX, with the larger rear cassette option, has a significantly higher low gear than my XPLR setup with a fairly large front chainring. The charts don't lie there - I pedal that section you're mentioning fairly regularly and I'd absolutely rather do it in 40x46* on my Landyatchz than the GRX I review.
Yes, there's reduced resolution (especially in some areas), but especially if you're by yourself I find this pretty irrelevant?
I dunno. I'm all for both systems existing, because there's valid arguments for each.
*Sometimes I run a 42t front ring which puts me in a little big higher low gear than the Shimano would, but that's when I'm feeling strong and it's less relevant.
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Mark
1 month ago
Or go for broke and run 3x and instantly be able to grab a whole ton of range for those surprising steeps when you don’t have a lot of gas.
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Couch_Surfer
1 month ago
I only use 3X for my e-bike.
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Couch_Surfer
1 month ago
All good points and my preference is most likely coming from spending more time on my road bike in the last 10 years than a mountain bike. I find being a half step off gear really annoying if cruising around.
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unpop
6 days, 21 hours ago
They don't necessarily have a lower gear (that depends on the set up) but they do have a much larger range and are also more economical.
Even when simply comparing an "archaic" GRX 400 (10 speed) to Sram GX (12 speed), the GRX400 wins.
GRX400 (44/28 + 11-36 cassette) = 514% range
Sram 1x12 (any front ring + 10-50 cassette) = 500% range.
And this comparison isn't even apples to apples given the price increase on a 10 tooth cog free hub and 10 tooth cog cassette compared to an 11 tooth HG hub and cassette.
If we were to compare more fairly, we would compare a Sram 11-50. Which has a shockingly less 455% range.
And thats keeping within the Shimano stated capacity specs. A lot of people add wolf tooth road links and push this difference much further with an 11-40 cassette.
The issue I see 1x people having is they are always debating on which front ring to go with because they are either weighing the downhill speed against climbing ability. You don't have this problem with a well chosen low range double. 28 front ring with a 36 cog can climb anything.
the other benefits are
- chain line, quieter bike on road
- smaller cog jumps = better cadence
- an 11-36 cassete replacement is $40 compared to Srams $300 cassette replacement
- not to mention the price difference in chains
* so your cost of consumables goes wayyyy down. Ive felt this first hand because I used to run sram 1x12 on a gravel bike and then switched over to a 2x system.
I really think the lengths that people go to in order not to have a front derailleur is a bit silly. I love a 1x12 on a mountain bike, because im typically not using my MTB on road. but for a lot of people the gravel bike ride starts at their front door, and this is why a lot of people prefer 2x10, 2x11 or 2x12. I personally think a 2x10 is more than enough. And I'd honestly take a 2x9 before going back to 1x12 on a gravel bike.
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motdoc
1 month ago
If you buy a Fairlight Secan in purple I believe she will love you more.
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Dan Lees
1 month ago
My mate has a Secan in their purple Plum it's a very very nice colour bike.
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Brian Goldstone
3 weeks, 5 days ago
2x all the way. Had always been using my cross bike for “gravel” for the past 20 years. When I got a proper gravel bike 7 years ago was immediately not liking the 1 x setup as I found myself spinning out. Wanted my next gravel bike to have 2x but it has a motor instead so that’s moot. Literally.
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Vincent Edwards
3 weeks, 3 days ago
Hmmm. On my MTB I’m kind of a snob for great brakes. These days I really like Magura MT7s.
On my gravel bike I’m happily running those Tektro Spyre Mechanical brakes you don’t seem to even want to consider, and I’ve never felt short on power or control. Sure, it helps to run high quality compression free brake lines and I do have to adjust pad contact once a month or so. But when I look at upgrading to something like GRX 1x the cost just doesn’t seem worth it! It’s well over $1k.
My general recipe for a good gravel bike - find a $2,500 to $3k model with components you like (mechanical 1x for me) that fits you well. Steel, carbon, and aluminum frames are all ok so long as they were designed well. Replace the crap wheels with something much better in the $1k range. Go ride.
After putting on a decent amount of miles, replace bar and saddle if needed.
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