Downhill bikes are Psychotic
We've covered it in the past, but believe it or not my background isn't drop bars or cross-country. For a long time - and most of my formative years - all I owned was downhill bikes (well, and a dirt jumper). There was no bike I owned that you could realistically think about pedaling. This was, in my mind, a logical extension of alpine skiing - downhill bikes were a powder day every day. And for a time there, downhill bikes were kinda... it. Categories like "enduro" hadn't been invented yet, downcountry sure as hell wasn't a thing*. Options were downhill bikes, or a "freeride" bike that weighed the same. Maybe you knew someone who had an Intense Uzzi in all its seat-masted glory and they pretended to pedal it around. Considering all I really did was shuttle, I shied away from "freeride', and stuck with "real" big bikes.
*I owned a 4" travel Kona Bear-Deelux that I raced dual slalom on, repleat with the requisite orange-rollered, silver plated MRP guide. With air shocks on both ends, and aggressive tires... maybe I was riding "downcountry"? !
But then things started to change (I moved to Vancouver, for one thing), and like many of us I drifted away from true dowhill rigs and into the realm of what we now know as enduro or long-travel trail bikes. And as these bikes continued to improve into the incredible machines they are today, the memory of proper DH rigs faded from memory, and I was slowly boiled into a place of "hey, these things are nearly the same as DH bikes now and you can pedal them! This is great!"
I'd be lying if I said that through the past decade and a half or so without a dowhill bike I didn't know what I was missing or want one to some degree. But there was never really a reason to buy one. I pedal most of the time, I don't live by the best DH and shuttle mountain, and despite it being one of the reasons I originally moved to Vancouver, I very rarely have time for the Whistler Bike Park. The memories were there, faded, but somehow I'd even managed to convince myself that even Dirt Merchant is just "better on a trail bike".
The reality is trails like Dirt Merchant are actually pretty good aboard a trail bike. But when things get rough and fast, there's absolutely no question about what's "better".
If you've never been to the bike park, should you go? Absolutely. Should you take a trail bike? Sure, run whatcha brung.
I imagine what I've done here is like quitting cocaine, and spending the next couple decades drinking beer. You're still going to the party, you're still having fun! Its basically the same! Beer is great! Who needs that white stuff, anyway?! I can party with alcohol!
That illusion came crashing down around me hard last month when a big box from Spain showed up in the mail, filled with a Mondraker Summum Carbon R. And from the get go, its been an experience. Pedaling out of the garage to go bed brakes in, long-forgotten sensations triggered the dopamine receptors. And as soon as I dropped into the first proper trail aboard it... holy hell, this is partying. Big triple clamp fork, stiff chassis, huge travel; it was that first big rip off the glass coffee table after decades away*.
*it's also at this point that for whatever reason I feel the need to explain to a bunch of random strangers on the internet and say that I've never been really any kind of partier with hard drugs. This is just how I imagine the experience. I've pretty much always just stuck to alcohol, but that really kills my analogy here.
Yeah. That race.
I'm headed to the 25th Anniversary of Psychosis. For those unfamiliar, this isn't a two-minute long World Cup course (that'd be scary, too). The course record stands over 11 minutes, and it starts with the infamous Dead Dog, a trail that has an average grade of nearly 48%. To say I'm glad to be on a full-bore DH bike rather than entering the hardtail category is an understatement.
We should cover some basic bike specs here, but with some caveats. This isn't going to be a review per se; some aging dad reliving his youth on the first DH bike he's spent real time on in decades isn't helpful for anyone shopping nuances between this and the newest V10 or Session. I have basically zero relevant comparables, just ancient memories, and we'll delve into this subject in more detail, but downhill bikes are akin to halo cars in many ways. They're expensive marketing exercises for brands, not significant profit centers.
There's no sense in me reviewing this in any traditional sense anyway; downhill bike reviews happen on Sundays between the tape. And for whatever that's worth, this bike has been pretty successful lately; with both a World Cup Downhill and Hardline wins under Ronan Dunne in 2024.
Its impossible to show in photos how neat-o the color changing paint is, and how wild the wide-but-thin top tube is.
The bike is based on Mondraker's "Zero Suspension System", with a couple of short co-rotating links.
The shock isn't attached to the front triangle, and is instead compressed from both ends. There's a lot you can tune with suspension systems like this, and Mondraker runs it throughout their range of bikes.
Mondraker has been on the "long front end train" for longer than just about anyone thanks to Cesar Rojo; they call it "Forward Geometry", and while no longer unique to the brand, it's part of why they run this little tiny 25/30mm direct mount stem.
With bars cut to my standard 780mm, the only real component choice of note here is probably Code RSCs over SRAM's dedicated DH Maven. With 220/203mm rotors, there's no shortage of stopping power.
Both the fork and shock are from Fox's Performance line, and lack a couple of knobs to twiddle that I'm used to having. But after a spring swap, I've found a happy place with the rear end, and adding a volume spacer got me there up front.
The other end of these is gonna get pretty warm on Dead Dog.
The course record stands over 11 minutes, and it starts with the infamous Dead Dog, a trail that has an average grade of nearly 48%. To say I'm glad to be on a full-bore DH bike rather than entering the hardtail category is an understatement.
This whole experience has also been challenging and frustrating, slowly trying to build back speed and largely just trying to remember to stay off the brakes and let the bike do the work. The Mondraker DH racing heritage is ingrained in there and this is not a bike that does well ka-chunking around in the slow jank. Give the wagon wheels some high speed, some rough stuff, big Gs, shitty landings and it comes into its own. There's no real need to finesse and the harder you push this thing, the better the whole bike comes alive and works. Every day I'm on it, I feel a bit better, but there's real commitment involved and I'm still not trusting the bike enough (...or looking far enough ahead). I've been chasing some suspension and setup around as well; just as I get to to a good spot, I trust the bike more, start going faster, and have to start fiddling again. We're getting somewhere though, and having a riot along the way.
See what I said about "looking ahead"? Cornering this sled still catches me out; loading everything up takes so much longer than snappy little 34lb 170mm travel enduro bikes.
I have to say, I'm impressed with the comparative "value" here. I know that's a rich thing to say about a bike that costs 8,500 USD, but clear back in the mid 2000s, you could easily spend about $5,500 US on a sled. That's almost dead even with basic inflation; compare that to how easy it is to blow $15,000 on a trail bike these days if you have money to set on fire, and suddenly it seems a little more reasonable.
So first, let's go racing. And then, let's ride this thing for a bit and see what happens. I'm not unique; I know plenty of "us" who drifted away into enduro sleds that still occasionally dream of a downhill bike in the stable again. Is it worth it? Should you get one? Let's find and annihilate some rough stuff and find out.
We are so back.
Comments
DanL
3 days, 21 hours ago
There is nothing like a DH bike used in the place they were meant to be used. I had a full year with one as I just had to know. If you can, do it, even if only for a brief, torrid affair.
Good to see how much you're loving it. It might persuade me again haha
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Cooper Quinn
3 days, 20 hours ago
They're so, so good.
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DanL
3 days, 19 hours ago
Damnit. I know. I know so hard.
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Bryce Borlick
3 days, 21 hours ago
Friday 7pm, meet at art gallery for urban assault
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Cooper Quinn
3 days, 20 hours ago
Can't wait to huck into some parking lots and make stair gaps great again.
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Pete Roggeman
3 days, 16 hours ago
Make stair gaps great again - bookmarking here as a t-shirt idea
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Perry Schebel
3 days, 20 hours ago
oh man. i used to live out in the valley back in the freehuck era & we'd make the commute to van for epic urban sessions. so many stair gaps & gross flat drops were had.
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Andy Eunson
3 days, 15 hours ago
Oh boy urban tales remind me of the early 80s. We would ride to the parking structure behind Bental, sneak in and take the elevator to the top. Then ride down the spiral to the second level and repeat until we were dizzy. So much fun. Might have involved a few wobbly pops carried in our Carradice saddle bags up at the top. Then to Gladys’s on Fourth Ave for a belch and home fries.
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fartymarty
4 days, 5 hours ago
Cooper, you're brave. I absolutely wouldn't trust myself on a modern DH sled. It would be fun but high risk. At least a shorter travel rig holds you back. But given you're racing Psychosis you've picked the right tool for the job and power to you.
For me, having not ridden a DH bike since the mid naughties when they had 26" wheels a modern "trail"* bike is as good if not better than the last DH bike I rode and you can pedal it around. Modern DH bikes have come a long way since then and above my pay grade.
*160/140 40lb coil sprung 29er with stupid slack geo (basically a short travel DH bike).
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Cooper Quinn
3 days, 20 hours ago
They definitely require some serious commitment (and the resultant speed) to work; the consequences are real.
You're not wrong - I'd put most modern trail bikes up against ancient DH bikes any day of the week (there's a bunch of folks racing..."period correct" bikes at Psychosis. They're possibly more insane than the hardtailers).
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StranjBikes
3 days, 11 hours ago
I though long and hard about racing my RM9 vs my new Jedi, in the end the Jedi won
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grambo
3 days, 19 hours ago
I feel this comment. I had DH bikes from around 2015-2018 with a WBP season pass and was up pretty much every weekend, in addition to shuttling Cypress. Absolutely loved it and it helped me progress my riding a lot. Sold the DH bike when my first kid was born, partly as I knew getting away for full days to Whistler would be tough, and partly because the risk/consequence of a crash is so much higher. Fast forward 6 years and I'm itching for some park days on a big rig, but one thing I know is you need a lot of time aboard one to get up to speed safely. I've rented a V10 from Evolution for a single day a couple times over the past year and it isn't until the end of those days that I start to even feel comfortable going faster.
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Onawalk
3 days, 16 hours ago
I dont think I can let yo have that fantasy......
A modern trail bike is good (assuming we arent talking about a Slash, or Spire or Range) but they still dont hold up against an old DH bike.
My wife had an older 26" wheeled Scott DH bike, and although it was way too small for me, I'd get on it for a half lap while she would pilot my Sentinel. It was so incredibly capable.
Side note, You can buy a pretty good condition Aurum, or Flatline, swap it to a 275 front, and have a great time with little investment. Helps to save the "trail" bike getting beat in the park
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fartymarty
3 days, 5 hours ago
It's the extra 120mm of wheelbase, 29 wheels, 2 degree slacker HA (62 v 64) and cÖils both ends that does it for me. My old Keewee Cromo 8 was a beast but the slackened Murmur is just better.
A 10 year old DH bike would be a different story tho.
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Offrhodes42
3 days, 23 hours ago
Back in my 20s and 30s I said I would never own a DH bike. I was a XC guy. Now that I have broken into my 50s, have a son that loves going to Highland Mountain, and became a fan of longer travel trail bikes, a DH bike had to come into my life 1.5 years ago. We go to the park 40+ times a year. Having the right tool for the job is the mindset I am in now. Plus, having the financial situation to have a garage full of bikes helps too. If you can only have 1 or 2 bikes, there is no need for a DH bike. If you have the ability to afford multiple bikes, go to a lift serviced park often, and like to go fast then a DH bike is definitely worth it. The difference between riding my Stumpjumper EVO and Trek Session 8 on the same trails at the park is drastically different IMHO.
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Mammal
3 days, 20 hours ago
I also spent a number of years with performance on a DH bike being my primary biking goal, and that peaked between '04-'08 when I dedicated most of my existence to either racing, or shaping the rest of my life so I could race. I stopped racing, went back to school for more years than I care to admit, but I never got rid of the DH Rig. It was old and outdated, but it still allowed me to get "that big rig feeling" again, unlike the other bikes in the stable.
Moving from the Island to North Van really sparked things back up. Old NV friends that still had and regularly rode their Rigs, and easy-access Cypress trails that could make real use of what Rigs had to offer. I swapped frames around, played the min/max upgrade game back and forth until I had a pretty decent ride (still 27.5). Piloting true DH Rigs is a different kind of practice, and provides a different sensation, compared to riding bikes meant to pedal up stuff and turn sharply. I'm 44 years old, but still having as much fun as ever on The Rig. I'm super thankful Former-Self for keeping one in the stable at all times, even if there were spans of life where I didn't "need" one.
Edit - Forgot to mention that Former-Self raced Psychosis twice previously, in '05 and '06. Dead Dog is more insane than words can describe, and I don't think I could convince Present-Self to even ride that again, let alone race it. Even with the advantage that current machines have over the ones I rode then, Uh-Uh, no way. Good on you for setting your sights on such a lofty comeback mission.
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mrbrett
3 days, 15 hours ago
Standing at the top of Dead Dog scared me. Like that feeling you get when you look over a balcony railing and are higher than you expected.
Requires serious commitment. Big respect to anyone that can ride it.
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Cooper Quinn
3 days, 14 hours ago
In for a penny, in for a pound.... right?
Honestly I'm more concerned about the road gap - 12x30 is no joke.
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Mammal
2 days, 18 hours ago
From my memory, once you commit to trying it, the road gap was extra easy compared to dead dog. And I'm not one who tends to hit huge gaps.
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Cooper Quinn
2 days, 11 hours ago
For sure. It's a high speed slightly downhill mega wide boardwalk with a several-semi-truck sized landing.
Its super easy. Just ride off the end at speed. It's also... large. Hahahaha
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Jotegir
3 days, 21 hours ago
As one of the seemingly few regular readers who both owns a downhill bike and keeps a season pass to the local mountain, all I'll say is welcome back brother, we missed you.
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Cooper Quinn
3 days, 20 hours ago
Yeah, if I lived somewhere I was regularly on a chairlift, I'd absoutely have owned one of these things all along, I think.
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Sandor Boros
1 day, 6 hours ago
Cooper Quinn!
Thanks for this! I cannot wait to cheer you on you brave man! You have got this!
I will be dropping in early, scared sh$?%(#@less, on my weiner dog style homebrew hardtail.
If I make it down in one piece, I will be sure to lose my voice from the crowd while y`all be tearing it up.
#longlivechainsaw
Good luck, have an epic time and I will see you in a few days!
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Kyle Dixon
3 days, 23 hours ago
Aha! Knew It!
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chacou
3 days, 22 hours ago
"...remember to stay off the brakes and let the bike do the work."
100% the difference between a DH bike and an enduro bike at the park. Riding park laps on a 170/160 enduro bike along with buddies on proper DH bikes they slowly creep out ahead on flow sections and jumps and then once the jank starts they're gone while I'm picking my way through.
I miss having a Giant Glory in the stable, but there'll be another DH bike in my future.
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Cooper Quinn
2 days, 10 hours ago
Yep. Gotta trust it and let the bike do the work. It's those situations exactly; some combination of rough/fast/steep where you'd be controlling speed on a smaller bike and... you really need to just let the big bike do what it does for the best results. It's hard, haha.
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JT
3 days, 19 hours ago
The times I got to ride a dedicated sled on proper terrain being lead out by proper rippers in my younger/industry years were some of the funnest albeit scariest times of my life. Nothing like ripping a DH course blind and having the point guy yell out, "OFF THE BRAKES!" before coming into an unknown to me road gap. Think it took me a week to poop again I was puckered so much. Damn was that fun, damn am I happy I listened and didn't dead sailor the thing.
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Timer
3 days, 2 hours ago
Very nice looking sled!
For Psychosis, may I suggest investing in some better brake rotors? SRAM Centerline are quite thin and don’t shed heat very well. At least SRAM HS2. Even better to check if Code calipers work with the new crop of 2.3mm thick disks (Hope Standard, TRP R1, Formula Monolitic).
Or get some Galfer Shark rotors to stay with the bike’s theme of Spanish and expensive. :D
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GB
3 days, 19 hours ago
Yes my friend still pedals his 32 pound Intense Uzzie up hills . It's a beautiful climbing bike and it's a hoot pointed down hill.
I personally love the Intense M9 . Such beautiful bikes and incredibly strong .What bores me are long incredibly stable very predictable 29ers.
I have thrown my ass over a mullet Santa v10 and a full 29 er Santa V10 . On Cypress gnar .
There is a marginal time delay from steering input . And you can't pump off roots you just coast over everything maintaining or picking up speed . If I was racing I get it. 29ers fast .
I ride for fun .
Dh bikes realy nice DH bikes can be had for 1500 to 2000 $ used .
Having trouble riding small wheels ? Maybe it's you .
Pick up a used Wilson , Demmo or Santa DH bike. For a song . Have fun!
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Mammal
3 days, 19 hours ago
They can definitely be found or pieced together for a really good deal. I've got a 27.5 Aurum, and when it comes to the terrain DH bikes are made for, it vastly out performs my 29-equipped enduro bike. Stability and Smash-ability for miles.
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XXX_er
3 days, 9 hours ago
20-ish years ago I remember getting really tired of the shuttle scene, it was always slow/ screwy and invariably somebody would break a part or a bone so I ditched the freeride bike and got something that could be pedaled uphill
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Cooper Quinn
2 days, 10 hours ago
100%. It's a massive pain in the ass... unless you live by a bike park you basically can't ride by yourself.
But f*** the bikes are good.
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Tjaard Breeuwer
3 days, 9 hours ago
Just for fun I had a look at the DH bikes from brands my shop sells:
Trek and Specialized both max out at a L, and Santacruz at an XL. So, at 6’5”/196cm, I guess they are not for me.
Good deal, since I would use it for 1 or 2 rides per year, and struggle to go fast enough to make one come to life.
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ShawMac
3 days, 16 hours ago
Cooper, you should be doing the Whistler BC Cup this weekend!
I had a sorta mid-life urge a couple of years ago at the age of 42... I said to myself "I have never owned a proper "big bike" and pretty soon my body is going to aged out of one. Act now" and I went out and bout a 2018 GT Fury for a bit too much money due to covid pricing, and then overhauled it. No bolt went untouched.
I love my 135mm Banshee Prime, and from every perspective, it is a nicer, more suitable, easier to ride well, bike. But that old scratched up Fury.... I LUUUUUUST for that bike. Just the raw adrenaline and fear of what it can ride through just gets me going. I rarely get to ride it because I don't have a WB pass, and none of my friends have similar shuttle rigs, but it still captivates my attention just to look at that beast.
By DH standards, I am slow as molasses, but I still love every minute of it. It inspired me to do the Stevie Smith memorial race last year and will again this year. I even try to convince myself a newer DH rig would be a good investment even though my trail bike gets ridden at a 10:1 ratio.
It is an addiction for sure.
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Cooper Quinn
3 days, 15 hours ago
Ha, a couple people have suggested the BC Cup! That'd be cool, but getting one weekend during the school year (my partner is a teacher) is hard enough, so there's no way I'm getting two.
"I even try to convince myself a newer DH rig would be a good investment even though my trail bike gets ridden at a 10:1 ratio."
Before I answer this, are you looking for an enabler or an intervention?
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ShawMac
3 days, 10 hours ago
Enabler for sure. I tell myself that there haven't been much for improvements in DH frames since 2018 that would affect a hack like me. So I have just been satisfying myself with minor upgrades like Saint brakes and new tires.
Consider the Stevie Smith memorial at the end of August at Mt Washington. The atmosphere is outstanding. That was my first race last year and I am going back this year but bringing the family. The old people categories are pretty fun.
Memories of the physical exhaustion of that trail in mid 40s has been motivation for fitness all year. I can't even fathom Psychosis!
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Cooper Quinn
2 days, 10 hours ago
Odds I make any more races are low but I'll keep it in mind.. it'd be fun for sure.
You're gonna do great!
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