make or break

bumping to see if people's thoughts have changed much and if the current crop of bikes comes closer to what people want.

Short ST's on an XL or XXL bike kill me! I am running a full 21" ST on my Chromag now and am still needing to get a 200mm dropper, shorter ST's will not only look stupid but put a TON of extra strain on the frame and the seat post. This extra leverage equals broken frames and posts.

I do realize I am on the fringe with my height and size, but bike designers should know that users buying these larger frames are going to weigh more than their smaller counterparts and the frames should be designed with that in mind. I find a lot of companies design around a medium and make things a little longer for the bigger sizes. Forbidden looks to be doing things right, but still don't make a bike big enough for me...and I am not a freak..just 6'4"...but with long arms and legs. I guess this is why I have broken every full suspension bike I have ever ridden...my Banshee did last the longest though, very happy with that bike.

That and slack seat tubes...ugh....I'd love to ride a Knolly but I would be way too far over the rear wheel while climbing.

Oh...also, water bottles are awesome and I won't buy another bike without at least the possibility to mount one inside the frame.

i demo'd a Knolly Fugitive and found the seated climbing position very good. (6 5, 37 inseam).  i have an xl Meta TR 29 and it's seated position at full extension is good. i nerd out and measure bikes now before i buy. i have a Wixey angle gauge and bring it and a hockey stick to demo bikes so i can measure effective STA where i sit.  bikes have only gotten better and better in this regard, including bikes with slack real STA, such as my Meta. many bikes may not be as bad as you think, even if they don't have ram rod straight seat tubes.  tomorrow i'll measure the ESTA on the XL Fugitive at the LBS and report back.

Posted by: pedalhound

Short ST's on an XL or XXL bike kill me! I am running a full 21" ST on my Chromag now and am still needing to get a 200mm dropper, shorter ST's will not only look stupid but put a TON of extra strain on the frame and the seat post. This extra leverage equals broken frames and posts.

I do realize I am on the fringe with my height and size, but bike designers should know that users buying these larger frames are going to weigh more than their smaller counterparts and the frames should be designed with that in mind. I find a lot of companies design around a medium and make things a little longer for the bigger sizes. Forbidden looks to be doing things right, but still don't make a bike big enough for me...and I am not a freak..just 6'4"...but with long arms and legs. I guess this is why I have broken every full suspension bike I have ever ridden...my Banshee did last the longest though, very happy with that bike.

That and slack seat tubes...ugh....I'd love to ride a Knolly but I would be way too far over the rear wheel while climbing.

Oh...also, water bottles are awesome and I won't buy another bike without at least the possibility to mount one inside the frame.

Contrary to this is short legged dudes like myself who in the past had to deal with long seat tubes and run shorter droppers to fit a bike with appropriate reach. I'm 5'10" but 31" actual inseam, on my last bike with 460mm reach it had a 485mm seat tube. Had to swap the stock 150mm to a 125mm. New bike (same model but updated frame design) 462mm each 435mm seat tube - 50mm shorter! Still running the stock 150mm on it but could easily fit a 180 if not 200 OneUp.

That same bike in XXL is 502mm reach and 485mm seat tube (same as my old large) which I agree does seem too short for a guy like you. Maybe they have gone too far on the bigger frame sizes.

^502mm Reach is a M in my frame. My 175mm Dropper is bottomed out against the post collar. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Closer to what I want . Last year has been the most progressive IMO. More companies adding updated GEO.  And little things like more travel , water bottle in the frame. Coil overs with climb switches!!!

Long chain stays. Anything longer than 430. Long reach with long chain stays just make the bike too numb. Long reach and short CS keep the bike playful. Just my 2 cents

Posted by: grambo

Posted by: pedalhound

Short ST's on an XL or XXL bike kill me! I am running a full 21" ST on my Chromag now and am still needing to get a 200mm dropper, shorter ST's will not only look stupid but put a TON of extra strain on the frame and the seat post. This extra leverage equals broken frames and posts.

I do realize I am on the fringe with my height and size, but bike designers should know that users buying these larger frames are going to weigh more than their smaller counterparts and the frames should be designed with that in mind. I find a lot of companies design around a medium and make things a little longer for the bigger sizes. Forbidden looks to be doing things right, but still don't make a bike big enough for me...and I am not a freak..just 6'4"...but with long arms and legs. I guess this is why I have broken every full suspension bike I have ever ridden...my Banshee did last the longest though, very happy with that bike.

That and slack seat tubes...ugh....I'd love to ride a Knolly but I would be way too far over the rear wheel while climbing.

Oh...also, water bottles are awesome and I won't buy another bike without at least the possibility to mount one inside the frame.

Contrary to this is short legged dudes like myself who in the past had to deal with long seat tubes and run shorter droppers to fit a bike with appropriate reach. I'm 5'10" but 31" actual inseam, on my last bike with 460mm reach it had a 485mm seat tube. Had to swap the stock 150mm to a 125mm. New bike (same model but updated frame design) 462mm each 435mm seat tube - 50mm shorter! Still running the stock 150mm on it but could easily fit a 180 if not 200 OneUp.

That same bike in XXL is 502mm reach and 485mm seat tube (same as my old large) which I agree does seem too short for a guy like you. Maybe they have gone too far on the bigger frame sizes.

Yeah, I even saw one manufacturer have all the same ST lengths across their whole range of sizes...just made no sense to me. Maybe it's hard to design a frame the works for short and for tall people...but I think it's more of a cost saver to try and reuse as many tubes as possible across the size range, stupid and lazy IMO.

Fugitive LT, size xl, measured ESTA at full seat extension, raised for my optimal (straight leg) seated pedaling position is 75.3 degrees. i have a 37" inseam.  maybe it's this that makes it (at least in part) such a good climber. my new Meta TR 29 checks in at 74 where i sit.  also checked the size L Druid they had in stock, 76 and change. 

i'm not sure where i stand on STA and just how important it is to me, but every bike that's a bit steeper i like a bit more. it's a bit odd feeling on the flats, but gets better as it gets steeper and that's when biking kinda sucks for me anyways.

In 2021...I am probabl going to buy a new hardtail and am really curious what is going tohappen until then. I read the article/feature/paid ad by Cotic about their new BFe - and I would love to testride one as well as a Stanton Switchback (frame size 18" and long), and compare these two with the current Stylus. I still ride my old-ish 26" Stylus and it feel slike a BMX.

Make:

Steep STA

Good BB drop

Short seat tube length 

Break:

Reach # from 2012 on 2019 bikes 

Full extension saddle heights closer to being over the rear axle than bb  

MY Bold New Graphic “upgrades”

650b 😂

Hmm, this is sort of related to that Future Of MTB's thread.

Actually yeah, there have been a few changes to the "make" list:

-Solid pedalling platform,

-If short travel 29 ; long travel 27,

-Reach would be about a cm longer than my old "long reach" number,

-Stack height & BB spot on,

-Aluminum frame might be preference as long as spec is high end.

Not that concerned about the seat angle, I've found moving the saddle forward a cm works.

Break list: Manufacturer is pushing e-bikes hard on mountain bikers.