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make or break

Feb. 10, 2016, 1:30 p.m.
Posts: 4837
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

I'd say mine is at the limit. No I've not actually ridden anything or seen anything that is in the too low range. Too much sag and mine is definitely functionally unrideable.

i think i found the limit here in this very short lived experiment. (~160mm travel):

it wasn't per se unrideable, but sure made you aware of your feet. felt pretty cool. when you weren't pedaling.

Feb. 10, 2016, 1:35 p.m.
Posts: 960
Joined: Feb. 28, 2014

I am very fussy about setting up a bike, but one thing that irritates me about some people's set ups are how how their bike's headtube is. I suppose most bikes I've owned, the headtube has been around 4" long, so I'm used to a certain height. A tall bar makes it feel like I can't get enough weight over the front. Can't be too low though. I suppose it's all relative to rider size.

I don't like the head angle too slacked out if its a trail bike. It makes climbing too awkward, and climbing is already hindered on these bikes. 66ish is what I like.

Water bottle mounts for me are a non issue as I get older. I sweat so damn much now that I can down a water bottle in one go. It might sound weird but I also don't like having extra things hanging off my bike. It throws me off hahaha

Feb. 10, 2016, 1:40 p.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Water bottle mounts for me are a non issue as I get older. I sweat so damn much now that I can down a water bottle in one go. It might sound weird but I also don't like having extra things hanging off my bike. It throws me off hahaha

I carry water in a bladder in the pack; I carry gatorade in the bottle, go through one or two a day depending how long of a day it is and how hot.

Feb. 10, 2016, 2:46 p.m.
Posts: 456
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

Low stack and/or short head tubes on bigger sizes. It's absurd that a tall person would need the same length head tube as someone who rides a small.

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

Feb. 10, 2016, 3:02 p.m.
Posts: 5738
Joined: May 28, 2005

Low stack and/or short head tubes on bigger sizes. It's absurd that a tall person would need the same length head tube as someone who rides a small.

i spoke to ian at chromag about this years ago. iirc the head tubes on all of their frames are the same length regardless of size. i thought this was nuts - he made the point that you can always add spacers or run higher-rise bars if you want to go taller, but (unless your kperras) you can't go lower than the static head tube measurement will allow

"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave

Feb. 10, 2016, 3:27 p.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I have quite a few spacers under my stem on my reign, they have super short head tubes….

Feb. 10, 2016, 3:31 p.m.
Posts: 456
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

i spoke to ian at chromag about this years ago. iirc the head tubes on all of their frames are the same length regardless of size. i thought this was nuts - he made the point that you can always add spacers or run higher-rise bars if you want to go taller, but (unless your kperras) you can't go lower than the static head tube measurement will allow

Nothing quite like adding 3cm of spacers and a 30mm rise bar to save manufacturers the hassle of building bikes that fit right.

How is it justifiable to vary top tubes and seat tubes but not head tubes?

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

Feb. 10, 2016, 3:33 p.m.
Posts: 5738
Joined: May 28, 2005

How is it justifiable to vary top tubes and seat tubes but not head tubes?

jesus, did you even read my post!?!?

"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave

Feb. 10, 2016, 3:34 p.m.
Posts: 456
Joined: Jan. 31, 2005

jesus, did you even read my post!?!?

Don't worry I'm with you. I'm just complaining :)

There's nothing better than an Orangina after cheating death with Digger.

Feb. 10, 2016, 4:33 p.m.
Posts: 1042
Joined: May 30, 2004

A wonky seat tube angles kills a bike for me. Gotta be soooo careful with the curved and offset seat tubes these days.

Too slack and my arse is behind the cassette and the bike won't climb without the front wheel popping up and wandering 1/2 way to Alaska. Too steep and my knees hit the bloody shifters when I'm turning on uphill switchbacks and I feel like I'm riding a time trial bike.

I really wish manufacturers would list an effective seat tube angle at a typical seatpost extension instead of at stack height. At 6'5" tall it is extremely hard to find an XL or XXL demo bike so buying a bike based on a geo chart is risky business.

Feb. 10, 2016, 5:40 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 12, 2007

I'll throw fork offset into the mix. People can look at head angle in isolation but it's only part of the issue. I had a Revelation on my Whishart hardtail when I first built it up and the bike felt great other than some annoying wheel flop. I changed the fork out to a Suntour Auron set to the same axle to crown and the handling is completely different. Zero wheel flop but still nice and stable with around 65.5 degree HA.

Similar with my daft old Balfa….Decent steering with an old Manitou Nixon but I swapped the fork out for a nice looking dinosaur of a White Brothers FR3 for a laugh. Again same axle to crown but quite a bit of understeer on corners this time.

treezz
wow you are a ass

Feb. 10, 2016, 6:26 p.m.
Posts: 11045
Joined: June 4, 2008

but i'm curious: what is the one aspect of a bike's design that can make or break it for you

A frame that MSRP's for $6,000.

If every frame but one was $6,000 I'd easily find a way to like it regardless of everything else.

Feb. 10, 2016, 7:16 p.m.
Posts: 27
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

A wonky seat tube angles kills a bike for me. Gotta be soooo careful with the curved and offset seat tubes these days.

Too slack and my arse is behind the cassette and the bike won't climb without the front wheel popping up and wandering 1/2 way to Alaska. Too steep and my knees hit the bloody shifters when I'm turning on uphill switchbacks and I feel like I'm riding a time trial bike.

I really wish manufacturers would list an effective seat tube angle at a typical seatpost extension instead of at stack height. At 6'5" tall it is extremely hard to find an XL or XXL demo bike so buying a bike based on a geo chart is risky business.

i got scoffed at once before for misinterpreting how a measurement was defined by the bike industry - one that made no sense in relation to how a person actually rides a bike. i agree it would be great to see some sort of industry standard measurement rules so people could make sense of things.

on topic, i've found reach [HTML_REMOVED] seat tube angle to be something that kills a bike for me. too far back and the front wanders, too far forward and your knees are hitting the bars.

i wonder if anybody builds mtb's from the rider out? maybe the advantage to getting a custom built bike.

context is everything

Feb. 10, 2016, 8:01 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Aug. 12, 2007

i wonder if anybody builds mtb's from the rider out? maybe the advantage to getting a custom built bike.

I went custom mainly because I'd always wanted a fillet brazed frame and jumped on an opportunity, but figuring out the geometry was a fun process. It was nearly two years ago when the process started and I wanted something longer and slacker than what was out there at the time, as I have a long torso and 'short' legs. These days it seems to fit with some of the more forward thinking European companies (Production Privee etc).

treezz
wow you are a ass

Feb. 11, 2016, 9:48 a.m.
Posts: 1029
Joined: Feb. 12, 2009

for me it's seat tube angle/reach/tt length, I have longish legs (for my height) and short arms/torso, if the angle is slack/reach long I end up having to stretch too far, even with short stems and it puts me in a horrible position for technical climbing, in addition to exacerbating old back/neck injuries. I'm really not into the super long new school geo that seems to be all the rage these days, I like a slightly more compact reach with a more upright body position, personally.

This for me too, but the opposite. I have long arms and short legs. On some of the older bikes, after a long descent, I would often miss the seat completely and sit down on the tire. As a result, I love the geo on the new bikes!

Chainstay length would be the second.

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