Im not against pipelines as a rule, but in that terrain, with the consequences that come with a spill, be it the pipeline or a tanker. Its absolutely absurd.
This is what it's all about. The insanity of the route. Yeah we know the shit is going to end up in China and subsequently the atmosphere, the corporatocracy is hell bent on it.
"I do like how you generally bring an open-minded and positive vibe to the threads you participate in"
- Morgman
I think the kindermorgan alternative is more likely to happen cuz there is already an existing pipline there
Not if the City of Burnaby has its way!
Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.
This is what it's all about. The insanity of the route. Yeah we know the shit is going to end up in China and subsequently the atmosphere, the corporatocracy is hell bent on it.
could everybody here please describe their vast knowledge of this insane route?
aside from myself,xxx'r is probably the only one who has a clue where the pipe will be laid.
Pastor of Muppets
could everybody here please describe their vast knowledge of this insane route?
aside from myself,xxx'r is probably the only one who has a clue where the pipe will be laid.
The route is f*cked. Seriously. I havent spent as much time as some in the Skeena watershed but there are very few people that have that dont think that this idea is ridiculous. Now couple that with the travel of tankers… and the consequences are too extreme to match the benefit…. and PARTICULARLY the distribution of the benefit. There are no doubt some people that will get rich(er) from this pipeline, if you think that is the average Northern BC citizen, then you need a serious lesson in economics.
so how else does one sell oil to the chineese then?
Ha Ha! Made you look.
so how else does one sell oil to the chineese then?
the popular thought is that we shouldn't…we should leave the oil in the ground.
Two thoughts here though (and don't forget,I'm not a fan of this pipeline,I just know it can't be stopped)…
- its our turn…for the most part,oil products have just appeared before our eyes without us having to be part of the mining and production chain. Its now our turn to be the producers and we must accept the risks that others have over the years.At least we have the comfort of strict enviro regs. and modern technology.
-the Chinese own much of the oil. ouch…..there's a pickle. What do we do about that?
Pastor of Muppets
could everybody here please describe their vast knowledge of this insane route?
aside from myself,xxx'r is probably the only one who has a clue where the pipe will be laid.
It isn't about the pipeline is it. Although Enbridges record of ruptured pipeline spills is hardly confidence inspiring. It's about the tanker route. All the Enbridge "world class" bullshit propaganda about the risk of a tanker running aground are vastly underestimated. Added to the fact that they don't know what the hell to do with a bitumen condensate spill in the first place. They are rolling the dice.
Tankers through those channels (plus 500 per year LNG tankers) with humpbacks, orcas, the whole amazing ecosystem. It's a fucking joke that would only happen in a corporatocracy/apathetic public situation.
"I do like how you generally bring an open-minded and positive vibe to the threads you participate in"
- Morgman
Kitimat is a very small area of the north coast which is for the most part pristine, the 1st nations issue is still and has always been the project killer, they still gotta get thru the Wetsuetin, the Haisla and the Gitgat … this ain't anywhere close to over
I'm against the pipeline personally, but between the Alcan plant and logging, Kitimat is far from pristine. The area that the proposed pipeline crosses on the other hand.
I think there are enough arguments against the pipeline without attempting to paint Kitimat as some environmentalists wet dream, it's an industry town, plain and simple.
the NORTH COAST is far more than just Kitimat which is a pretty small town at the end of the Douglas channel would be my point, paddle for a day out of kitimat or a couple of hrs by power boat and you are in the wilderness
For the Haisla and Gitgaat its their garden
I think there are enough arguments against the pipeline without attempting to paint Kitimat as some environmentalists wet dream, it's an industry town, plain and simple.
I dont really care about Kitimat per se… its the area around it that stands to be irreparably damaged if (when) something goes wrong with the pipeline that I care about.
the NORTH COAST is far more than just Kitimat which is a pretty small town at the end of the Douglas channel would be my point, paddle for a day out of kitimat or a couple of hrs by power boat and you are in the wilderness
For the Haisla and Gitgaat its their garden
Yup.
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.
When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.
I still think the most powerful argument against the pipeline by a country mile is climate change. The effects of an oil spill from the pipeline or a tanker are local, pristine or not, and a spill is merely possible, not inevitable.
Increasing the output of the tar sands on the other hand will make our already growing problem with climate change far worse and with the consent of Canadians if we keep relying on the goose they lays the tar eggs. We can all stand to lose a lot of money by limiting the output, but it is the single most important thing any of us can do to help curb the consequences that are already dire in the best case scenarios. Taking this much carbon from the ground and putting it in the air and oceans is insane.
This alone makes a spill in the mountains or Douglas Channel irrelevant and not worth quibbling over.
I am a hypocrite like the rest of us and use gas too, but that doesn't mean I can't see the obvious. Oil is a crutch and stopping us from innovating the solution, so let's limit the worst of it and let supply and demand take over from there.
I still think the most powerful argument against the pipeline by a country mile is climate change. The effects of an oil spill from the pipeline or a tanker are local, pristine or not, and a spill is merely possible, not inevitable.
Increasing the output of the tar sands on the other hand will make our already growing problem with climate change far worse and with the consent of Canadians if we keep relying on the goose they lays the tar eggs. We can all stand to lose a lot of money by limiting the output, but it is the single most important thing any of us can do to help curb the consequences that are already dire in the best case scenarios. Taking this much carbon from the ground and putting it in the air and oceans is insane.
This alone makes a spill in the mountains or Douglas Channel irrelevant and not worth quibbling over.
I am a hypocrite like the rest of us and use gas too, but that doesn't mean I can't see the obvious. Oil is a crutch and stopping us from innovating the solution, so let's limit the worst of it and let supply and demand take over from there.
I agree 100% with you here, but there is one problem that keeps bugging me the longer I think about it, and I think I have already posted something similar in another thread a while back.
The issue I begin to see even here in Europe is a mix of various issues all related:
1) A lot of people are climate-change tired, and quite a lot still does not give a damn. A lot of people change their consuming behaviour (grassroots like), buy fair trade stuff, grow their own veggies and the like - while others do not care, and probably never will.
2) The multinational corporations, the "global players" work alongside a lot of politicians who are in charge at the moment, for this term, the next couple of years - and these do not really care as well.
Lobbyism is common far and wide, be it when it comes to improving agriculture, economics or the issue with energy. All are related, and the question I still have is -
Do the powers that be really care about our sentiments? I am afraid they do not, and I have no idea what to do about it, because violence or anger is simply not the solution as has been shown thoughrout history.
"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer
I still think the most powerful argument against the pipeline by a country mile is climate change. .
disagree the only thing stopping enbridge is brown people with drums wearing button blankets
the NORTH COAST is far more than just Kitimat which is a pretty small town at the end of the Douglas channel would be my point, paddle for a day out of kitimat or a couple of hrs by power boat and you are in the wilderness
For the Haisla and Gitgaat its their garden
Curious…if the Haisla are truly against much of what's going on with northern gateway and LNG,why are they involved in joint ventures with much of the development and support service operations?
Pastor of Muppets
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