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how bout a good ol fashioned tire thread

Sept. 29, 2020, 9:01 p.m.
Posts: 22
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

DHRii makes a better front (and rear) tire than a DHF in every way.  Get the DHR. 

I can’t believe it took me this long to try the DHR up front. I’m even (gasp!) trying a 2.6 just for grins, which feels pretty great after a few rides in tech/loamy/wet. Fairly wide 32mm rims, so not sure how it would be on something narrower. Last front tire was an Assegai - good tire but I like the DHR better.

Sept. 30, 2020, 11:56 a.m.
Posts: 29
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

Get a 2.4 DHR2 Maxxgrip (if you can find them).  They're lighter than 2.5 DHF and brake better.

Sept. 30, 2020, 6:28 p.m.
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

What else is everyone looking at for winter boots? 

I'm a between - 

new schwalbe nobby nic v3 and Hans dampf in super ground casing, soft

Der baron Projekt 2.4 black chilli

Michelin wild enduro.

Sept. 30, 2020, 8:30 p.m.
Posts: 955
Joined: June 26, 2012

Posted by: Kenny

What else is everyone looking at for winter boots? 

I'm a between - 

new schwalbe nobby nic v3 and Hans dampf in super ground casing, soft

Der baron Projekt 2.4 black chilli

Michelin wild enduro.

Apparently Assegai Exo+ MaxxGrip has landed on shelves in a few local shops.

Between Wild Enduro and Der Baron, I found the Der Baron to handle wet roots a bit better, whereas the Wild Enduro digs into soft dirt like a claw.

Sept. 30, 2020, 11:19 p.m.
Posts: 29
Joined: Aug. 13, 2017

XR5 / SE5 F/R combo (Surrey UK so can get away with light casings) probably on 2.3 width.

Assegai Exo+ MG sounds interesting for my 511 wheelset.  I ran a DH MG for a while but it was too heavy / draggy for our local riding (lots of flat between trails) but tons of grip.

Oct. 1, 2020, 6:44 a.m.
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Yeah assegai maxxgripp exo+ probably worth considering. 

I'm on SE5/SE4 currently and like them but the SE5's large gap between the center and side lugs catches me out once in a while. The intermediate portion in between is pretty drifty and I lose the front wheel. 

Have been leaning towards the der baron as seems they rate so highly on slimy roots.

Oct. 3, 2020, 12:02 a.m.
Posts: 648
Joined: May 11, 2018

Posted by: Kenny

What else is everyone looking at for winter boots? 

I'm a between - 

new schwalbe nobby nic v3 and Hans dampf in super ground casing, soft

Der baron Projekt 2.4 black chilli

Michelin wild enduro.

I have a bunch of hans dampf's and take them off a few weeks after putting them on every time. I feel like the knobs are too soft/small and instead of digging in they bend and deform and don't really grab or grip. Won't ever buy them again.

Oct. 3, 2020, 5:27 p.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: April 5, 2020

Disclaimer: PNW rider, not afraid of wet, always running CushCore Pro, Mullet or full 29.

Currently on WTB Vigilante 2.6" F high grip light casing, 2.5" fast rolling tough R. I am really enjoying this setup in the moist and unpredictable. I can feel the many knobs grabbing constantly, and they do well on moist, slippery surfaces, but still outdone by der Baron Projekt on such surfaces. They feel compliant at lower pressures, and grip well in a variety of levels of dirt firmness. At higher pressures necessary to prevent corner knob folding in dry berms, they don't feel so compliant over rough surfaces, though they still are little grip fiends. The rear is wearing too fast. Front not at all. Also, the "light" 2.6" is significantly heavier (1300g) than the "tough" 2.5" (1150g), actual weights. But they roll quite well IMO.

I have also spent a little time on a Verdict Wet F (light HG) and Judge (tough FR) R, and that Verdict Wet is a madman in the loose. I'm not sure I've ridden better in loam. But this combo is not exactly fast rolling, nor is it light (1290g, 1380g, respectively). I see it as a great training setup (heavy tires -> muscles!) to inspire confidence in many conditions. I was able to get corner knobs to fold on hardpack berms without enough pressure, like the vigi, or any tire I suppose, but i was running pressures quite low (15-17 PSI, mind you with CC). But overall really a great tire for mobbin'.

I only recently found the limit of the Conti der Baron Projekt in deep mud. Otherwise they are excellent tires that grip in all things wet. I have been very impressed with their grip on wet rocks, roots, in (not-too-deep) mud, and surprisingly in the dry, too. They feel wooden and require lower pressures. They are nicely round and roll well, and aren't too heavy (1010-1050g). They hold up in corners. An excellent all-around tire, though if it was more often dry than wet, I'd look elsewhere.

Like the dBP, I find the Schwalbe Magic Mary 2.35" Addix soft SS to be quite nice up front in all conditions, and while it is better than the prior Trailstar compound on wet roots, it is still not as good as the dBP. It rolls OK on the front, and isn't heavy (910g). I have tried 2.6" MM with Apex Addix Soft, and thought it would be as good in hardpack as the 2.35", but it is not. It is more similar to the Verdict Wet, and there is a weight and rolling penalty (1140g), but that's nothing compared to the weight of the Verdict Wet. It (2.6" MM) might be just too big but not damped enough.

The Schwable Rock Razor used to work for me, but lately just hasn't been. I've tried Addix Soft in both SG and SS (all 2.35"), and while they roll fast, I have lost confidence in cornering grip. I used to like them more with the prior iteration (with respect to cornering). Now they are just the opposite of damped, and I find unstable. Maybe I've gotten used to the little bit of compliance that actual center knobs offer.

The Schwalbe Hans Dampf has improved, and is now good enough that I'd use it. I have tried Addix Soft 2.35" in SS (840g) and SG (1140g). It still rolls fast, and now grips and corners better than it used to. The corner knobs still just aren't good enough on hardpack berms, even with enough pressure. I like them as an all-around rear. They don't brake well in mud, and they wear kinda fast, but I think I'd still choose the Vigi 2.5" for the rear, which is unfortunately heavier than the SS, but I think corners better, grips better, brakes about the same. HD might be good if I'm not asking too much from my tire, like for more casual trail rides, but I tend to equip my bikes for the worst, not for the best. Still, it's fast-rolling.

I loved the 1st and 2nd gen E13 tires, so I tried the most recent iteration. I swear they're even slower now (they're certainly not faster, despite what the company advertises, at least in my experience), but I feel like they do not grip as well as they used to. I miss the taller knobs. When running enough pressure to support the corner knobs, they feel like little rocks, and I was not impressed with grip. I tried LG1ENr SS on the rear (1010g), and MoPo TRSr AT F (1060g). I was really sad that I didn't like them more. Maybe I'll give them another chance, but they didn't overwhelm me with grip, nor with speed, and they weren't a good balance of the two.

I have had great luck with the Michelin Wild Enduro tires - GumX all around (using F on F, R on R), and have also tried the MagiX F. They are great except when I am hunting for grip on hard, not-so-grippy surfaces (like a wet creekbed, or wet roots). But, they are great all arounders like Schwalbe MM/HD or WTB Vigi. The corner knobs hold up to hard cornering, and the casing isn't too compliant at the pressure that feels right. Rear wears out way before the front (I went through 2 rears in the lifespan of 1 front, and I'm not a rear-tire-dragger). I will likely try them again.

The Michelin Wil Rock'R2 is my favorite dry tire, hands down. Corners like nothing else on hardpack. Brakes well. Rolls OK. Durable. Not too heavy (1190g for 29" new Grip+ compound). They are my go-to dry tire, but I am in the PNW, so it's rare I get to run a dedicated dry tire.

I am looking forward to my next test of the Schwalbe Eddy Current, but the "old" ones (2.6" SG F, 2.6" SG R, both Soft). These also look like a great all-around setup that I can run a lower pressure and the huge knobs will still stand up, and since they're Schwalbe they might still roll OK (rounder profile) while cornering like crazy. They are heavy (29" F 1410g, 27.5" R 1340g), but really not much worse than the WTB stuff I'm liking.

I think that next I might try the new Michelin DH tires. Stiffer casing supports side knobs for cornering and allows for lower pressure which might improve compliance over rough terrain, improving grip in the rough, and in braking.

tl;dr

Dry: Michelin Wild Rock'R2

Wet & Sloppy: WTB Verdict Wet F, Judge R

Wet. Just wet: Conti der Baron Projekt

Mixed: WTB Vigi 2.5">2.6" = Schwalbe MM F 2.35">2.6", HD 2.35" R >>  Michelin Wild Enduro

PS

I am finding that as I've been running some larger tires to get more compliance on rough ground to inspire stability and confidence, these larger tires do not corner so well at the pressures that allow that compliance, leading to an unsupported corner knob, and knob folding. Unless I want to pump up these semi-plus tires to be too hard, the way to support the corner knobs better is with a stiffer casing, which creates, for all intents and purposes, a motorcycle tire (see; Eddy Current). So I am trying to find that balance of enough tire volume for compliance and durability, but small enough that the appropriate pressure that allows compliance is still sufficient to support the corner knobs, and the casing round enough to keep the corner knobs off the ground unless I'm actually trying to corner.

PPS

I have avoided many other tires due to their square profile (Hutchinson, Panaracer, Kenda, Vittoria), or questionable quality/performance (absence of track record), including Goodyear, Vee, Terrene.

I hope my tire addiction helps someone.

Oct. 3, 2020, 5:43 p.m.
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Whoa quite the first post, CT - thanks for the input!

I have der baron and der kaiser inbound. I mostly ride Seymour so grip on slippery roots and rocks but not super muddy and strong casing that likes lower pressure sounds about right. 🙂

Oct. 4, 2020, 11:33 a.m.
Posts: 246
Joined: March 6, 2017

I'm running Der Baron front and Der Kaiser rear and love them. Mostly ride steep roots at Burke but they handle the berms very nicely as well, lots of support. Also the Baron sheds mud so fast its crazy.

Oct. 4, 2020, 3:23 p.m.
Posts: 266
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Sweet man. Feel like Burke and Seymour have pretty similar tire requirements so that's great to hear. 

Do you find with the stiff casings you run a little less pressure?

Oct. 4, 2020, 4:44 p.m.
Posts: 246
Joined: March 6, 2017

Posted by: Kenny

Sweet man. Feel like Burke and Seymour have pretty similar tire requirements so that's great to hear. 

Do you find with the stiff casings you run a little less pressure?

Yeah on the front I run a couple psi less than I did on my Wild Enduros but my rear is always high 20s low 30s depending on conditions

Oct. 4, 2020, 6:48 p.m.
Posts: 955
Joined: June 26, 2012

Posted by: T-mack

I'm running Der Baron front and Der Kaiser rear and love them. Mostly ride steep roots at Burke but they handle the berms very nicely as well, lots of support. Also the Baron sheds mud so fast its crazy.

How do you find the Der Kaiser in back? Does it roll slow? Looks pretty aggressive.

Oct. 4, 2020, 7:55 p.m.
Posts: 246
Joined: March 6, 2017

Posted by: D_C_

Posted by: T-mack

I'm running Der Baron front and Der Kaiser rear and love them. Mostly ride steep roots at Burke but they handle the berms very nicely as well, lots of support. Also the Baron sheds mud so fast its crazy.

How do you find the Der Kaiser in back? Does it roll slow? Looks pretty aggressive.

Not at all, rolls very well. The center knobs are ramped pretty well so they carry decent speed.

Oct. 5, 2020, 7:36 a.m.
Posts: 27
Joined: Dec. 1, 2004

I just set up a set of Conti Baron and Kaiser yesterday after a summer on the Michi Wild Enduros. I haven't put them to a wet test, but i did aim at some roots i'd avoid. i dint die, this was a good thing. with the weather getting ready to turn, I look forward to testing out the wet performance. I normally run a MM up front, DHRII in the rear for winters here.

The Kaiser felt a bit faster rolling than the Michi out back on an easy logging road climb. it looks quite ramped.

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