D_C_ profile

Great photos. Looking good, Tim.

You have put into words something many of us have thought about. Nicely done.

Cool, that's great info. Thanks. I guess the moral is that aluminum should not be ruled out for a nice-riding hardtail.

I'd be interested to hear more about a direct comparison to your Honzo. At 7 lbs with a steep STA and short rear end, do you find your Honzo offers much more in the way of additional compliance or vibration damping over the aluminum bike? It sounds like you were quite happy with the ride on on the Chameleon. 

I have a Kona Taro (alloy Honzo) with a nice build and I have often wondered if the steel ride of the Honzo warrants the additional 2.5-3 lbs.

I'm a bit confused by your Minion comparison. Are the E13 tires more or less grippy?

On one hand: "(Minion DHF/Aggressor DHR ). What I noticed immediately was a loss in traction consistency across a variety of terrain and conditions and for the first time in a few months I was thinking about my tires again."

But then: "I swapped back to the Minions for my next ride, tire pressures were double checked and the same trail(John Deere, Mt Seymour) was ridden and sure enough I felt quicker on the Minions in the corners."

Not a bad looking bike for the money. Good luck!

Interesting design on the negative spring. I guess the goal is a similar result to Debonair without the need for a large volume negative air chamber? If they wanted to get rid of the dual air can, why wouldn't they just go to a single air can with a large negative chamber like the Fox Evol design, rather than bringing in the coil assist?

Are there versions with different negative spring configurations (equivalent to Debonair vs HV/standard Monarch cans), or just one version?

Thanks for walking us through the teardown.

It's all about what you're used to. Riding mainly on the Shore, I'm relatively quick on steep and awkward, but I am easily beat on fast and smooth trails by those who come from areas with trails like that.

Thanks Tim. I'm more asking about the fact that the rear suspension design relies on the seatstay flexing rather than having a traditional bearing or bushing pivot. It's not a design you see on many bikes, and I'm wondering if it has any noticeable drawbacks. But by the fact that you didn't comment on it, I'll take that as a no.

Did you notice any ride characteristics you would attribute to the flexing seatstay design?

What's up with that? Most shops in Van will give them to you for free, but used cardboard bike boxes in Whistler seem to carry value.

I went into one shop in Whistler and they gave me one, but said they normally ask for a six-pack. And I just saw one for sale on a Whistler Facebook group.

Obviously it's anyone's right to sell something if they can, but we're talking about something someone got for free with a new bike that would otherwise end up in the bin.

I am now on the Rootdown BA program. Thanks all for the advice.

My Pike is currently at 140, but I have a 150 air spring on order (backordered until early June). 140 actually feels pretty good. You can see the whole whack of spacers I'm running under the stem, so there is definitely room to increase travel without bars being too high.

Dropper post is coming as well. My KS Lev is currently being warrantied.

Compared to my Kona Taro, it feels slightly more stable though a bit less responsive as a result. The Kona liked to pick a line and pop around a bit more. The Rootdown trends more toward monster trucking. Also, I can't say I feel much difference in vibration damping going from alloy to steel. The Chromag seems to be more stiff than compliant.

Posted by: Ddean

Posted by: Ddean

I picked up the matte black Fox yesterday. Looking forward to trying it out.

It sure is light and I think looks pretty cool too.

Update: destroyed this helmet in a hard crash that left me with a separated shoulder, sublux'd ribs and a torn hamstring. I'm pretty busted up but nothing that wont heal. The Proframe has a 9inch crack all the way from the forehead to the back, but aside from some abrasions on my forehead around the area of the crack, my head is totally fine - no concussion. The helmet is DESTROYED.

I'm going to get another

Yikes! Thanks for taking one for the team. Glad you're here to tell the story.

Posted by: [email protected]

Posted by: D_C_

You can play with this to compare gearing: http://www.bikecalc.com/gear_ratios

I like this one because it makes it really easy to compare two setups: http://www.ritzelrechner.de/

That's a good one. Thanks!

You can play with this to compare gearing: http://www.bikecalc.com/gear_ratios

A simple upgrade like a longer-travel air shaft is worth considering, but a major upgrade upon purchase like a whole fork or entire drivetrain usually doesn't make much economic sense compared to choosing a complete bike with the spec you want from the start.

Most people run chainrings from 28t to 32t with a 42t cassette. A 30t ring on a 27.5 will give similar gearing to a 28t on a 29er.

Most bikes come stock with 125 or 150 mm dropper post. As a shorter guy at 5'8", I find 125 to be fine, but taller people I ride with complain about it not going low enough and will drop their post in the seat tube for descents.

$160 doesn't seem unreasonable. Dunbar was doing a special in January where they were charging just for parts but not for labour, and I think I paid $80 or so for the rebuild parts alone. I think they usually charge around $150 all in.

Thanks, that helps a lot. I think a 150 fork would be the ticket for me on a BA. I'm also glad to hear the seat angle doesn't feel bizarrely steep. On paper, it's quite upright, especially for a hardtail.

Posted by: tashi

I rode a non-BA Rootdown so I'll try to keep my input relevant to this type of hardtail in general.

I ran it with a 110-140mm Revelation and then a 140mm Fox 34.

110 felt pretty stupid, no matter how smooth or steep the climb was. BB just felt like it was tucked down and back of where it should be to pedal well. Felt like I actually climbed slower with the fork lower.

140mm felt good with both forks. Better with the Fox as it's stiffer. I live in Victoria so do most of my riding on the island and the bike did very well here. When I took my road trip through BC some of the extended, rougher downhills had me wanting more travel, but in the form of a full suspension bike, not a longer fork. 140 is already a for amount of travel for a bike with nothing to help out the rear wheel, you're slamming things pretty good at that point, and using a lot of "body suspension" to keep the rear moving along with the front.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new geometry takes longer forks better - the friend I bought the 34 from was moving to a Rootdown BA from a regular one and is a "super fussy bike shop owner gear nerd who shreds" and swapping in a 150mm 36 as he felt it was a better match to the new geo. Still sounds like a lot of travel to me but really, 10mm isn't a big deal sooooo....

Thanks for the thoughts. I saw your Rootdown back a few posts and it looks great.

I rode a friend's non-BA Rootdown with 140 mm Fox 34 back to back with my Kona and I felt like the Rootdown was too tall for my liking. I felt like I was sitting above the bike as opposed to inside it like on my Kona. The BA looks better in this respect, but static BB height is still higher than my current bike by about 15 mm with a 160 mm fork.

I guess it's all about what you're used to.

While the geometry between the Rootdown and the BA is fairly different, I guess another thing to consider is the lower headset cup (EC on the old frame, ZS on the new one). You can run an extra 10 mm of travel or so and get a similar stack height with the ZS.

Interested to hear from Rootdown BA owners.

What do you think is the ideal fork travel for the frame as an all-rounder? And how do you like the steep STA? With a 140 mm fork, is the STA too steep? 160 just seems like too much given my goals for the bike, and I'd be running it in 29er, so dropping the BB a bit is also desireable (my current hardtail has 305 mm BB height and I love it).

I am currently running a Kona Taro (similar geo to Honzo) and contemplating a new frame. I like my 120 mm fork on the hardtail, and I'm just wondering whether running such a long-travel fork makes the bike feel less balanced.

I'm also looking at frames built around 120-140 mm forks, which is more in line with what I currently have (front-runners are NS Eccentric Cromo 29 and Ragley Bigwig). I have a full-suspension AM bike, so I'm looking for my hardtail to be more on the efficient, snappy and responsive side rather than trying to be a plow bike.

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