What? This still reads page 1 for me.
ebikes on the Shore
Posted by: Jonathan
I guess it depends on the type of e-bike system you have and how long you have used it. With a proper torque sensing system, feathering the assistance you get is not a problem so it may be more an issue with the operator than the actual system.
Ya with the only one I’ve tried this was only an issue for the first 30 minutes while I got used to it, after that I was thinking about how to link up all the nasty, sustained, technical climb lines I could use it’s traction and power on.
Posted by: tashi
Posted by: Jonathan
I guess it depends on the type of e-bike system you have and how long you have used it. With a proper torque sensing system, feathering the assistance you get is not a problem so it may be more an issue with the operator than the actual system.
Ya with the only one I’ve tried this was only an issue for the first 30 minutes while I got used to it, after that I was thinking about how to link up all the nasty, sustained, technical climb lines I could use it’s traction and power on.
For someone who's already a pretty good technical climber the ebike can be pretty incredible. But I ask why. There's a new generation of e-trials coming. If you wanted to climb crazy things why not get the right tool for the job with the bonus of being able to really explore? Also the big plus of not being a bit of a nuisance to mountain bikers on climbing trails.
Posted by: craw
For someone who's already a pretty good technical climber the ebike can be pretty incredible. But I ask why. There's a new generation of e-trials coming. If you wanted to climb crazy things why not get the right tool for the job with the bonus of being able to really explore? Also the big plus of not being a bit of a nuisance to mountain bikers on climbing trails.
I think it's psychological and a false belief of people thinking they did it instead of the machine simply because they are required to put in some effort at the pedals. I liken it to the use of PED's in athletics, although not on the same scale.
Posted by: syncro
Posted by: craw
For someone who's already a pretty good technical climber the ebike can be pretty incredible. But I ask why. There's a new generation of e-trials coming. If you wanted to climb crazy things why not get the right tool for the job with the bonus of being able to really explore? Also the big plus of not being a bit of a nuisance to mountain bikers on climbing trails.
I think it's psychological and a false belief of people thinking they did it instead of the machine simply because they are required to put in some effort at the pedals. I liken it to the use of PED's in athletics, although not on the same scale.
100%, I've often drawn parallels between e-mtb and PED's, minus the long term health factors.
Posted by: craw
Posted by: tashi
Posted by: Jonathan
I guess it depends on the type of e-bike system you have and how long you have used it. With a proper torque sensing system, feathering the assistance you get is not a problem so it may be more an issue with the operator than the actual system.
Ya with the only one I’ve tried this was only an issue for the first 30 minutes while I got used to it, after that I was thinking about how to link up all the nasty, sustained, technical climb lines I could use it’s traction and power on.
For someone who's already a pretty good technical climber the ebike can be pretty incredible. But I ask why. There's a new generation of e-trials coming. If you wanted to climb crazy things why not get the right tool for the job with the bonus of being able to really explore? Also the big plus of not being a bit of a nuisance to mountain bikers on climbing trails.
I don’t own or want one but they’re significantly different to trials bikes so I assume if you like mountain bikes you’d choose an e mountain bike over an unavailable e-trials moto.
Re: effort - on mellow climbs the bike is doing all the work and you can get away with not working. On steep and tech climbs you’re pinned, its a lot like motorpacing in that it’s technically easier, but you end up working super hard if you’re doing it right.
Last edited by: tashi on Sept. 1, 2022, 10:46 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Posted by: Sethimus
Posted by: Hepcat
Mostly because can't feather the throttle like you would on a motorcycle, it's an on/off switch through the cranks, which makes traction control difficult. But also because you can't put in a max effort on the cranks as there's a limiter. Your input isn't going straight to the wheel, it's going through a motor which caps input. It's a foreign experience.
I tried a loose section on my son's rental E-mtb that he couldn't clean, I couldn't clean it either and not for lack of trying. When I switched back to my (27.5) mountain bike, I cleaned it on the first try. It wasn't even a difficult section it turned out.
Long non-technical sections like low grade fire roads or paved sections were fantastic on the E-bike, everything trail related wasn't great. That weight is a constant factor too, climbing descending, pushing, it's inescapable.
Massive weight concentrated in one area at the battery is not something we've experienced as mountain bikers. My 45lb freeride bike had the weight distributed evenly and rode well in technical situations, while the E-bike felt like it had a 5kilo lead weight stuck to the frame. Which it did I suppose...
so you base that on a one time try? program your ebike properly first before putting out baseless statements like that…
Like the climb modes? Tried all the modes. 2022 Bosch Performance Line CX 250W motor. I tried that loose section every which way. If it wasn't the torque kicking in and out, then it was the cap on your power input.
It may also be that it's just not a good match for my riding tendencies. I really like to climb in general, and high wattage technical climbs are one of my rare high points skill wise. Having that taken away kinda sucked a hole out of the experience for me. I will say that power boosting uphill over obstacles was a new and not always unpleasant experience, though it did tend to fuck up the trail a bit.
We spent two full days on E-bikes and a few more days with a mix, above description was just a trail section comparison on a day that we had both bikes out on the trail.
My statement is based on my personal experience over a few days riding in the Alps, not sure I can do better than that honestly. Sorry.
Though I wasn't 100% convinced on e-bikes going into this, I was merely curious. You're mileage may vary.
At 5:30 you can see Matt cruise right up the impossible climb on an We Are One Arrival, and smash some logs on E-bikes.
Last edited by: Hepcat on Sept. 1, 2022, 12:50 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
bosch modes can‘t be changed, at least till now, i‘m not familiar with the new smart ones yet. but with others, you can tune them to your liking, i.e. how much torque and how immediately the power is available. the ones from specialized can even be changed on the fly, while riding.
for example, this is the app interface for the shimano ep8:
Last edited by: Sethimus on Sept. 1, 2022, 1:18 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
I changed mine out for a model with zero boost and zero power capping issues, that was also 12 pounds lighter. It was perfect. 😘
I've got some buddies that are riding them, honestly some of they are climbing now when they used to be purely reliant on shuttles. They're even suddenly interested in the climbing trail work I do and willing to stop and help roll a boulder. They're still surrender monkeys using a motor for 300m of climbing and missing half the fun though, but to each their own, delicate dandelions and mountain bikers alike.
People taking class 3 e-bikes Surons and electric motorcycles on the MTB trails however need to be stopped every time, given a long winded talking to, and generally given the gist to fuck off permanently.
Surrender monkeys. Ouch. I love it.
Posted by: Hepcat
People taking class 3 e-bikes Surons and electric motorcycles on the MTB trails however need to be stopped every time, given a long winded talking to, and generally given the gist to fuck off permanently.
I have talked people with motos off the trail in the past, but it was a lot easier when the legal options were bicycles and feet. Trying to parse the legality/morality of riding one type of motorized machine vs. another is not such an easy argument to make if the moto rider in question is rolling along at a pace no faster than a Boomer Scooter/MAMB. Any sort of legal/regulatory enforcement on the trails is pretty sparse so it would come down to people agreeing to not use trails with their motos.
I think you got the wrong impression. Sure you can put it in turbo and blast, but then you get very little battery life. If you want to go on a real ride you need to strategically use your battery life. Also, turbo is way too powerful for any kind of technical climb and will just spin the rear wheel. If you want to make it up technical climbs you need to be able to put power down in a very nuanced way, just like on a regular bike. I remember when people were scornful of suspension, dropper posts, etc. Emtb’s are great for many things, and riders of all kinds can have good or bad etiquette. I try to keep an open mind
Posted by: Sethimus
ghost offering a peek into the future, when most bikes will be sold in both flavors
All ready a thing
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