ebikes on the Shore

Posted by: craw

. I used to like shuttling too, it was a huge part of my riding diet back then but when I do it now I'm really surprised by how much driving is required for multiple passes.

Couldnt agree more. Never been a shuttle fan. A one hour climb takes about 15 to drive. By the time you've driven up then drive up again at the end to retrieve your car and driven back down again, you have spent 45 mins driving. I can spend an extra 15 mins and get an hour of exercise. I'm taking in the scenery, smelling the trees and listening to the sounds.

I have to say the climbs on the shore were historically really shit. Old buck is a shit climb I never really enjoy. Good sir Martin and penny lane have really transformed Seymore for me. One of the most enjoyable climbs I do and so well maintained. Same goes for the climb trail on fromme. But nothing beets the climb trail up maple mountain in Duncan! Or the climbs on kill me thrill me in whistler. World class. Those trails wouldn't be as enjoyable to me without the ups.

I ride a lot in cumberland where they have created the most beginner friendly climb trail and even though I don't really enjoy it due to the monotonous switchbacks and uniform grade and surface, weaker riders love it and it makes riding much more enjoyable for them. They don't enjoy a climb where they are continuously getting off their bike and pushing up rocks and roots. Interestingly, when I ride with eaasybike riders, they can't do technical climbs very well. The motor causes them to loose traction and reduces feel and without a throttle, they can't just spin the back tire luckily. I think steep and flat is good but things that demand a bit of body English and traction control are not made better with a motor it seems. I can also tell you nothing feels better than cleaning the Boulder crux move on a climb on your rigid steel bike while the aesybikers are all pushing 😉

Posted by: RAHrider

Couldnt agree more. Never been a shuttle fan. A one hour climb takes about 15 to drive. By the time you've driven up then drive up again at the end to retrieve your car and driven back down again, you have spent 45 mins driving. I can spend an extra 15 mins and get an hour of exercise. I'm taking in the scenery, smelling the trees and listening to the sounds.

Sacrifice shuttling is the only way.  5 people up in an F-150, 4 people lap, 1 drive back down.  None of this retrieval nonsense.

But I digress.

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: craw

. I used to like shuttling too, it was a huge part of my riding diet back then but when I do it now I'm really surprised by how much driving is required for multiple passes.

Couldnt agree more. Never been a shuttle fan. A one hour climb takes about 15 to drive. By the time you've driven up then drive up again at the end to retrieve your car and driven back down again, you have spent 45 mins driving. I can spend an extra 15 mins and get an hour of exercise. I'm taking in the scenery, smelling the trees and listening to the sounds.

I agree, double vehicle shuttles are often not huge time gains at all, depending on the area you're reaching for. My usual DH-bike day runs a 4-man crew, so we'll do 3 shuttles to the top, and one retrieval for all 3 vehicles. The only time I'd consider a double car shuttle is accessing things like the Cypress top lot, or similar, where climbing is not a realistic endeavor (shuttle still saves a whack of time).

The real takeaway here is that we need more climbing trails to improve linkability. Big Trouble Little Chainring on Bear is my favourite climbing trail around here. The perfect combination of grade with steep challenges but nothing too hard. We could use another climbing route to enable more laps on the lower half of Fromme, and another to get higher on Seymour.

Posted by: RAHrider

Couldnt agree more. Never been a shuttle fan. A one hour climb takes about 15 to drive. By the time you've driven up then drive up again at the end to retrieve your car and driven back down again, you have spent 45 mins driving. I can spend an extra 15 mins and get an hour of exercise. I'm taking in the scenery, smelling the trees and listening to the sounds.

I have to say the climbs on the shore were historically really shit. Old buck is a shit climb I never really enjoy. Good sir Martin and penny lane have really transformed Seymore for me. One of the most enjoyable climbs I do and so well maintained. Same goes for the climb trail on fromme. But nothing beets the climb trail up maple mountain in Duncan! Or the climbs on kill me thrill me in whistler. World class. Those trails wouldn't be as enjoyable to me without the ups.

I ride a lot in cumberland where they have created the most beginner friendly climb trail and even though I don't really enjoy it due to the monotonous switchbacks and uniform grade and surface, weaker riders love it and it makes riding much more enjoyable for them. They don't enjoy a climb where they are continuously getting off their bike and pushing up rocks and roots. Interestingly, when I ride with eaasybike riders, they can't do technical climbs very well. The motor causes them to loose traction and reduces feel and without a throttle, they can't just spin the back tire luckily. I think steep and flat is good but things that demand a bit of body English and traction control are not made better with a motor it seems. I can also tell you nothing feels better than cleaning the Boulder crux move on a climb on your rigid steel bike while the aesybikers are all pushing 😉

That's what first brought me to Vedder, that excellent climbing trail. Still haven't ridden the Squid Line in Sumas, but it's on the list. Maple Mountain climb in Duncan is too now. 😀

Posted by: craw

The real takeaway here is that we need more climbing trails to improve linkability. Big Trouble Little Chainring on Bear is my favourite climbing trail around here. The perfect combination of grade with steep challenges but nothing too hard. We could use another climbing route to enable more laps on the lower half of Fromme, and another to get higher on Seymour.

I view No Quarter as an XC trail that happens to gain a lot of elevation. It would be great if there were a couple more climbs like that on the Shore.

Posted by: PaulB

Posted by: craw

The real takeaway here is that we need more climbing trails to improve linkability. Big Trouble Little Chainring on Bear is my favourite climbing trail around here. The perfect combination of grade with steep challenges but nothing too hard. We could use another climbing route to enable more laps on the lower half of Fromme, and another to get higher on Seymour.

I view No Quarter as an XC trail that happens to gain a lot of elevation. It would be great if there were a couple more climbs like that on the Shore.

If I could get funding I would quit my job(s) and go mad putting in new climbers and linkers. There are plenty of great route options available from Cypress to Burke and beyond. I think what holds it back is either a lack of interest in XC type riding or a perceived lack of interest. The good thing about adding climbers and linkers is distributed parking. That map I put up for Fromme a while back was a good example of that.

Posted by: craw

The real takeaway here is that we need more climbing trails to improve linkability. Big Trouble Little Chainring on Bear is my favourite climbing trail around here. The perfect combination of grade with steep challenges but nothing too hard. We could use another climbing route to enable more laps on the lower half of Fromme, and another to get higher on Seymour.

That is an excellent point. Here in Whistler there have been big improvements in making current climbing trails like the Flank, easier to actually ride up and new trails like Singletrack mind as well.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: PaulB

Posted by: craw

The real takeaway here is that we need more climbing trails to improve linkability. Big Trouble Little Chainring on Bear is my favourite climbing trail around here. The perfect combination of grade with steep challenges but nothing too hard. We could use another climbing route to enable more laps on the lower half of Fromme, and another to get higher on Seymour.

I view No Quarter as an XC trail that happens to gain a lot of elevation. It would be great if there were a couple more climbs like that on the Shore.

If I could get funding I would quit my job(s) and go mad putting in new climbers and linkers. There are plenty of great route options available from Cypress to Burke and beyond. I think what holds it back is either a lack of interest in XC type riding or a perceived lack of interest. The good thing about adding climbers and linkers is distributed parking. That map I put up for Fromme a while back was a good example of that.

Is there really a lack of interest? So few people shuttle now that bike can climb and descend equally well. I guess building climbers is less sexy than exciting descents but they're so good for tying the map together. Anyway, we've derailed this thread enough. 

Back to complaining about easybikes.

Posted by: syncro

If I could get funding I would quit my job(s) and go mad putting in new climbers and linkers. There are plenty of great route options available from Cypress to Burke and beyond. I think what holds it back is either a lack of interest in XC type riding or a perceived lack of interest. The good thing about adding climbers and linkers is distributed parking. That map I put up for Fromme a while back was a good example of that.

Hallelujah. Good Sir Martin stamped and repeated

A bunch of big interconnected XC loops sound like perfect e-bike terrain.  ;)

Steep loose single track climbs like Good Sir Martin are shit on an E-bike. "Walk mode" on.

Non-technical or paved loops are ideal E-bike terrain, like the commute to the office and back.

E-Gravel®?

serious question, why are climbs like those shit on an ebike?  

and no thanks to e-gravel.  gravel bikes are retro fantastic mountain bikes for those of us that want long chill loops.

Mostly because can't feather the throttle like you would on a motorcycle, it's an on/off switch through the cranks, which makes traction control difficult. But also because you can't put in a max effort on the cranks as there's a limiter. Your input isn't going straight to the wheel, it's going through a motor which caps input. It's a foreign experience.

I tried a loose section on my son's rental E-mtb that he couldn't clean, I couldn't clean it either and not for lack of trying. When I switched back to my (27.5) mountain bike, I cleaned it on the first try. It wasn't even a difficult section it turned out.

Long non-technical sections like low grade fire roads or paved sections were fantastic on the E-bike, everything trail related wasn't great. That weight is a constant factor too, climbing descending, pushing, it's inescapable.

Massive weight concentrated in one area at the battery is not something we've experienced as mountain bikers. My 45lb freeride bike had the weight distributed evenly and rode well in technical situations, while the E-bike felt like it had a 5kilo lead weight stuck to the frame. Which it did I suppose...