ebikes on the Shore

In terms of passing on climbs, if someone is chugging along I'll wait for a good/appropriate spot to pass just so I don't feck up somebody else's groove. 

Ahh who am I kidding, they don't call me elbows for nothing. 

Really though, it's about respect for the guy in front of you. I don't care who you are or what you're riding, don't put someone else out. The only exception I'd make is if I can see someone struggling and there is an obviously harder section a little ahead where it's pretty clear they're not going to clean it and I feel pretty confident that I have my mojo going enough that I will clean it. In that case I'd call rider up before I pass. I think the key thing is leaving enough of a gap till you decide  to pass so that you can assess what's going on and figure out if you'll be able to make the pass or just settle in a few (3-4) bike lengths behind the rider in front of you and maybe take just a little bit longer on the current section until there's a good opportunity to pass. The advantage to leaving some space is that if they do inadvertently mess up you've got some time to correct your line and they have a bit of time to get out of the way as you (hopefully) make a clean pass.

Posted by: JBV

is this topic flogged to death in here somewhere already? i had the pleasure of riding Seymour on long weekend Monday. very busy! awesome technical trails so impressed.

are there rules surrounding ebikes on the fair shore? i don't have any real opinions about them either way, save for this one: if you are on technical climbing single track and a guy on an ebike is behind you, it is very disconcerting! you can hear the motor and sense the surges as he gets too close. i figure you either ask a big line of 6 guys in front to all stop and step aside (yeah right) or hang fairly far back to mitigate the douche factor.

as an aside, even faster climbers should just get over it and ask to pass or call out, rider up on your left. seems a handful of young bucks think they are going to slink past a whole train of riders (awkwardly) without a word. more douche factor at work and no ebikes involved.

Ride Fromme or Cypress. Crowds were minimal on the long weekend. Seymour does get a bit crowded on GSM.

Tried a "Pandelec" MTB the other day on the street to see for myself what the deal is. Had it in boost mode, and after riding it up and down the road all I can say is... nice motorbike. The thing hauled ass barely pedaling. This is going to be a problem on the climbing trails, now I really can't stand them. I thought they were pedal assist, what a load of shit, full electric motorbike. Although great for commuting.

Posted by: Brocklanders

Tried a "Pandelec" MTB the other day on the street to see for myself what the deal is. Had it in boost mode, and after riding it up and down the road all I can say is... nice motorbike. The thing hauled ass barely pedaling. This is going to be a problem on the climbing trails, now I really can't stand them. I thought they were pedal assist, what a load of shit, full electric motorbike. Although great for commuting.

what make/model bike did you try?

If you can ride it without pedaling it is by definition not a pedelec.

I saw three bike path ebikes heading up BLT a couple weekends ago as I headed into 5th. They passed me as I went in, went up the trail and then turned around and also came into 5th.

A German family of three visiting from Munich and wearing Lycra and bike path helmets. Their online research revealed that 5th was the “nicest” trail to ride and that it might have some technical sections but nothing bad. I tried to warn them but it appeared that I offended them in the process!

I decided just to head down and I wished them well. I hope all ended well!

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Brocklanders

Tried a "Pandelec" MTB the other day on the street to see for myself what the deal is. Had it in boost mode, and after riding it up and down the road all I can say is... nice motorbike. The thing hauled ass barely pedaling. This is going to be a problem on the climbing trails, now I really can't stand them. I thought they were pedal assist, what a load of shit, full electric motorbike. Although great for commuting.

what make/model bike did you try?

The divinci one.

http://www.devinci.com/bikes/bike_1036_scategory_243

I barely spun the pedals, the thing jumped out of its skin. This whole pedal assist thing is such a load of crap. It's like just spin your legs a little, the motor will do the rest of the work. Prob 99% of the work at 30km per hr.

Shocking really, I wanted to be open minded about them but forget it. They are electric dirt bikes.

I'm sure no one would use that boost mode on a climb.... yeah right.

I suck at pedalling and have only a low power output on my drivetrain, but I don't think I would still want one the these type bikes (http://www.devinci.com/bikes/bike_1036_scategory_243).

But mostly for the weight.  I would have to believe they are 10-15lbs heavier than a comparible mtn bike?  Pushing around a 45lb ish bike, even with the "pedal assist" doesn't thrill me.    

Now make it really e-motor bike, that will last with real power for 3-4 hrs and somewhat closer to a real dirt bike and still keep the weight really light, that I would like to try.

Gotten into dirt biking lately and still having problems with the thought of 250lbs of bike crashing down on me when I endo.

A couple of weekends back, we were climbing NQ on an enjoyable cool morning. Just after the start of the executioner switchbacks, a rider started climbing up behind our group, bluetooth speaker spitting out Puff Daddy tunes. Seemed grumpy when we didnt move over for him (not that there is a really good place to pass on those switchbacks either). To be fair, not sure if I would have been able to hear 'rider up' or 'on your left' overtop of the music even if he had said it. I dont get people who feel the need to share their music on a biking/hiking trail. This is what headphones are for.

Bluetooth speakers in the outdoors are one of my biggest "grumpy old guy" peeves.

I've come across a few ebikes (didn't notice what kind) on Bridle Path on Seymour, and on the really rooty/rocky sections it seemed that the riders were having trouble with the extra weight. Maybe they were going too slow for the assist to kick in. One guy ended up pushing through the rough bit.

Posted by: rideitall

But mostly for the weight.  I would have to believe they are 10-15lbs heavier than a comparible mtn bike?  Pushing around a 45lb ish bike, even with the "pedal assist" doesn't thrill me.

Those Kranked kits add a bunch of crap to a standard bike down at the BB.  Then the rider has to carry the battery in a special backpack with a joy plug connection. 

Too bad the KTM e-dirtbikes are using a 67˚ HTA of the Freeride instead of the 63˚ HTA that the SX and Enduro bikes use. :( 

Posted by: shoreboy

A couple of weekends back, we were climbing NQ on an enjoyable cool morning. Just after the start of the executioner switchbacks, a rider started climbing up behind our group, bluetooth speaker spitting out Puff Daddy tunes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3rg9NhU5To

Posted by: shoreboy

A couple of weekends back, we were climbing NQ on an enjoyable cool morning. Just after the start of the executioner switchbacks, a rider started climbing up behind our group, bluetooth speaker spitting out Puff Daddy tunes. Seemed grumpy when we didnt move over for him (not that there is a really good place to pass on those switchbacks either). To be fair, not sure if I would have been able to hear 'rider up' or 'on your left' overtop of the music even if he had said it. I dont get people who feel the need to share their music on a biking/hiking trail. This is what headphones are for.

I hate that also. One of the reasons I go into the forest to bike is to get away from all the noise. Put some headphones in man & spare us listening to your bad music.

Posted by: Brocklanders

I barely spun the pedals, the thing jumped out of its skin. This whole pedal assist thing is such a load of crap. It's like just spin your legs a little, the motor will do the rest of the work. Prob 99% of the work at 30km per hr.

Shocking really, I wanted to be open minded about them but forget it. They are electric dirt bikes.

I'm sure no one would use that boost mode on a climb.... yeah right.

I gotta admit that's a bit disappointing to hear. To try and remain objective tho I can see the boost mode being great for long service/fire road types of climbs. in terms of climbing trails that are technical and/or single track, I wonder if the boost mode is actually practical? I'm guessing from your description that the bikes computer is designed to just take it straight to top speed no matter how much pedaling effort the user puts in. In this case I don't think the boost mode would work as it would be too fast for the trail. Either way, I feel same rules I stated above apply. IF riders are following/using that protocol, I don't see any reason for conflict on the trails. I agree though that it does create a situation that is more prone to abuse.

Some them you can adjust the level of boost. It turns out there are plenty of reasons to not have it on full - imagine technical terrain when a burst of juice might throw you into a tree or off a cliff. So far I only see these things being good for commuting.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Brocklanders

I'm guessing from your description that the bikes computer is designed to just take it straight to top speed no matter how much pedaling effort the user puts in.

That's not how they work. They're designed to give proportional boost so you can control speed by how hard you pedal. Good systems make you feel like you've got the legs of pro rider!

At least that's the goal. How well they operate varies widely. Some torque sensors are better than others, plus lag can be an issue. Lag at the start isn't too bad, but lag after you stop pedalling is disconcerting to say the least!