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Translink & 0.5% vote (merged)

March 12, 2015, 6:27 p.m.
Posts: 3171
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

The yes campaign is really ramping up the spending.

this is not something i necessarily agree with, but considering the importance of the issue and the apparent lack of knowledge on the topic by many people it's unfortunately necessary.

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

March 12, 2015, 6:54 p.m.
Posts: 10010
Joined: March 11, 2003

http://movingforward.discoursemedia.org/

Data

Is there a Vancouver in Taiwan?! I had no idea!!

Nothing sums up my life's achievements like my stuffed corpse, suplexing a cougar.

March 12, 2015, 7:07 p.m.
Posts: 3171
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

http://movingforward.discoursemedia.org/

Data

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

March 13, 2015, 9:25 a.m.
Posts: 7657
Joined: Feb. 15, 2005

Just going to leave this right here…


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQfC6mKTErg

I have 21,474,850 rep points...

My blog - read it!

http://www.citizenclass.ca

March 13, 2015, 11:58 p.m.
Posts: 3171
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

there is a great doc on netflix right now that some of you may find interesting called the human scale. it looks at the design of modern cities and how it affects human nature/culture. part of this story revolves around building cities to serve the needs of cars and what happens when cars are removed from cities.

disclaimer: from what i can tells the Yes side in the Vancouver Transit Plebiscite had no imput on the making of this documentary unless they happen to have a time machine and went back to 2012 to influence the production of this piece. as such, the doc should not be treated as yes side propoganda, but simply as info about an alternate approach to transportation and city planning.

the idea is let's change the way we plan and think of cities, instead of city planning for cars let's consider city planning for people.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lid9ELzzT8Y

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

March 14, 2015, 9:26 a.m.
Posts: 809
Joined: Dec. 22, 2002

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/13/the-psychology-of-no-vancouver-residents-poised-to-make-a-decision-that-will-corrode-their-happiness

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NSMBA member.

March 16, 2015, 12:54 p.m.
Posts: 4297
Joined: June 1, 2009

Stupid Vancouver-ites.
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/03/latest-transit-referendum-poll-shows-no-campaign-way-ahead/

March 16, 2015, 12:58 p.m.
Posts: 14926
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Stupid Vancouver-ites.
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/03/latest-transit-referendum-poll-shows-no-campaign-way-ahead/

March 16, 2015, 1:09 p.m.
Posts: 8256
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

how did the mayors not see this reaction coming?

WTB Frequency i23 rim, 650b NEW - $40

March 16, 2015, 4:24 p.m.
Posts: 4297
Joined: June 1, 2009

how did the mayors not see this reaction coming?

I would imagine it was discussed.

Maybe the Mayors thought that Vancouver-ites would actually do some homework and not behave like a pissed off 5 year old.

March 16, 2015, 4:47 p.m.
Posts: 34075
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

how did the mayors not see this reaction coming?

They did. It's called "hot potato".

Expect an even bigger media blitz by the yes campaign.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

March 16, 2015, 5:26 p.m.
Posts: 14926
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Seems like the counter argument in this thread to the number 1 obstacle NO voters have to this new tax (namely: Translink can't be trusted with additional funds) is "you guys are stupid".

LOL - excellent salesmanship guys.

March 16, 2015, 5:30 p.m.
Posts: 160
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

pretty clear from my lofty perch afar, that you can't use logic and facts to make a well reasoned case….needs more hyperbole and rhetoric

March 16, 2015, 5:45 p.m.
Posts: 14926
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

pretty clear from my lofty perch afar, that you can't use logic and facts to make a well reasoned case….needs more hyperbole and rhetoric

I lean towards the Yes side of the vote. But the criticism of Translink is valid in my opinion, and the No side is levering on that issue. So for Yes side proponents to not tackle it head on is a mistake.

March 16, 2015, 6:19 p.m.
Posts: 3171
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Seems like the counter argument in this thread to the number 1 obstacle NO voters have to this new tax (namely: Translink can't be trusted with additional funds) is "you guys are stupid".

LOL - excellent salesmanship guys.

while it may not be the right argument from a sales point, from a reality perspective it's not that far off. i do agree thought that changing the management of translink should be a key component of that and for that we should be looking at the liberals. now besides the chant of translink can't be trusted, the other major theme the no side is running is that we have a bad transit system. when the no side gets challenged on these things, a few select arguments come up. the easiest one to deal with is the "poor service" argument as the no side can not offer any reasonable evidence that the system does is as bad as they believe it to be. as for the bad management part there are some valid arguments to that, but some of them are also minor irritants in the grand scheme of things. the vote needs to be considered in a logical process.

firstly, does metro need improvements to it's transit system to meet current as well as future needs? (i can't find anyone to reasonably argue against this.) at this point it should be a yes.

but if you're sitting no then you have to ask yourself why. if the answer is translink management then you have to ask how does that get changed? the answer is via municipal or provincial elections.

if you're sitting no because of the extra tax then you need to consider how else will it be paid for? is it reasonable to expect translink to find enough efficiencies in the system as it sits now to come up with $250 million per year - which represents close to 20% of translink's budget. if not, how are we going to pay for these things and what's the fairest way to go about it? is there a better method than the 0.5% tax increase being proposed? it's important to realize that the money for these project will be found somehow and we are the ones who will be paying for it. if the projects don't go ahead, then we are the ones who will be paying for it.

if you're still leaning no then you have to ask yourself if this is an emotional issue and you have a hate on for translink. if the answer is yes then what do you plan to do about it besides saying no in this plebiscite because the issue of transit funding doesn't die with a no vote. in which case you're back to voting at provincial and municipal elections.

now consider that eventually some or all of these transit improvements are going to get done eventually. does it make more sense to do them now when costs are lower, because construction costs are inevitably are going to go up, and we can reap the benefits in the near future or should we vote no and put things off so that we will not only have to wait longer for improvements but have to pay more for them as well.

it would appear that the smart move is to vote yes and get this thing done now and over the course of the next 2-4 year make sure your voice is heard at the ballot box and elect people that are going to make changes to the things are currently run.

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

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