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Translink & 0.5% vote (merged)

March 17, 2015, 1:05 p.m.
Posts: 809
Joined: Dec. 22, 2002

Seems like the counter argument in this thread to the number 1 obstacle NO voters have to this new tax (namely: Translink can't be trusted with additional funds) is "you guys are stupid".

LOL - excellent salesmanship guys.

The polls show the voters south of the Fraser are much more likely to vote "No". So I ask you this: is Translink any more trustworthy to voters North of the Fraser, or is there something more to the thinking of the No voters? Perhaps we can caste aside the red herring that is Compass etc. and call BS on the No for being anything but selfish. They're thinking of their pocketbook, not pricing in congestion cause it doesn't come on their bank statement and can't see further than that despite the numerous studies that say how this will affect us all.

NSMBA member.

March 17, 2015, 1:09 p.m.
Posts: 16697
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

mergers usually come with cutting duplicate staff.

That doesn't automatically mean it's a good idea. Classic Friedmanite economics has been proven wrong time and time again, yet it still forms economic policy.

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.

When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

March 17, 2015, 2:12 p.m.
Posts: 9747
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

The polls show the voters south of the Fraser are much more likely to vote "No". So I ask you this: is Translink any more trustworthy to voters North of the Fraser, or is there something more to the thinking of the No voters? Perhaps we can caste aside the red herring that is Compass etc. and call BS on the No for being anything but selfish. They're thinking of their pocketbook, not pricing in congestion cause it doesn't come on their bank statement and can't see further than that despite the numerous studies that say how this will affect us all.

if your paying 1500 a year in new tolls and a big chuck of gas tax in the past year you might be inclined to feel your pretty under-served for what your already dishing out compared to other lower mainland areas because transit south of the fraser is pretty shitty for what you already pay IMO.

im voting yes fyi but I see why people think it sucks

March 17, 2015, 4:22 p.m.
Posts: 354
Joined: June 11, 2013

And the Translink plan just went from $7.5 billion to $7.7 billion.

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2015/03/16/mayors-transit-plan-to-cost-200-million-more

You can pretty much guarantee that it will be well in excess of $7.7 billion.

March 17, 2015, 5:31 p.m.
Posts: 14415
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

And the Translink plan just went from $7.5 billion to $7.7 billion.

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2015/03/16/mayors-transit-plan-to-cost-200-million-more

You can pretty much guarantee that it will be well in excess of $7.7 billion.

That's just going to be fuel on the fire.

March 17, 2015, 6:13 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: June 13, 2004

if your paying 1500 a year in new tolls and a big chuck of gas tax in the past year you might be inclined to feel your pretty under-served for what your already dishing out compared to other lower mainland areas because transit south of the fraser is pretty shitty for what you already pay IMO.

im voting yes fyi but I see why people think it sucks

2nd that. If they made it 0.7% or 1% and got rid of the port man and golden ears bridge toll everyone south of fraser would vote yes.

that is the most reatrded thing ever even a retarded would say thats retarded

March 17, 2015, 6:17 p.m.
Posts: 33676
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

One right winged conservative slays all the mayors and various business/union entities. And the yes side wonders why they are behind.

And now the robocalls are annoying the heck out of people.

It's hard to trust those who can't deliver a simple message. If you can't sell your idea, it may be the seller, it may be the buyer, and it just may be the idea.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

March 17, 2015, 8:39 p.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: Aug. 12, 2006

Port Mann isn't really a P3 project. Instead it is run by a provincial crown corporation so in essence it is a self funded p3 project. The Golden ears bridge however, is another story. That is a P3 project and because the toll revenue is not meeting expectations, the province meaning Translink gets to cover the difference between the projected and actual revenue.

I don't live in the Metro Vancouver area, however the evil hand of Metro Vancouver is moving further east and it will be only a matter of time before our municipality will be forced to join in.

March 17, 2015, 9:14 p.m.
Posts: 9
Joined: Aug. 20, 2010

That's just going to be fuel on the fire.

The cost estimates are estimates. Nobody knows what the actual cost will be in the end especially when projecting a 15 year program. This is a reality of the universe and has nothing to do with TransLink. It is silly to obsess about a 200m shift in such a big program, so early out.

March 17, 2015, 9:18 p.m.
Posts: 9
Joined: Aug. 20, 2010

Port Mann isn't really a P3 project. Instead it is run by a provincial crown corporation so in essence it is a self funded p3 project. The Golden ears bridge however, is another story. That is a P3 project and because the toll revenue is not meeting expectations, the province meaning Translink gets to cover the difference between the projected and actual revenue.

I don't live in the Metro Vancouver area, however the evil hand of Metro Vancouver is moving further east and it will be only a matter of time before our municipality will be forced to join in.

Both projects are publically owned and any shortfall in toll revenue can only be covered by the public - the Province directly (port mann) or via TransLink (golden ears).

March 17, 2015, 9:26 p.m.
Posts: 3483
Joined: Nov. 27, 2002

Mayor Development Backhander is really ramping up the fear. I keep hearing him say how this is a unique opportunity, a once in a lifetime chance to improve the transit system in Vancouver.

Give it a rest. Has Rennie said no more yearly blowjobs for Vision Condo if the Yes side doesn't win?

"I do like how you generally bring an open-minded and positive vibe to the threads you participate in"

- Morgman

March 18, 2015, 12:35 a.m.
Posts: 33676
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

The cost estimates are estimates. Nobody knows what the actual cost will be in the end especially when projecting a 15 year program. This is a reality of the universe and has nothing to do with TransLink. It is silly to obsess about a 200m shift in such a big program, so early out.

Perhaps. But it's easy to read into this that the proposed budget cost was purposely made low so that the amount required by taxpayers would be more palatable. Once it begins, there will the ever increasing costs that will be blamed on various factors, and to cover the costs there will additional taxes levied.

Either the request for a specific amount of additional capital for Translink is done because there is a proposed plan that has been well thought out in terms of implementation and cost, or it hasn't. Does the proposed cost include some padding or buffer, and what's included in that. What are the milestones? What are the internal and external unknowns? What are the contingency plans for cost overruns? What is the critical path for the project?

In other words, if the Broadway subway is projected to cost $1.2 billion, and it costs $1.8 billion, will another project that costs $500 million be dropped or will the extra $500 million be raised by additional taxes or fair increases?

This is what worries people, especially since there are only token overlords such as the Mayors or Pattison. There is no accountability.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

March 18, 2015, 7:18 a.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

you can blame the province for the lack of accountability from translink, you the citizens are the ones who elected the mayors, and only a few months ago at that, so hanging them out to dry at this point seems a bit rich.

March 18, 2015, 8:50 a.m.
Posts: 354
Joined: June 11, 2013

Port Mann isn't really a P3 project. Instead it is run by a provincial crown corporation so in essence it is a self funded p3 project.

My bad, you're quite right. It was intended to be a P3 but changed to a D/B when the proponent could not arrange appropriate financing.

March 18, 2015, 9:23 a.m.
Posts: 227
Joined: Aug. 4, 2009

was never a big fan of Gordo, but at least he got shit done. First Christy's hst referrendum and now this plebosite, what a joke. You call this leadership.Just another step backwards.

This. Christy Clark is not a very good leader. The leader gets voted in to do whats best but any actual difficult decision she makes she puts it back on us and overall the general population is not very good with difficult decisions. Too many short term issues that we put greater importance than long term ones, part of the reason forecasting and planning for the future is difficult for most.

Overall Translink really isn't that bad in terms of efficiency but they have had some major screw ups and debacles that get major coverage and they've been ripped pretty hard (some of it justly). If Translink ran smoothly 99% of the time then have one minor problem then they would still be considered incompetent.

The whole plan for tomorrow is difficult in the sense that we are effectively being asked to pay for future citizens benefit. I am still in favour of the increased tax but I see the dilemma here.

One difficulty here in Vancouver is that it is an expensive city to live in. The cost of living is very high, comparable to SF and NY, even though our provincial income taxes are one of the lowest in Canada. The problem is that NY and SF both have major industries that generate revenue and the overall city benefits. Whats Vancouver's great income generator? Junior mining? lol. We don't really have a tech industry, we don't have oil, we don't have finance. We are the junior team for people in these industries and when they get the call up they leave for NY or Toronto, or silicon valley. Most people, particularly the ones on this board, are willing to sacrifice a higher wage elsewhere and endure increased expenses to live in this area. I know I do because I really enjoy mountain biking any day I want.

I have no sympathy for those complaining about having long commutes and already paying taxes on fuel. I feel the tax is justified because the cost should reduce consumption which benefits everyone with cleaner air and reducing other harmful impacts. Also, you have just as much right to live closer to work as anyone else. I choose to pay more for rent/property and have a minimal commute than to buy a bigger piece of land south of the Fraser but then spend more time commuting and paying for gas. As far as the toll bridge, don't worry, all new things will be tolled eventually, just like SF and I would not be surprised when pay per distance driving becomes a reality (and we will wish we could take public transit then).

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