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squatting

June 22, 2015, 5:11 p.m.
Posts: 1432
Joined: May 23, 2006

It requires a ton of effort to bulk up. .

What? I'm getting bigger on only 6-8 sets per body part once a week.

“.....with a malevolent fascist swine atop its titular apex, the pitiful wounded beast of a rotten, spiritually dead American Superpower is careening towards epic barbarism while pushing the species dangerously to the tipping points of extinction.”

June 22, 2015, 5:38 p.m.
Posts: 11003
Joined: June 4, 2008

What? I'm getting bigger on only 6-8 sets per body part once a week.

Come on man, too easy.

June 22, 2015, 6:13 p.m.
Posts: 1432
Joined: May 23, 2006

What? I'm getting bigger on only 6-8 sets per body part once a week.

That's wrong, more like 4-6, eh?

“.....with a malevolent fascist swine atop its titular apex, the pitiful wounded beast of a rotten, spiritually dead American Superpower is careening towards epic barbarism while pushing the species dangerously to the tipping points of extinction.”

June 22, 2015, 7:18 p.m.
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sept. 5, 2012

i do goblet squats with a kettle bell and do a kettlebell deadlifts as well , one legged squats as well . both movements i go as full range as i can , with reps up to 30 depending on the rest of my workout . i also follow James Wilson and he is always sharing bike specific workouts . made some really decent gains using some of his movements .

#northsidetrailbuilders

June 22, 2015, 9:13 p.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug. 20, 2010

a disciple of rippetoe i see. he has a lot of great knowledge but not all of it is geared to sport athletes, it's geared to strength athletes and primarily power lifters. not everything he says is gospel for everybody who squats.

Probably some truth there. I do recommend his book anyway, it is highly readable and certainly a good place to start. I have found some of his cues stick in my mind well. Vancouver public library has it if you don't want to buy it. I borrowed it, then bought it. He also has a video with tedious repetitious lifting instruction - but it's pretty helpful.

This is coming from a novice who has found his stuff useful to supplement some personal training.

June 22, 2015, 9:37 p.m.
Posts: 1114
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Probably some truth there. I do recommend his book anyway, it is highly readable and certainly a good place to start. I have found some of his cues stick in my mind well. Vancouver public library has it if you don't want to buy it. I borrowed it, then bought it. He also has a video with tedious repetitious lifting instruction - but it's pretty helpful.

This is coming from a novice who has found his stuff useful to supplement some personal training.

oh me too and I also think the book is good. i like a lot of what he has to say - probably because it confirms a lot of the stuff i've taught for a long time. it's just there are things i disagree with that appear to come across as absolutes in some of his writings. ultimately, there is no one best way to do things but there is a good way to do things for a specific person and their situation.

if anything more knowledge is good as it can challenge what you believe in and prompt you to reassess your own beliefs. sometimes people only believe in certain training methodologies only because they have not been exposed to circumstances outside of their sphere of experience or knowledge. this is one of the reasons i am very thankful for having worked in public recreation; i have been exposed to many different training variables that a lot of other haven't had to consider and have been forced to adapt my training philosophies to work in some unusual circumstances.

context is everything

June 23, 2015, 7:31 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 6, 2005

Anyone incorporate dumbbell split squats into their squat routine? I find that one can make you suffer in a special way.

June 23, 2015, 7:50 a.m.
Posts: 12684
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

I occasionally do them when training for martial arts specifically, but not regularly.
I have fairly long and lanky legs and find that as soon as I prop up my rear foot, it gets odd. I do them with both feet on the ground, but not as regularly as I should.

And my inner meniscus is still not fully ok, so I'd rather not do them.

But these can build some serious strength and mobility under load. I think its similar to the advantages of one arm overhead presses, but I could be seriously wrong.

"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer

June 23, 2015, 11:56 a.m.
Posts: 2061
Joined: Aug. 20, 2003

a disciple of rippetoe i see. he has a lot of great knowledge but not all of it is geared to sport athletes, it's geared to strength athletes and primarily power lifters. not everything he says is gospel for everybody who squats.

the problem with diagnosing these things over the web is lack of info as to the lifter's goals and lack of visual as to what the lifter is actually doing. there is simply no replacement for correcting someone's squat while the coach/trainer is watching them.

as for the effectiveness of squatting on a rocker board it has it's place; particularly when it comes to using the deep muscles of the hip to remain stable under load while performing a relatively complex movement such as the squat.

Yes, while Rippetoe is a strength specialist (hence the name of the book containing "strength"). I disagree that it is not geared to other non pure strength athletes and sports. Improving strength is positively correlated with an improvement across all physical pursuits, so certainly is more broadly applicable to pretty much any human. There is no instance that I can think where an increase in strength (even if nominal) will not improve performance or quality of life.

It's not about being a Rippetoe disciple, its simply that there is a general void of excellent material by which people can self-teach themselves technique and generate an effective program. Wendler's 5-3-1 and much of what comes out of Westside are practically incomprehensible and not intended for anyone just getting started. My recommendation has nothing to do with my thinking that there is 'one-way', this is just the most readable, understandable and actionable resource available.

And I'll humbly disagree that the rocker board provides any additional benefit to the hips (barring any unusual injury) then simply getting stronger will have. I disagree for the same reason that I don't do any situps. What stress would a situp provide to someone that can 2x BW DL and squat 100+ of their BW? What deep muscles of the hips are not getting their share of the work when I squat 250# and all the balance and full range of motion required to do so? How is squatting my body weight on a wobble board providing any more beneficial stimulus that is not already surpassed by simply getting stronger under the bar? None. Zero. Zip. If I get my squat up to 300#'s the wobble board is not going to be a big deal. I'll never squat 300#'s on a wobble board.

Goin' Down?

June 23, 2015, 2:01 p.m.
Posts: 1487
Joined: July 11, 2014

Rip's book is good for explaining the systematic benefits of the core lifts and why you should squat to slightly below parallel, and really drives home why you need you work on your ass/hamstrings (by squatting and deadlifting) if you sit at a desk all day. Stuff that is important for bike riding.

That said his method of teaching the back squat can lead people to poor form and back issues (especially those with weak backs) because it can result in bent over good morning squats. For my body type (short legs, long torso), an upright olympic weightlifting style squat works best. I use deadlifts/snatch grip deadlifts to work on back strength and use squats for leg strength.

And yeah, Bulgarian split squats are awesome. I think single leg work is awesome for mountain bikers because the vast majority ride with the same foot forward all the time, which could lead to imbalances. Single leg deadlifts (with a KB, DB or barbell) are also awesomely awful.

Also 100% agree rocker boards/unstable surfaces are not useful for strength training, I would leave those for injury rehab purposes only. Much more value in lifting heavy.

June 23, 2015, 6:21 p.m.
Posts: 1114
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Yes, while Rippetoe is a strength specialist (hence the name of the book containing "strength"). I disagree that it is not geared to other non pure strength athletes and sports. Improving strength is positively correlated with an improvement across all physical pursuits, so certainly is more broadly applicable to pretty much any human. There is no instance that I can think where an increase in strength (even if nominal) will not improve performance or quality of life.

It's not about being a Rippetoe disciple, its simply that there is a general void of excellent material by which people can self-teach themselves technique and generate an effective program. Wendler's 5-3-1 and much of what comes out of Westside are practically incomprehensible and not intended for anyone just getting started. My recommendation has nothing to do with my thinking that there is 'one-way', this is just the most readable, understandable and actionable resource available.

And I'll humbly disagree that the rocker board provides any additional benefit to the hips (barring any unusual injury) then simply getting stronger will have. I disagree for the same reason that I don't do any situps. What stress would a situp provide to someone that can 2x BW DL and squat 100+ of their BW? What deep muscles of the hips are not getting their share of the work when I squat 250# and all the balance and full range of motion required to do so? How is squatting my body weight on a wobble board providing any more beneficial stimulus that is not already surpassed by simply getting stronger under the bar? None. Zero. Zip. If I get my squat up to 300#'s the wobble board is not going to be a big deal. I'll never squat 300#'s on a wobble board.

yeah, i should have been more clear that I wasn't necessarily talking about the book but some of his other articles. i'm also not saying that the book isn't valuable or doesn't have cross-over benefit, but disagreeing with the pursuit of strength over all other factors. for most athletes that is not the way to train. besides starting strength, there is also the bill starr book and the even the bigger, faster, stronger book while geared to high school athletes is also a great resource for people just starting out.

the rocker board provides the benefit of having to work against an unstable surface thereby requiring a higher level of balance and stabilization than squatting on a flat, stable floor. the rocker board will force you to correct for instabilities that one may not even realize exist when only squatting on a stable surface. from an athletics point of view this is critical as most sports are not played in a controlled and perfectly stable environment.

for your situp example, while i do not promote situps for other reasons it is still a highly functional and necessary movement. so yes, squats and deadlifts provide crossover benefit for the core musculature, they do not replicate the movement of a situp.

squatting on rocker board will challenge your proprioreceptors more than squatting on the floor and that will yield benefit in terms of hip and trunk stability which will translate to improved athletic performance. rocker squats will also benefit your regular squat via the same improved stabilization. i haven't done them for a while as i've been doing other things, but i noticed an improvement on my regular squat when i was supplementing with rocker squats at load.

as for which muscles are getting more benefit - all of them. they are all having to work together to create the balance and stability required to do the squat. in theory, if you have excellent balance and muscular control you should be able to do a squat as smoothly on a rocker board as you can on the floor. if you can't then your musculature is not as mechanically efficient as it could be. i've experienced the difference it makes. before i started using it i had better than average balance doing a squat on the rocker board because of my squat strength, but after adding it in the rocker squats not only became better but so did the regular squats. i also assume you mean rocker board in the last sentence and not wobble board. however if you do mean wobble board then yes, it is going to be a big deal. using the wobble or rocker boards are learned skills that can't be mastered via the squat although they will be easeir to do than someone who does not squat at all.

i'm not trying to advocate only training on the rocker board, but it is a tool that has it's place and will add to your regular squat.

context is everything

June 23, 2015, 6:23 p.m.
Posts: 1114
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Also 100% agree rocker boards/unstable surfaces are not useful for strength training, I would leave those for injury rehab purposes only. Much more value in lifting heavy.

as stated to pch, they are useful. while i agree that there may be more value in heavy lifting, that value depends entirely on the individuals goals and needs. but try squating 300 on rocker board and tell me it doesn't provide any value.

context is everything

June 23, 2015, 6:32 p.m.
Posts: 11003
Joined: June 4, 2008

i'm not going trying to advocate only training on the rocker board, but it is a tool that has it's place and will add to your regular squat.

But not if you're training for a heavy squat, right?

Can rocker boards support 650+ pounds of weight?

June 23, 2015, 7:17 p.m.
Posts: 1114
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

But not if you're training for a heavy squat, right?

Can rocker boards support 650+ pounds of weight?

i'm not saying to use a rocker squat in place of a heavy squat but as a supplemental exercise that could be trained with some decent weight. for example, depending on how on'es training program is set up you could do rocker squats on your light day or as a secondary exeericse on your heavy leg day after your squats have already been done. as for load limits i wouldn't sugget using 650+ pounds on most of the boards out there but i'm sure you could build one that could handle that kind of load.

context is everything

June 24, 2015, 1:11 p.m.
Posts: 5635
Joined: Oct. 28, 2008

Please stop squatting on my property or I will have to call the authorities.

Wrong. Always.

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