Skid Lid on Air Supply

When people say there are mandatory stunts… You can walk them just fine.

The Shore kicks my ass. Each and every time. I don't bitch at the NSMBA for making the trails way too hard for me, this is mountain biking. Fuck, if you want someone to hold your hand and not get your panties dirty, you can always take up knitting.

Practice makes perfect. I kept riding, got injured, healed up, went riding again, got stoked and had fun. That's what it is all about. My first ride here was on CBC to Neds. My legs looked like they had been chewed by a bear, they still do but that's another story. What did I do? I plastered my face with a grin and came back with the determination to make CBC my bitch. I ended up as her rock bitch but that's ok, she gives me pleasure. Yes the Shore still is intimidating for me. I am still a 'Shore beginner'.

I don't sympasize with you when you say there are no easy trails on the Shore. SFU is a 25-35 min. skytrain ride away. There are TONS of options out there. Why do you have to stick to those North Shore mountains? Please, no BS about it being close to you, I live nowhere near the Shore and yet I can still get out there to enjoy it. I can also get to SFU to get back to my roots and the basics.

[/rant]

And to the guy who ended himself on Air Supply, get better soon and we'll see you on the trails mate!

:nerd:

Im not afraid to walk around anything

This has been one hell of a thread derailment. Wow.

The Shore is a one-trick pony as it is today. Aggressive, technical, singletrack. New kid tries it, breaks an arm. Women numbers remain low and they have to ride the same 3 or 4 trails because the level gets too high fast.

uhh…you have a pretty piss-poor opinion of female riders. i know i'm not speaking only for myself when i say i hardly ride only 3-4 trails on the shore. personally i love agressive, technical, singletrack, but hey, thats just me :) i think you have to earn your right to ride the shore, and if you can ride it, then you can ride anywhere.

i still see guys ripping fromme with light xc bikes and the seat way up high. they usually kick my ass too.

I'm just wondering…

Wouldn't the construction of a greenish/blueish singletrack trail somewhere on either Fromme or Seymour help the political climate down there?

Even though local government apparently has a ban on no new trail building, wouldn't it actually be in their best interests to have this type of trail built?

Wouldn't it be in NSMBA's best interests to have some easier singletrack, so as to represent a wider segment of the riding population instead of 'those crazy freeriders' (as perceived by non-bikers who just don't get it)?

I'm just wondering…

Wouldn't the construction of a greenish/blueish singletrack trail somewhere on either Fromme or Seymour help the political climate down there?

Even though local government apparently has a ban on no new trail building, wouldn't it actually be in their best interests to have this type of trail built?

Wouldn't it be in NSMBA's best interests to have some easier singletrack, so as to represent a wider segment of the riding population instead of 'those crazy freeriders' (as perceived by non-bikers who just don't get it)?

you would think that would make sense, but some people seem to disagree

I'm just wondering…

Wouldn't the construction of a greenish/blueish singletrack trail somewhere on either Fromme or Seymour help the political climate down there?

Even though local government apparently has a ban on no new trail building, wouldn't it actually be in their best interests to have this type of trail built?

Wouldn't it be in NSMBA's best interests to have some easier singletrack, so as to represent a wider segment of the riding population instead of 'those crazy freeriders' (as perceived by non-bikers who just don't get it)?

As a newbie rider, I'd say yes, that would be nice, depending on the overall needs of nsmba and the riders that ride these 3 mountains.

Just wondering, what did you have in mind for this greenish-bluish trail, compared with say Griffen or LOC? Less difficult than all of these?

I'm just wondering…

Wouldn't the construction of a greenish/blueish singletrack trail somewhere on either Fromme or Seymour help the political climate down there?

Even though local government apparently has a ban on no new trail building, wouldn't it actually be in their best interests to have this type of trail built?

Wouldn't it be in NSMBA's best interests to have some easier singletrack, so as to represent a wider segment of the riding population instead of 'those crazy freeriders' (as perceived by non-bikers who just don't get it)?

Yes and its already happening, such as BP, DB and LOC or in some cases a "safe

Lots of good discussion here…and a good addition to the discussion at the NSMBA AGM. Syncro hit the nail on the head a couple pages back:

this has gotten way off topic, but here's something else to consider. a lot of what has helped legitimize the NSMBA in the eyes of gov't is a slight shift towards things such as the work on both BP's - baden powel and bridle path. ask yourselves if you think keeping the nature of the trails hardcore and a fringe sport is going to help in keeping the trails open and legitimizing mountain biking in the eyes of the public and gov't? i want to keep the shore mystique/difficulty intact, but at the same time see a lot of benefit in having a small piece of the pie cater to a lesser rider. it comes down to marketing and the way we present ourselves and this sport.

The way I see it for the NSMBA to continue to grow and thrive without a croe 20-30 people doing 80% of the work we need to cast the net wider i.e. getting kids and other less aggressive riders invloved (and dare I say people from other sports). The one sure fire way to do this is to broaden the type of trails that exist.

Personally I enjoy a rip up Seymor and Fromme that includes hard trails and easy trails, sometimes Griffen or BP is a nice warm-down after the upper trails. Trails can also have hard and easy features on them, case in point is Bobsled and Natural High. Each of those trails have elements of varying difficulty.

As for the comment about women riders, every time I have gone up Fromme this year I have seen equal if not more women riding than men.

- A

I'm just wondering…

Wouldn't the construction of a greenish/blueish singletrack trail somewhere on either Fromme or Seymour help the political climate down there?

Even though local government apparently has a ban on no new trail building, wouldn't it actually be in their best interests to have this type of trail built?

Wouldn't it be in NSMBA's best interests to have some easier singletrack, so as to represent a wider segment of the riding population instead of 'those crazy freeriders' (as perceived by non-bikers who just don't get it)?

Sure.

As I mentioned in my previous post. The trails are dictated by the terrain. If work was done on Grannies, for example, to make it easier it would be another Pipeline, which ( apparently ) is a difficult trail.

All the trails that have been armoured are SIGNIFICANTLY easier then they were before work was done on them.

The NSMBA has had trail days in terrain more suited to XC riding. The turnout to these days are minimal.

Why is that? It seems that volunteers do not want to work on XC trails or XC riders do not want to come out to work on the XC trails.

The ONLY way an xc trail will be built, or an xc area will be developed will be for the area to be identified ( LSCR has the best terrain for this ) willingness of the landowners, and MONEY to PAY a crew to come in flag the route and build the trail.

The work we have done on the Baden Powell and Bridle Path has made these trails the best XC area on the shore. They are still difficult compared to XC trails in other areas such as Squamish, SSC, SFU etc.

The ONLY way an xc trail will be built, or an xc area will be developed will be for the area to be identified ( LSCR has the best terrain for this ) willingness of the landowners, and MONEY to PAY a crew to come in flag the route and build the trail.
.

Amen to that. If we're to try to make or renovate a trail for newer riders, why should we expect strong attendance at such a trail day ? No, a different strategy than NSMBA's current volly model is needed to this end. Paid crews are it. But that's ok, because the shore has demostrated the economic arguement for mtb.

NSMBA has done a great job over the years, and my comments shouldn't be mistaken for critism of NSMBA. Given their current mandate, they're doing what they set out to do. Where I'm coming from is to ask: what should NSMBA set out to do, and should all the current NSMBA rolls fall on their shoulders (ie paid crews vs volunteers)? There are plenty of riders saying the NSMBA has gone the wrong way and made trails too easy, and I think this derailed thread has shown the other side of the arguement.

Maybe my opinion on this whole issue is clouded by Whistler-thinking, so feel free to ignore the following random thoughts:

Whistler municipality is currently undergoing a study to determine the future of biking here. Instead of closing trails, their priority is actually to make sure that there are trails for each ability level in each part of town in an attempt to reduce the number of people driving to trail heads. The municipality also received major credit for the Zappa trails (the blue line at Lost Lake) during this summer's IMBA conference for working on something suitable to intermediates that is also fun for advanced level riders.

Most people only care about trails being built/maintained for their own skill level…understandably so. I'm just wondering where everyone down there takes their children, boyfriend/girlfriend, siblings, etc when they get into the sport. It's all well and good that other parts of the lower mainland or Squamish have trails more suited to these lower levels, but what if a kid wanted to go for a ride after school or if an adult just learning wanted to go for a ride after work?

Granted, the slopes are different in North Van than in Whistler so building a greenish/blue trail is easier said than done. But Pemberton, which seems to consist entirely of flat flood-plain [HTML_REMOVED] mountainside, is able to have some blue trails.

I haven't seen Lower Oil Can yet so I can't comment on it, but I am interested in checking it out sometime soon to see what the trail is now like. Building optional lines on trails is also a great call (whether the options are black/double black or blue/black) when done properly and hopefully will continue.

Amen to that. If we're to try to make or renovate a trail for newer riders, why should we expect strong attendance at such a trail day ? No, a different strategy than NSMBA's current volly model is needed to this end. Paid crews are it. But that's ok, because the shore has demostrated the economic arguement for mtb.

In my book, being a new rider does not excuse you from going to trail days. I started going to trail days just about the same time I started riding the shore.

If people really cared that much about easier, XC type trails, they would show up at trail days.

To me, I think the low attendance for XC type trail days, and lower general interest in building those is a symptom of exactly that: POOR GENERAL INTEREST. The majority wants harder trails, and they happen to put in the work to sustain them, I don't see a problem with that. And by the way, a lot of people who like harder trails put a lot of man hours to make LOC an easy option on the Shore…

I don't like your suggestion about paid crews. To me, that means that paid crews (Apparently, you think some $$$ will miraculously fall from the sky) are going to build trails for the minority of riders that want easier XC trails but fail to help out, while volunteers will continue to put in countless hours for trails that are enjoyed by the vast majority. For some reason, that doesn't sound right to me….
If paid crews help out, they should work on ALL levels of trails…

This would involve a bridge over the Seymore in front of the dam making a loop up the spur 4 road over the bridge, then into the hatchery from there down through the old growth trail and onto the trailway. Not really an technical xc ride (mostly road).

I thought a singletrack was what they were discussing?