The cost of education. (Mass debate)

I was reading the article in the Georgia Straight yesterday about how the cost of education is rising so rapidly and the government needs to do something about it. I then read through that affording life thread and saw people saying the same thing.

Education is a privilege, not a right.

I'm tired of hearing stories about "Poor me, I'm $30,000 in debt (I'm just using this as an arbitrary number) and I'm going to be a slave to the system for the next 15 years trying to pay it down." Here's what I think: you made a poor investment. If you were smart, you would NOT be putting your money (and let's not forget 4 years of hard effort/lost wages too) into a degree that will put you in this position. Frankly, if you spend that much money on getting a philosophy degree, sweet, but what are you going to do when you graduate, become a philosopher? I hear they make great coin… cough cough. Your degree is only a worthwhile investment if you know that it will pay itself off in the long run. If I was looking to invest $30k (plus 4 years of life!) in stocks/mutual funds, you'd best be knowing I'm going to research them well. I'm NOT going to invest in a mutual fund that I know is going to go belly up in 4 years time.

It's a basic structure of supply and demand.

"Most jobs look for a university degree nowadays when they used to only look for highschool diploma. Starbucks won't hire me without an arts degree!" What does that say? Your university degree is becoming less valuable because it is TOO common. What does that say? You should forgo getting your degree in the first place, it's useless. The market is oversaturated and you're being underpaid for your education. If less people had their degrees, demand for those that do would increase, wages would increase, and tada, your degree would then become worthwhile. Choose something that isn't as common, and it's far more valuable.

University is too easy.

This is why so many people are graduating, which is leading to the cause of the devaluation of your degree, and also causing people to spend $30k on a useless degree instead of $10k and dropping out after 2 years. It sounds harsh, and maybe feels like a waste of $10k, but you have effectively saved $20k and the only thing you're missing out on is (an ostensibly useless) degree. The best people to have these degrees are the creme de la creme intellectuals, in my honest opinion. If little Billy is the next Einstein, but he lives in the hood and can't afford university, there are student loan programs to help him, and if he really is the next Einstein, he'll get a great job when he graduates and easily pay that loan down. Ergo, no financial burden for those who deserve to be at university.

They should stop graduating too many people from these programs which do not have graduates that are high in demand. I'm not too shortsighted to see that if they did this for programs whose graduates are in need (nursing etc) it would be pretty counter productive. If twice as many people failed, my degree when I do complete it will become twice as valuable.

This opens up a can of worms, as I recall reading perhaps a year ago about someone who failed out of law school after first year and sued (!) the school for accepting him in the first place, taking his tuition money and then flunking him out after first year. (The school should've counter-sued him for failing out and thus lost revenue on their part…). Schools are too money hungry to flunk out all those kids, they lose these kids tuition money. That $30,000 debt that Johnny has is $30,000 in the pocket of his school.

I keep reading about how the "real cost of education" is far higher than what I pay in tuition. If this was the case, why wouldn't the schools flunk more people out such that they could save money?

While I agree the general public needs to be better educated, I don't feel this education system is working well at that goal. It's causing financial burden to people with poor foresight instead.

That's my opinion. Is education a privilege, or a right? Discuss.

assuming we are talking about post secondary education here. it is neither a privilege nor a right, it is a choice.

education should not be so expensive that only the wealthy can afford it but at the same time it should not be just given away because then the quality would suffer with no one to help pay for it. it should made affordable so anyone that CHOOSES to go can afford to go without spending years in debt.

post secondary education should be much much cheaper and much much harder to get into

the government plays a role in education and for alot of people that includes post secondary

Is it too easy, or are there too many seats?

Limiting class size or the number of seats available would increase the competition to get in to programs - so theoretically only the best and the most committed would be accepted. The lower number of seats and the competitive selection would keep the number of graduates low and the marketplace demand and wages high, making it feasible to pay off the average $30 000 student debt before retirement.

oh and "arts" should be a thing of the past.

post sec is about honing in on something specific, not about 4 more years of high school.

for law there should be pre-law, for med pre med etc

**i am talking about the ideal government involvement etc. by no means do i think getting an arts degree and partying for 4 years is necessarily a bad thing

oh and "arts" should be a thing of the past.

post sec is about honing in on something specific, not about 4 more years of high school.

for law there should be pre-law, for med pre med etc

**i am talking about the ideal government involvement etc. by no means do i think getting an arts degree and partying for 4 years is necessarily a bad thing

i think that's a bit narrow-minded. there are a lot of 'useful' disciplines that fall under the arts faculty.

unless you mean one of those general degrees… then i somewhat see your point

i think that's a bit narrow-minded. there are a lot of 'useful' disciplines that fall under the arts faculty.

unless you mean one of those general degrees… then i somewhat see your point

yeah, didn't get specific enough

i am talking about the "degree for the sake of a degree" degrees

obviously there are some useful applications for a history degree, but needing to get one in order to get into law school seems not a great idea

but the only way i will suceed and have a happy life is if i go to university!!!

Arts should not be a thing of the past, its that it shouldn't be just 4 years of general arts studies, after year one, they should be encouraged required to specialize in something specific. For example. the Theatre program at UBC, you can't go all 4 years and just take theatre, you take the first year general arts, 2nd year theatre, then you have to either audition for the acting program, submit a portfolio for the design program or the creative writing program. Then once you have the BFA you can come back and take your MFA and specialize in a whole other level of theatre related professions (dramaturgy,directing, stagecraft, etc). Its not that you have a degree, its what you actually do with it after you get it that counts. When I hear the i have a degree, my response is, yeah so what are you doing with it.

Good points Keefer!! I definately agree that the sheer number of people graduating with degrees devalues the significance of them. The requirement to pass should be much higher. Many courses(most?) require only 50 or 60[HTML_REMOVED]#37; to graduate. I think this requirement should be much higher. Maybe we need a 80% grade to pass?

Didn't there used to be somewhere where your highschool grades determined the level of post secondary education you recieved as in A and B+ students went to Uni, B and C went to college, tech schools and o on, or that in high school you made the choice to enter university/academic prep or tech depending on your grades and aptitude.

the thing about arts is that to really do alot with it, you need post grad. then you get some decent coin.

most people in arts aren't really working towards anything. So when they leave university, they're 30k in the hole and can't find a job. University isn't expensive if you know what you're doing. You can actually pay off an entire 4 years of schooling in your period of studies if you're smart about it.

I think a lot of the people look at an education in purely financial terms. You gain much more than job potential in university/college/whatever.

I have a degree in anthropology, but no job in it. Even if I did get a job in it, I still wouldn't make very much money.

I don't look at my education as a waste though. Education in and of itself is a worthy pursuit, and I learned a lot about a lot of things in University, not just anthro stuff.