Consuming soya based protein products makes you grow titties?

Yeah, I know … its just me. I figure if God (or whatever) had meant for me to ingest 1.5 g of protein per lb of bodyweight per day, he would have given me the body chemistry of a polar bear or a tiger and sowed the earth with isolated beta-lactoglobulins for me to forage for or stalk, catch and eat.

It would have been far easier. I am just trying to get to Reductimat size. Once I get there, then I think that might be enough.

Consuming 300 g protein/amino acids per day through supplements is not my idea of healthy nutrition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_%28nutrient%29#Excess_consumption

i appreciate the link but there is a lot of misrepresentation going on there. in order to make the statement they are making they need to quantify it and they clearly do not do that. for some individuals, a seemingly overly high protein intake may be perfectly adequate and what is needed to sustain that indiviuals activity patterns. so to be accurate if the link had said consuming 20% more protein (for example) than one's dietary needs is potentially harmful it would be ok.

So,has anybody grown sweet boobies yet?

Lol. A 1gm to 1.5gm of protein per pound of body weight is a pretty standard prescription when one is lifting and working at building mass.

Also, when dieting down, increasing protein intake assists in preserving muscle.

I gave up on being a 140lb Cyclist.

ugh

while it may be standard "presciption" there really isn't a lot of evidence to supoport 3.3g of protein per kg of bodyweight (1.5g/lb), even 1g/lb can be considered high. and to relate to what Duncan was saying, there comes a point where we should maybe ask ourselves if we need to supplement because we simply can't eat enough food then maybe we're doing something wrong?

it's kind of like asking at what point do we stop becomming human and more of a lab experiment. our genetics will dictate that we have a certain potential and once we reach that point or get very close to it we stop getting bigger/stronger/faster. in order to push past that point we have to start doing things that can only be described as unnatural - and this includes over the counter supplements. it's akin to using a bench shirt or a squat suit and knee wraps and claiming to be a "natural" lifter - it's all irrelevant and one might as well be cranked up too.

so wrt physical activity (and muscle mass) it's about providing enough food energy to meet one's energy demands. so while bodyweight does factor into caloric requirement, it's not based on it. you can have two individuals who weigh different amounts yet have the same caloric requirements and thus the same protein requirements as well.

There is a lot of judgement down there. If I want to pick up 700 pounds who are you to say I shouldn't? Or what if I want to be the fastest up Mt. Seymour? Is that verboten too?

The fact is, if you want to push your boundaries you are by definition a lab experiment.

When I train for strength and I eat the suggested amount of protein for sedentary people my recovery tanks. When I eat more, I'm fine.

ugh

while it may be standard "presciption" there really isn't a lot of evidence to supoport 3.3g of protein per kg of bodyweight (1.5g/lb), even 1g/lb can be considered high. and to relate to what Duncan was saying, there comes a point where we should maybe ask ourselves if we need to supplement because we simply can't eat enough food then maybe we're doing something wrong?

it's kind of like asking at what point do we stop becomming human and more of a lab experiment. our genetics will dictate that we have a certain potential and once we reach that point or get very close to it we stop getting bigger/stronger/faster. in order to push past that point we have to start doing things that can only be described as unnatural - and this includes over the counter supplements. it's akin to using a bench shirt or a squat suit and knee wraps and claiming to be a "natural" lifter - it's all irrelevant and one might as well be cranked up too.

so wrt physical activity (and muscle mass) it's about providing enough food energy to meet one's energy demands. so while bodyweight does factor into caloric requirement, it's not based on it. you can have two individuals who weigh different amounts yet have the same caloric requirements and thus the same protein requirements as well.

ugh

while it may be standard "presciption" there really isn't a lot of evidence to supoport 3.3g of protein per kg of bodyweight (1.5g/lb), even 1g/lb can be considered high. and to relate to what Duncan was saying, there comes a point where we should maybe ask ourselves if we need to supplement because we simply can't eat enough food then maybe we're doing something wrong?

it's kind of like asking at what point do we stop becomming human and more of a lab experiment. our genetics will dictate that we have a certain potential and once we reach that point or get very close to it we stop getting bigger/stronger/faster. in order to push past that point we have to start doing things that can only be described as unnatural - and this includes over the counter supplements. it's akin to using a bench shirt or a squat suit and knee wraps and claiming to be a "natural" lifter - it's all irrelevant and one might as well be cranked up too.

so wrt physical activity (and muscle mass) it's about providing enough food energy to meet one's energy demands. so while bodyweight does factor into caloric requirement, it's not based on it. you can have two individuals who weigh different amounts yet have the same caloric requirements and thus the same protein requirements as well.

Hey, proofs in the pudding. It can be over debated, it works and I managed to gain 25lbs and still have some abs. Now dieting down again.

I am no where near my biggest or strongest ever. Previous bests were parallel squats with 450 and bench for 8 reps with 315lbs. I am not a total newb, but am not 27 anymore either. But I shouldn't be anywhere near my strength potential

Total caloric requirements is just how much energy I need for the day to achieve my goals. I am eating about 3000 calories a day right now and basically eating according to a protein/fat/carb balance that works for me. you arleady know that 1gram protein equals 4 calories, 1gm of carb equals 4 calories and i gram of fat equals 9 calories. So, this is simple math. I am eating 1,200 calories from protein, 1,200 from carbs and about another 600 from fat/oils/nuts during the day.

No beer, added sugar, no dairy, no wheat. I add whey protein isolate after a workout and with oatmeal for breakfast. The rest is all fresh food.

It's not rocket science.

I can't really see how that would be too much.

There is a lot of judgement down there. If I want to pick up 700 pounds who are you to say I shouldn't? Or what if I want to be the fastest up Mt. Seymour? Is that verboten too?

The fact is, if you want to push your boundaries you are by definition a lab experiment.

When I train for strength and I eat the suggested amount of protein for sedentary people my recovery tanks. When I eat more, I'm fine.

yeah, i know it is and thought that but decided to type it out anyways. i'm not necessarily railing against picking up 700lbs, maybe just the method of how to do it. pushing one's boundaries isn't necessarily being a lab experiment though - that's part of being human. crossing over to a lab experiment is going beyond what is naturally sustainable - ie lots of performace supplements. whether one wants to do that is up to them, but let's just be real about it and call it like it really is. for example, i do not view a guy lifting in a suit the same as a guy lifitng raw.

your last comment is completely straw though, as your calorie intake is not the same as a sendentary person. eating a conservative 45% carb. 30% fat and 25% protein may very well put you in the 1 to 1.5 range depending on what you way. it may also put you under or over. the argument is not so much about what the number ends up being, but how it's determined. just saying X amount of protein per pound of bodyweight is misleading.

Hey, proofs in the pudding. It can be over debated, it works and I managed to gain 25lbs and still have some abs. Now dieting down again.

I am no where near my biggest or strongest ever. Previous bests were parallel squats with 450 and bench for 8 reps with 315lbs. I am not a total newb, but am not 27 anymore either. But I shouldn't be anywhere near my strength potential

Total caloric requirements is just how much energy I need for the day to achieve my goals. I am eating about 3000 calories a day right now and basically eating according to a protein/fat/carb balance that works for me. you arleady know that 1gram protein equals 4 calories, 1gm of carb equals 4 calories and i gram of fat equals 9 calories. So, this is simple math. I am eating 1,200 calories from protein, 1,200 from carbs and about another 600 from fat/oils/nuts during the day.

No beer, added sugar, no dairy, no wheat. I add whey protein isolate after a workout and with oatmeal for breakfast. The rest is all fresh food.

It's not rocket science.

I can't really see how that would be too much.

it's not too much for you, but that's where the misnomer lies. to reiterate what i said to Reductimat, your nuterient intake and ratios may happen to work out to the 1-1.5g number, for others it may not. so let's focus on using nuteient intake ratios and no just some arbitrary number.

you're on a 40C/40P/20F ratio right now and chances are you may have just as good or possibly better results going 40C/30P/30F or even 50C/25P/25F. the idea is that the high protein number is not as critical as the part-you-with-your-money-supplement-industry would like you to believe.

On the weight gain side, carbs were much higher as was fat. Both have been reduced. At one point I was eating 4 cups of rice each day and almost 80 grams of oats at breakfast. That was hard. ;)

On the weight gain side, carbs were much higher as was fat. Both have been reduced. At one point I was eating 4 cups of rice each day and almost 80 grams of oats at breakfast. That was hard. ;)

ahh, i thought those were your numbers going up which i felt was weird as the calorie count seemed low even for an older gentleman such as yourself. ;) it makes more sense for your way down, but i would still be inclined to drop protein a bit and bump the fat as dietary fat doesn't equal body fat - but i'm sure you know that.

ahh, i thought those were your numbers going up which i felt was weird as the calorie count seemed low even for an older gentleman such as yourself. ;) it makes more sense for your way down, but i would still be inclined to drop protein a bit and bump the fat as dietary fat doesn't equal body fat - but i'm sure you know that.

Yes, I am leaning out now. May 9th is the next competition. Need something to keep myself from gaining unnecessary girth!

Everything way higher before. I especially liked all the nuts and oils I got to eat before. This will change to over the next 13 weeks.

When I train for strength and I eat the suggested amount of protein for sedentary people my recovery tanks. When I eat more, I'm fine.

Anyone who is reasonably active would require more protein than a sedentary person. If you are training just for bulk/muscle mass, yeah - go crazy. Many other pursuits call for an optimal balance between size, strength, stamina and speed. If only there was a sport that required the freakin' dopest beer belly, it would be win-win!

yeah, i know it is and thought that but decided to type it out anyways. i'm not necessarily railing against picking up 700lbs, maybe just the method of how to do it. pushing one's boundaries isn't necessarily being a lab experiment though - that's part of being human. crossing over to a lab experiment is going beyond what is naturally sustainable - ie lots of performace supplements. whether one wants to do that is up to them, but let's just be real about it and call it like it really is. for example, i do not view a guy lifting in a suit the same as a guy lifitng raw.

your last comment is completely straw though, as your calorie intake is not the same as a sendentary person. eating a conservative 45% carb. 30% fat and 25% protein may very well put you in the 1 to 1.5 range depending on what you way. it may also put you under or over. the argument is not so much about what the number ends up being, but how it's determined. just saying X amount of protein per pound of bodyweight is misleading.

Yes, pushing ones boundaries is a science experiment.

There are very few 40+ year old's who want to lift over 600 pounds but predominantly spend their time doing gravity sports and who sit for long periods of time because of their line of work and refuse to abstain from beer drinking and eat pizza more than they should and who really like the idea of an 8-pack but know they won't really put the effort into it but have that in the back of their mind so they will eat pretty decently a percentage of the time. Given that, there is no literature on how to go about what I want. There is only general literature which I need to piece together in the best way that suits me.

All science that is telling us what to eat with any decent sample set will be coming from sedentary people. Which is where your 1 to 1.5 is lying. I need more. How much more? I have no fucking clue, but it usually equates to a shake right when I get up and a shake right before I go to bed.

I know this as fact from my lab experiments.

So no, not a strawman, just a circuitous route at getting to my point.

Now, regarding supplements, I never take them as I find them completely useless. Except for creatine, that seems to work as intended.

Now, regarding supplements, I never take them as I find them completely useless. Except for creatine, that seems to work as intended.

Hey, that's two supplements right there!

I will admit I like pre workouts that make my face tingle and hair feel weird. But, it's 5am and I need a get me going. But, on this board cocaine may carry less stigma!