ebikes on the Shore

Posted by: Hepcat

Mostly because can't feather the throttle like you would on a motorcycle, it's an on/off switch through the cranks, which makes traction control difficult. But also because you can't put in a max effort on the cranks as there's a limiter. Your input isn't going straight to the wheel, it's going through a motor which caps input. It's a foreign experience.

I tried a loose section on my son's rental E-mtb that he couldn't clean, I couldn't clean it either and not for lack of trying. When I switched back to my (27.5) mountain bike, I cleaned it on the first try. It wasn't even a difficult section it turned out.

Long non-technical sections like low grade fire roads or paved sections were fantastic on the E-bike, everything trail related wasn't great. That weight is a constant factor too, climbing descending, pushing, it's inescapable.

Massive weight concentrated in one area at the battery is not something we've experienced as mountain bikers. My 45lb freeride bike had the weight distributed evenly and rode well in technical situations, while the E-bike felt like it had a 5kilo lead weight stuck to the frame. Which it did I suppose...

This is exactly my experience when I've tested ebikes. I hated that because I was used to traction and power control that I could manage through body position though I guess if the ebike is your entree into mountain biking you'd just avoid this kind of riding altogether. I didn't like the feeling of my power being processed through the motor first, it felt very indirect and there was a little lag which made technical climbing more difficult than it needed to be.

Posted by: Hepcat

Mostly because can't feather the throttle like you would on a motorcycle, it's an on/off switch through the cranks, which makes traction control difficult. But also because you can't put in a max effort on the cranks as there's a limiter. Your input isn't going straight to the wheel, it's going through a motor which caps input. It's a foreign experience.

I tried a loose section on my son's rental E-mtb that he couldn't clean, I couldn't clean it either and not for lack of trying. When I switched back to my (27.5) mountain bike, I cleaned it on the first try. It wasn't even a difficult section it turned out.

Long non-technical sections like low grade fire roads or paved sections were fantastic on the E-bike, everything trail related wasn't great. That weight is a constant factor too, climbing descending, pushing, it's inescapable.

Massive weight concentrated in one area at the battery is not something we've experienced as mountain bikers. My 45lb freeride bike had the weight distributed evenly and rode well in technical situations, while the E-bike felt like it had a 5kilo lead weight stuck to the frame. Which it did I suppose...

Hmmm, almost seems like the best option would be a SS HT with a hub mounted motor with a throttle of sorts so you can regulate the amount of help you want. Giver for fire roads and less help for more technical sections where finesses is required. Electric Meat!

/s

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Hepcat

Mostly because can't feather the throttle like you would on a motorcycle, it's an on/off switch through the cranks, which makes traction control difficult. But also because you can't put in a max effort on the cranks as there's a limiter. Your input isn't going straight to the wheel, it's going through a motor which caps input. It's a foreign experience.

I tried a loose section on my son's rental E-mtb that he couldn't clean, I couldn't clean it either and not for lack of trying. When I switched back to my (27.5) mountain bike, I cleaned it on the first try. It wasn't even a difficult section it turned out.

Long non-technical sections like low grade fire roads or paved sections were fantastic on the E-bike, everything trail related wasn't great. That weight is a constant factor too, climbing descending, pushing, it's inescapable.

Massive weight concentrated in one area at the battery is not something we've experienced as mountain bikers. My 45lb freeride bike had the weight distributed evenly and rode well in technical situations, while the E-bike felt like it had a 5kilo lead weight stuck to the frame. Which it did I suppose...

Hmmm, almost seems like the best option would be a SS HT with a hub mounted motor with a throttle of sorts so you can regulate the amount of help you want. Giver for fire roads and less help for more technical sections where finesses is required. Electric Meat!

/s

As soon as you make them good enough to be really useful you've basically described an e-trials or e-moto, both of which are better at their jobs than any pedelec mountain bike could be.

Posted by: craw

As soon as you make them good enough to be really useful you've basically described an e-trials or e-moto, both of which are better at their jobs than any pedelec mountain bike could be.

It makes you wonder where things will be in another 5-7 years, both for off-road e-machines and commuter e-machines. The govt is going to have to be quick with regulation and enforcement as the current crop rules ain't going to cut it.

Posted by: syncro

It makes you wonder where things will be in another 5-7 years, both for off-road e-machines and commuter e-machines. The govt is going to have to be quick with regulation and enforcement as the current crop rules ain't going to cut it.

There are already lots of non-legal machines rolling around. There are no rules for what is illegal to sell in terms of offroad use for e-MTBs. Throttle, pegs, higher powered motors and batteries...it's all fair game. There may be land use restrictions, but as we've seen already they aren't enforced in practice. So the limit of what can be used on the trails comes down to social pressure. A person gets enough stink eye from enough people the enjoyment of riding that machine can be diminished enough to change their desire to use it. 

What will people tolerate in 5-7 years on the trails? I have no idea. If you had told the 2012 me that I'd see motors on the trails regularly I would have said you were nuts. Yet here we are.

In every other motorsport humans engage in there is a development towards faster/more powerful machines and longer range. I'll be surprised if that doesn't happen with e-MTBs.

Posted by: Vikb

Posted by: syncro

In every other motorsport humans engage in there is a development towards faster/more powerful machines and longer range. I'll be surprised if that doesn't happen with e-MTBs.

That’s is something to keep in mind. You hear that ebikes are the future of mountainbikes (according to certain people that seem to need to market the hell out of them) but then, what’s the future of ebikes? They are running out of geometry changes as reasons to buy a new bike or wheel size and gear numbers.

26” e-mtb are 12% longer range and twice the torque.

Posted by: andy-eunson

That’s is something to keep in mind. You hear that ebikes are the future of mountainbikes (according to certain people that seem to need to market the hell out of them) but then, what’s the future of ebikes? They are running out of geometry changes as reasons to buy a new bike or wheel size and gear numbers.

The future of everything is artificial reality, an environment where any of your wants and desires can be obtained with no effort. This will be the new drug. The Matrix is waiting for humanity.

Posted by: andy-eunson

They are running out of geometry changes as reasons to buy a new bike or wheel size and gear numbers.

There are an infinite number of colour combos to sell folks. Throttles, pegs, bigger motors & bigger batteries. Steering stabilizers for the heavier/faster machines. Auto tech cleaners that scan the trail or use a database to provide advice for how to ride the easiest line and manage as much of the process for you as possible. ABS. Auto gear box 25+ speed drivetrains. Electronic suspension. Make 'em obsolete in 4-5 years so you have to buy a new one even if yours hasn't broken yet.

I think there are many ways to "improve" e-MTBs.

Posted by: Vikb

There are an infinite number of colour combos to sell folks. Throttles, pegs, bigger motors & bigger batteries. Steering stabilizers for the heavier/faster machines. Auto tech cleaners that scan the trail or use a database to provide advice for how to ride the easiest line and manage as much of the process for you as possible. ABS. Auto gear box 25+ speed drivetrains. Electronic suspension. Make 'em obsolete in 4-5 years so you have to buy a new one even if yours hasn't broken yet.

I think there are many ways to "improve" e-MTBs.

none of that is 'e' specific. MTB industry does just fine with fabricating reasons to convince people their current bikes suck.

Posted by: Couch_Surfer

none of that is 'e' specific. MTB industry does just fine with fabricating reasons to convince people their current bikes suck.

Throttles and pegs aren't all that useful without a motor.  Regardless not many people are buying Pennyfarthings so the update cycle has slowed a lot for folks making them. The e-MTB industry is where the action will be in the future and where the developments will come. If some new tech there will work on a bicycle that may get adopted in that arena. But, people aren't going to be thinking about bicycles as they come up with "new and improved" features.

For an uncertain number of the battery packs (likely less than 15 percent of all units), conductive water (salt or chlorinated, for example) can penetrate the seal around the Control Pad. In “very rare cases,” that could trigger a short-circuit, posing a fire or burn hazard, Specialized said.

Pressure washing your ebike can cause your ebike to short and catch fire. I guess fire risk isn't limited to just super cheap ebikes.

Needless to say, this is a risk I can live without.

https://bikerumor.com/specialized-levo-kenevo-recall-expanded/

I guess it depends on the type of e-bike system you have and how long you have used it.  With a proper torque sensing system, feathering the assistance you get is not a problem so it may be more an issue with the operator than the actual system.

Posted by: Hepcat

Mostly because can't feather the throttle like you would on a motorcycle, it's an on/off switch through the cranks, which makes traction control difficult. But also because you can't put in a max effort on the cranks as there's a limiter. Your input isn't going straight to the wheel, it's going through a motor which caps input. It's a foreign experience.

I tried a loose section on my son's rental E-mtb that he couldn't clean, I couldn't clean it either and not for lack of trying. When I switched back to my (27.5) mountain bike, I cleaned it on the first try. It wasn't even a difficult section it turned out.

Long non-technical sections like low grade fire roads or paved sections were fantastic on the E-bike, everything trail related wasn't great. That weight is a constant factor too, climbing descending, pushing, it's inescapable.

Massive weight concentrated in one area at the battery is not something we've experienced as mountain bikers. My 45lb freeride bike had the weight distributed evenly and rode well in technical situations, while the E-bike felt like it had a 5kilo lead weight stuck to the frame. Which it did I suppose...

so you base that on a one time try? program your ebike properly first before putting out baseless statements like that…