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Upper Dales rebuild

June 15, 2015, 2:55 p.m.
Posts: 642
Joined: June 8, 2005

Rode by on Sunday and noticed signed closure of Upper Dales. Access to Lower Dales is via the exit of Upper Dales 150 metres lower.

Is it true that the upper section will be a machine rebuild? Any details on this?

thx

June 15, 2015, 3:05 p.m.
Posts: 948
Joined: June 26, 2012

Some discussion here: http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=162060

June 15, 2015, 3:19 p.m.
Posts: 17873
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

I'm curious if work is happening yet. Anyone see a machine?

June 15, 2015, 3:31 p.m.
Posts: 323
Joined: June 23, 2011

Paddy Kaye of Joyride Bike parks is machine building a replacement for Upper Dales. Work has begun which is why people are asked to access Dales via the lower entrance.

Also, since this is a machine built trail and its hot and dry don't expect it to be very good until next year so don't be too anxious to ride it!

Remember how Tinder in Squamish was when it was first finished? Pretty soft…now its good! So give these trails the time they need to bed in!

http://mtbtrails.ca/ Author of Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides and Locals' Guide to Fraser Valley Rides.

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June 15, 2015, 4:07 p.m.
Posts: 611
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Paddy Kaye of Joyride Bike parks is machine building a replacement for Upper Dales. Work has begun which is why people are asked to access Dales via the lower entrance.

Also, since this is a machine built trail and its hot and dry don't expect it to be very good until next year so don't be too anxious to ride it!

Remember how Tinder in Squamish was when it was first finished? Pretty soft…now its good! So give these trails the time they need to bed in!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf-vCjW9dVg

it really is, Dale's was such a gem at one point.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

June 15, 2015, 5:58 p.m.
Posts: 642
Joined: June 8, 2005

it really is, Dale's was such a gem at one point.

Agreed, I have always liked it. Rode is last week before the sign went up and still enjoyed it despite the wear and tear it has seen.

Hoping the rebuilt trail will incorporate the technical challenges of the original Upper Dales.

June 15, 2015, 6:16 p.m.
Posts: 323
Joined: June 23, 2011

Dales fate was sealed when it became the feeder for Forever After. Sending so many riders of varying abilities down that trail just wasn't sustainable.

Before that it would see so few riders it still had pine cones on it in the middle of summer.

I used to go through Spider webs whenever I rode that trail!

http://mtbtrails.ca/ Author of Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides and Locals' Guide to Fraser Valley Rides.

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June 15, 2015, 7:05 p.m.
Posts: 642
Joined: June 8, 2005

There are could have been two entrances, the lower and easier access (also the exit from Upper Dales) and the upper entrance which could have been left as a more difficult option.

That said there are still a few spots on Lower Dales that are reasonably technical and then there is always the rock face. Does that mean that we would expect to see Lower Dales also modified to fit in with the many riders of varying abilities that will be heading down from the rebuilt Upper Dales.

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of the new work, but still appreciate getting through a technical trail. Funny enough I rode CBC and despite no longer being able to clear the entire trail on the trail bike and that it was quite rough, I actually enjoyed that change of pace from the new stellar flow trails.

Variety is the spice of life.

June 15, 2015, 7:08 p.m.
Posts: 15465
Joined: May 29, 2004

Dales fate was sealed when it became the feeder for Forever After. Sending so many riders of varying abilities down that trail just wasn't sustainable.

Before that it would see so few riders it still had pine cones on it in the middle of summer.

I used to go through Spider webs whenever I rode that trail!

Fucking progress.

June 15, 2015, 10:44 p.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

"Growing the sport"

June 16, 2015, 6:55 a.m.
Posts: 611
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Dales fate was sealed when it became the feeder for Forever After. Sending so many riders of varying abilities down that trail just wasn't sustainable.

Before that it would see so few riders it still had pine cones on it in the middle of summer.

I used to go through Spider webs whenever I rode that trail!

yup, my thoughts as well and a reason/need to have a regional plan for the trail system. now with a machine built entrance it's going to see even more traffic and probably get sanitized top to bottom. what made Dale's work and survive what it's location and relative lack of a continuation trail to lower on the mountain.

it's a shame because I had faith in Jacklyn and the mudbunnies crew to keep Dale's as Dale's and not turn it into something completely new.

I'm not a human in real life, I just play one on the internet. 

June 16, 2015, 7:45 a.m.
Posts: 948
Joined: June 26, 2012

yup, my thoughts as well and a reason/need to have a regional plan for the trail system. now with a machine built entrance it's going to see even more traffic and probably get sanitized top to bottom. what made Dale's work and survive what it's location and relative lack of a continuation trail to lower on the mountain.

it's a shame because I had faith in Jacklyn and the mudbunnies crew to keep Dale's as Dale's and not turn it into something completely new.

The section below the swamp could survive in its current state. I rode the trail last week thinking about what its future could hold, and the lower part was fairly erosion-free and, with the exception of the rock face (which now has a ride-around), the section below the swamp has a similar flavour to FA - not too steep with some punchy features. We just have to hope Metro Van doesn't get too excited.

The upper section that is being re-worked was very eroded, so I see how something needed to be done. As Sharon mentioned, I recall the pine needles on the trail when FA first opened. The current state of the top section is definitely a departure from that.

If they let the lower section live, I won't be too upset. The top part that is being re-worked isn't a very long section of trail, and while I wish it could exist in its form from a couple of years ago, its current state needed work.

June 16, 2015, 8:10 a.m.
Posts: 642
Joined: June 8, 2005

…The upper section that is being re-worked was very eroded, so I see how something needed to be done. As Sharon mentioned, I recall the pine needles on the trail when FA first opened…

Perhaps the pine cones and pine needles on the trail were not a sign of low ridership but a sign that those who rode the trail did not lock the brakes up at every corner and slide out the corners trying to emulate the popular videos.

I am hoping that when the dust settles on the rebuilt top portion of Dales, it will still have some technical features that force riders to deal with them or even for those varied riders to get off the bike and walk the section only to try it again on another day.

Not every trail should be able to ridden top to bottom by every rider. If a trail is a black trail then an beginner / intermediate rider should expect to not be able to ride the entire trail. A black trail should still challenge an experience rider as well. If I remember correctly, Dales is labelled as a black trail.

I was reminded of this ideal last week when riding 7th with some newer riders that have been managing the lower trails on Fromme and Espresso fairly well. They ended up walking a number of sections on 7th. We sometimes gloss over trails that we have ridden for while thinking they are pretty easy, when in fact they do have some fairly technical bits. Despite walking a number of sections both riders had smiles on their faces and said they wanted to ride 7th again after getting a better on the lower trails.

Small sample size but I do believe that riders that are new to the sport still want to ride trails that they can't ride, to get challenged and one day be able to master the trail. FWIW, both new riders were older riders.

June 16, 2015, 8:41 a.m.
Posts: 86
Joined: Aug. 22, 2011

"Growing the sport"

When a trail get works, people will ride it. If you want everything to stay the same, you're only fooling yourself.

June 16, 2015, 8:43 a.m.
Posts: 948
Joined: June 26, 2012

I'll copy this into this thread as well. I had emailed LSCR with my concerns about replacing a challenging gem with machine-built trail and encouraging them to communicate with the public and NSMBA. I received the following response:

"Thanks for taking the time to contact us.

In regards to your email, the NSMBA was notified of this work and a site visit took place to discuss all aspects of the project.

As you know, the LSCR is home to many kilometers of active mountain bike trails and we are exploring new options to assist with long term sustainability, environmental protection, and user enjoyment. This is a pilot project to determine the role machines may play in our trail network in the future.

Please do not hesitate to contact us again with any further questions or concerns.

Thank you."

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