Saint/Zee vs. Magura MT7/MT5 : mini review

The alternate working title of this post was "Ken Perras Was Right", but that sounded too much like click bait.

I've never been a lover of the "Servo Wave" (greater initial pad movement) of Shimano's current (and last) generation brakes, but being asked often (as someone with no monetary interest) for brake advice my recommendation has generally been the Saint/Zee.

Saint if you want "Made In Japan" and gold accents. Zee if you want the same power at a significant cost saving (Made in Shimano's own factory in Malaysia?).

In reference to my thinking (do you see what I see?), compared to the XTR Trail/XT/SLX brakes (and if you love yours that's great) where I find they have tons of initial "BITE" but that's that, I find that once you are through the initial Servo Wave pad-clapping the harder you pull on a Saint/Zee brake the more power you get from them (depth of power?)

Great brakes, a bit heavy (if you care… Honzo couldn't give a…), super easy to work on, very consistent performance, very reliable, nice lever feel. Easy to recommend.

I've been running M820s since ~ they came out and I have had M810s and M810s with XTR Trail levers before that.

…

I'm currently riding a set of Magura MT7 brakes which would be Magura's equivalent of the Saint (Made In Germany) vs. the MT5 which is made overseas -- with one caveat worth mentioning: where the Saint/Zee are basically the same the MT7 and MT5 have different lever configurations and if you wear smaller than a size large glove the MT7 will not come in close enough to the bar for you (the MT5 has a much greater range of lever reach adjustment).

Compared to the Saint the MT7 has a ridiculous amount more power. RIDICULOUS. And the lightest lever action of any brake I have ever used. Unlike the Shimano SW levers the power curve is very consistent, which is a good thing because until you get used to the brake there is a fine difference between a light feathering and accidental front wheelies.

Running a 7" Rotor with a 29" wheel the power is unlike anything I have used short of the old floating caliper Gustav system, which (as KPerras mentioned) has no where near the refined lever feel.

There are two pad options. One that is a solid pad actuated by two pistons (a la Saint/Zee) and the other which uses a separate pad for each piston (what I am using).

…

Anyways, if you own Saint or Zee brakes they are awesome, but if you are in the market for a new set of brakes before you drop the coin if you can find a set of the new Magura 4-Piston brakes to try out (even for a parking lot spin)… I've always been a fan of their products in general (I've previously owned Gustavs, '06 Louise FR, '07 Louise BAT, '09 Marta SL), so I wasn't skeptical in trying the MT7 but I was blown away.

If I was outfitting a second bike I would go MT5 w/ the MT7 style independent pad set-up.

I will report back on long term reliability.

i was literally just about to order another set of zee's. hmmmm…

Is the lever pivot still on the outer edge of the body?

i was literally just about to order another set of zee's. hmmmm…

If you're down SWerx way and want to take Honzo around the parking lot let me know.

It is not a small difference in power… like I said my first ride was a bit scary while getting used to the light lever action.

Is the lever pivot still on the outer edge of the body?

Yes. With a vertical MC design that is the logical place for it?

If I had $5 I would bet that you are now you're going to tell me what you don't like about that?

^The lever axle path probably sucks for enduro (Hi Jamie).

Ken Perras!!!!! No offence to Ken, but I know for a FACT that Dan Graham was touting the joys of the MT7 to you way before Ken. Or at least a similar amount of time.

FACT

Also, for those who don't need 4 piston brakes… The 2 piston offerings also provide tremendous light action and power. My gf is 3 rides in to her MT4 NEXT's and still can't get used to the power.

^The lever axle path probably sucks for enduro (Hi Jamie).

:)

Seriously curious what is "wrong" with it… I love to second guess bike industry engineering as much as the next guy, but there really seem to be two ways brakes are configured: lever actuates MC in a horizontal configuration (Current Saint/XT/XTR/SLX/ZEE, SRAM/Avid, Hope) or actuates MC in a vertical configuration (Current Magura, Hayes, Formula).

Most companies have used both configurations at some point.

The vertical configuration MCs all have the pivot in ~ the same place.

Ken Perras!!!!! No offence to Ken, but I know for a FACT that Dan Graham was touting the joys of the MT7 to you way before Ken.

I believe everything Dan tells me, but Ken Perras is one of the least biased, most opinionated, total gear-whores that I know.

Also, for those who don't need 4 piston brakes… The 2 piston offerings also provide tremendous light action and power. My gf is 3 rides in to her MT4 NEXT's and still can't get used to the power.

Glove size?

The one place Magura really dropped the ball was (for you gear swap'ers // given that they don't make drivetrains) they should have made their brakes I-Spec and Matchmaker compatible. Way to much effort to break up my partner's Shimano/Shimano set-up.

Given how many companies are making adapters to combine either-or it doesn't seem like it would have been a big engineering feat?

Glove size?

The one place Magura really dropped the ball was (for you gear swap'ers // given that they don't make drivetrains) they should have made their brakes I-Spec and Matchmaker compatible. Way to much effort to break up my partner's Shimano/Shimano set-up.

Given how many companies are making adapters to combine either-or it doesn't seem like it would have been a big engineering feat?

Tiny hands…..

When I set them up for her I dialed them all the way in, which I always have to for her brakes. And she wanted them dialed back out…. A lot more than I thought she would want.

There is a matchmaker style clamp available…. Just saying.

http://www.maguradirect-shop.com/magura-shiftmix-shifter-brake-adaptor-clamp-pair.html

Ha… so I need a Magura matchmaker adapter and then a Problem Solvers Miss-Match 2.0 adapter…

I guess I should have specified Shimano I-Spec compatible but I was trying to be PC for all the SRAMophilies.

Compared to the Saint the MT7 has a ridiculous amount more power. RIDICULOUS. And the lightest lever action of any brake I have ever used.

Anyways, if you own Saint or Zee brakes they are awesome, but if you are in the market for a new set of brakes before you drop the coin……….

Worth double the price per side?

Worth double the price per side?

Where did you get your price?

Street price is +~$70 per side for MT-7 over Saint (Even looking at Jenson it is ~+$85 CAD more for the MT-7)… it's more but not double.

MT-5 is ~+$25 per side over Zee.

MT-5 is definitely worth the extra $50 per set - in my opinion.

I guess riding is believing.

…

*Edit: I should have assumed you were comparing Shimano price from CRC. Even then I would certainly spend the (~$50 per wheel) difference between Zee and MT-5.

Yes. With a vertical MC design that is the logical place for it?

If I had $5 I would bet that you are now you're going to tell me what you don't like about that?

Yep you're totally right. Best place for the actuation of the piston.

The reason I don't like it and why I'm stuck on Sram (even though I accept that they aren't as reliable as others and DOT fluid sucks) is I find the lever pivot being close to the bar means that it's parallel to the grip when the pads contact.

I find it just feels more natural. No big deal though, I just think I've got used to it. To me the Guides feel in between the classic Avid lever and a Shimano. I think I'll have to start stockpiling Trail levers!