brake advice

Posted by: andy-eunson

This. My first set of Guide RSC were replaced under warranty. The second set are better but still inconsistent at times. Coming down LOTS the levers got closer to the grips. Went back after a couple days as I had to readjust the reach and pad contact. I ran out of adjustment on the first pair. The symptoms were the same for front and rear brakes and one would think there was a leak as I kept adjusting the lever pad contact out until there was no more adjustment and had to adjust the reach out. A bleed helped but was temporary. Levers did not snap back as they should either.

Interesting, that some folks have brake fade while I typically have lever pump (must be using the brakes too much).  I can start with the brakes at a nice distance from the bar, then as I ride down any extended stretch of trail where substantial and consistent braking is required, I find that the brake lever becomes firmer and extends further from the bar, causing a longer than comfortable reach to the lever.

It was suggested that I need to de-gas the shit out of the fluid before the bleed. The tip I got was to fill the syringe, pull back on the plunder and clamp it in a vice to leave the vacuum state for a while. Go make coffee, have a good dump, read some National Geographic articles, then do the bleed. That seemed to make a bit of difference.

Thread revival here....

I've got Deores which are starting to prove a little inadequate. They work for short descents but that's it. I'm not a huge fan of dot fluid after motorcycles so my options seem to be XT, Magura or the new TRPs as they all fall in the same price area. LBS recommend XT as they are a definite known quantity, there was a glowing review of the Maguras here and the TRPs certainly look interesting. I had no issue with Guides on the bikes I rented at whistler either but are there good systems that fall in the XT  price range?

One more question....each system touts it's own rotors as the ones to use but is that really necessary? For instance will I be missing out if I don't use icetech rotors with the XT brakes?

2nd bike with Guide RS brakes and can,t be happier . They do have a break in period but once the pads are seated they have been great in all conditions . I was a diehard Shimano guy until switching , and I am glad I did switch .

Posted by: stinky_dan

Thread revival here....

I've got Deores which are starting to prove a little inadequate. They work for short descents but that's it. I'm not a huge fan of dot fluid after motorcycles so my options seem to be XT, Magura or the new TRPs as they all fall in the same price area. LBS recommend XT as they are a definite known quantity, there was a glowing review of the Maguras here and the TRPs certainly look interesting. I had no issue with Guides on the bikes I rented at whistler either but are there good systems that fall in the XT  price range?

One more question....each system touts it's own rotors as the ones to use but is that really necessary? For instance will I be missing out if I don't use icetech rotors with the XT brakes?

Ice Tech rotors do help , and switching to a sintered brake pad helps a lot as well , other than getting a good bleed I can,t recommend anything else for the XT .

Isn't there a new 4-piston XT calliper coming out? Or go Zee if you need more power for XT-like pricing.  Formula Cura appears to be the similar price as XTs.

I got burned by a few pairs of SRAM X.0 brakes so I switched to Shimano.  I really liked the lever shape of the SRAMs but I enjoy functioning brakes more.

I don´t want to spoil the XT 4pot-party - but the new XT is technically identical to the current Saint and also the ZEE.

The calipers are identical, except for the machining/finish/color. The masters are identical to SLX on the ZEE, XTR on the Saint and XT to the XT M8000 2piston system.

And oil/fluid volumes, leverage rate and all that is exactly the same on all three brakes. If you use the same pads and rotors, you won´t be able to tell any difference in performance, because they perform the same.

You could discern a minimal weight difference, because of the master cylinders. And you don´t get tool free reach adjust on the ZEE. You can combine almost any Shimano master/caliper combination and have a reliable, working brake. Most of them are just the same three variations with different finishes and color/logo combination.

I´ve spent the last few seasons on various ZEE and Saint setups and have M8000 XT and SLX brakes on the backup bike, the GF´s bike and so on. At times swapped masters or calipers when someone bent or tore a lever etc. 

The only brake that ever acted up are the M8000 XTs. Had a leaky master which was warrantied, seemed to happen a lot with their first batch.

The M8000s (2pot XTs) are a notch better to modulate than the older XTs or the SLX and seem a bit stronger, maybe what you´re looking for.

My girlfriend didn´t like the Saints I put on her bike. She did go over the bars three times (uninjured) and found them "too strong". She doesn´t complain about the M8000 at all. I rode the same M8000s on my Reign for a while and didn´t notice them in a bad way. They were alright even on long steep trails for my 77kg. 

If you buy a set which was manufactured after July 2016, you´ll probably have no trouble.

I´d recommend to stick with a ZEE with 180mm rotors though - if they are too grabby with the 200mm rotor for you. I DO feel that the Zees modulate very well.

Or get sintered pads and 200mm Magura rotors for your ZEE.

Sintered pads without cooling fins and NON-icetech rotors are my favorite.

Actually I run Magura STORM HC rotors now - they are 2mm compared to Shimanos 1.8mm. NO noise, less vibration, no warp when hot and they last longer and are cheaper, also more braking surface for lots of bite.

And I personally wouldn´t run any SRAM/AVID brake with DOT anymore. I´ve had several Elixirs, had two sets of Guides (RSC and RC) and even though the lever shape is nice, after the second or third pad swap, they are toast. Start to leak, need constant re-bleeding, don´t offer tons of fade resistance and also not tons of stopping power.

Over here they are even more expensive. After warranty replacement I took em off my bikes, sold them to some avid lover and bought cheaper Shimanos. No going back.

thanks for an in depth reply.

So your best case is Zee with a 200mm magura at the front running the sintered. I can dig it

Ill keep this short and simple. I've had great experience with Hopes and XTs. Really like the Shimano lever feel, and Im surprised to hear so many people mentioning that they like the Guide lever feel over Shimano. Just goes to show how subjective it can be when it comes to brakes that work reliably. I guess what I've learnt from this thread is that the Guides haven't been consistently reliable. Currently running some slightly older XO Trails on one bike, and I feel like they're strong enough, but I don't feel like the adjustment does much, and again I prefer the Shimano feel.