Znarf profile

Great article!

Actually I have already sold the 38 and went back to the 36 and then got a 2021 Lyrik Ultimate as a spare, too for when the 36 will go in for warranty once the CSU goes again.

The Lyrik is pretty awesome, it is incredibly simple to setup and very plush. Lets see how it will hold up :)

Yeah, I rode the 38 for three months on the exact same bike, grips, tires, tire pressures, on a Raaw Madonna V2 Large and DT EX1501 wheels, 170mm Fox 38 Factory. Comfortable Syntace Vector Carbon Superlight 20mm risers with build in flex, ESI Extra Chunky soft grips. 

Only thing I changed was the fork itself. For some perspective (we are nerding out here and I enjoy that :) I weigh around 167lbs. I can ride double black trails safely but I am not a super fast rider nor super aggressive, I will ride some stunts but skip the freeride type huge stuff. I regularly ride (when there is no pandemic) the European EWS tracks during holidays, because those are the good trails over here. 

I agree with IslandLife that the 38 works a lot better than either a 36 or a Lyrik suspension wise. You can really feel how smooth it glides up and down with no stiction, also with the air volume in the lowers not influencing progression as much, using full travel with proper sag and pressure is MUCH better. The lubrication channels really work. Also more lower oil helps a lot. Also in really rough bermed, high speed corners and while charging the fork is very precise compared to my 36s. So the 38 moves up and down freely in those situations. 

I ended up with roughly the FOX recommended settings minus one Token @170mm. Setup was easier compared to my 2020 Grip2.

I would think that for stronger or heavier riders the benefits will be huge. It is a great product with lots of really good innovation and a step forward. 

The fore aft and side flex or the absence of it make it feel very direct. Too direct for my bones and joints. I rode the fork a lot on chunky „natural“ european trails, meaning hundreds of years of erosion, loads of roots, rocks, debris. On more groomed, flowy, jumpy, high speed trails the 38 was incredibly smooth and supple. Not on the more awkward slower speed stuff. 

All that said, for how I ride, I often get to a point where I am a bit tired or not attacking 100% because my body feels the past 25 years riding and building trails and I want to continue riding for another 25. I tend to try and ride a bit lighter. 

I would love to try the 2021 Fox 36, I bet the new chassis would be a great compromise. Maybe I will. My 2021 Lyrik Ultimate was half the price though and feels fantastic with the easiest setup. There seems to be a bit of bushing play, but it is very smooth and active. And I went through five 36 CSUs in three seasons and friends report that it seems to be an issue still even on 38s. 

I‘ve personally witnessed two creaky ZEBs though. All on Madonna V2s :)

Nice attention to detail! Nice pictures and nice article!

One insight from a fellow rider with bad wrists to another: I was fed up with my 36 170mm 29“ fork developing creaky CSUs and upgraded to a (Fox) 38. While it worked incredibly well and was very smooth in itˋs travel, it also hurt my wrists really bad, because the increased stiffness brought a lot of side to side bar movements and other vibration into my wrists. I ended up selling the fork and went to a Lyrik Ultimate, which is smoother all around for my body. Same story for a (no bad wrists and a much better rider than me) buddy who went from a Lyrik to a ZEB and then back to a Lyrik after half a season. His wrists started to hurt on wet rough trails and in the cold.

Before you drop the coin on a stiffer fork, maybe test-ride. Most reviews donˋt mention the increased stiffness as less comfortable. For me they meant the difference between being able to ride or NOT ride.

I think the DPX2 can also work great for high-speed-chatter - if the tune is right (and that's very dependent on rider weight and style). 

On my Madonna there ist absolutely no difference - both DPX2 and X2 are very, very good for high-speed stuff/repeated hits etc. But on my Rallon, like your experience, the DPX2 was harsher/less capable for high speed stuff. 

I do feel however that, also like you describe, the X2 ist really fantastic in the last 20 percent of its travel. And I think that is so, because of the fat rubber bottom out bumper it has since 2019. It's like the bottom out bumper on a coil shock and no matter what, it just "deadens" the really harsh impacts really effectively and also maybe has a positive effect on rebound in these last millimeters of the travel. I think that this applies to coil shocks as well. I think that a good part of what makes some people love coil shocks on Enduro bikes so much is the generous rubber bottom out bumper. 

It is just these last 10% of performance where the DPX2 isn't as good. On my Madonna it feels much livelier and snappier and still very capable in the remaining 90%. But I am only 75kg and while I am using some potential of this very capable bike and also have access to nice rough trails, I am not an extremely aggressive or fast and hard on my shock. 

I somewhat agree that if you are on a bike as aggressive as the Process X and hurling around a 2,5kg Fox 38 the DPX2 seems to be more a cost saving than a weight saving matter.

If it is a Performance "Elite" DPX2 it comes with all the bells and whistles of the Factory shock, but without Kashima. In my experience it works absolutely as good as the Factory version. The Performance (without Elite) is simpler, there might be a noticeable difference. X2 versus DPX2 is totally depending on the linkage/frame. I owned three bikes with these shocks (Giant Reign 27.5, Orbea Rallon 29" and currently a RAAW Madonna) and rode them extensively and owned an X2 and a DPX2 shock for each bike (all Factory shocks). I swapped back and forth and have to say that at 75kg I absolutely prefer the DPX2 on my Madonna, because it just works better. It was a toss up on the Rallon with a slight advantage for the X2. And I absolutely didn't like the X2 on the Reign. (that was one of the earlier X2s) 

The frame probably has a bigger impact on function than DPX2 vs X2 - as long as the DPX2 is shimmed right for you...

The Performance level fork is not all that bad. Either ride it and be happy or drop in a GRIP2 cartridge at the first annual service. The Rhythm series forks are crap though. Different CSU with different diameters and threads sometimes, cartridges and air shafts might not fit etc.

It'll be an interesting review - Kona makes interesting bikes, but the spec decisions / price ratio seems mediocre imho. This one isn't all that bad, I'd guess most components are pretty rideable.

Thanks!

Very nice review and also great pictures! I'd love to try a V2 compared to my RAAW Madonna. 

I'd love to know what "lifetime of the frame" means? 

Is the frame intended to last for a certain amount of time? Or what actually defines the lifetime of a frame? My first own TV (bought in 2003) said on the first page of the manual that it had a life cycle of five years. I was SHOCKED when I read that. It was expensive and I bought it with the intent to keep it for at least 20 years. (then gave it to my dad a year later when I moved to university)

Yes, that might actually be a very precise insight regarding casings! I keep going back to Exo style rear tires, because they are fast and that makes my big enduro 29er bike really fun. Grip is excellent still. But the tires wear out fast, tearing side knobs etc and I even had a couple of snakebites this season. 

The last couple of seasons were spent on DHR 2 WT in 2.4 with Nukeproof ARD - zero flats even with park riding.

Yes, that might actually be a very precise insight regarding casings! I keep going back to Exo style rear tires, because they are fast and that makes my big enduro 29er bike really fun. Grip is excellent still. But the tires wear out fast, tearing side knobs etc and I even had a couple of snakebites this season. 

The last couple of seasons were spent on DHR 2 WT in 2.4 with Nukeproof ARD - zero flats even with park riding.

A really good option that did work for me on Shimano XT / Saint / Zees - several sets - are the Magura MDR-C rotors. They are 2.0mm but have additional material near the hub. They actually warp and chirp a lot less compared to Storm HC Magura rotors (which look pretty similar) and are a lot more heat tolerant than thinner Shimano or Sram rotors for me. If you went 223mm for heat distribution, you might like them. 

Also they are really cheap (here in Germany) and come with good quality bolts. I only have first hand experience with 203mm max rotor size though.

"which has a hairline crack on the non-drive-side shock mount on the top-tube. I’m just keeping an eye on the crack for now"

That sounds pretty adventurous =) The forward shock mount looks fairly flimsy even without cracks (in proportion to the beefy rest of the frame). Doesn't have Kona a good warranty policy? 

Apart from that all - I really dig these Kona models (like yours) more than their newer designs (just for looks). Those were (are) some cool bikes somehow.

Posted by: JVP

So not worth the risk of poor performance. Years ago I tried some other bike brand mineral oil in my Shimanos. Might have been Finish Line. Total crap! Felt fine in average conditions, but was HORRIBLE in the cold. Brakes and tires are the two things not worth mucking with to save a few pennies. I now always buy OEM brake fluid, even for my current DOT brakes (Codes). There's better places to be frugal, like literally any other part.

Absolutely agree! Even though you might find some different oil that is cheaper and that works, there is a big enough chance that you put something in your brakes that doesn't work somehow. Pitch in with some riding friends and buy a liter of the Shimano stuff and not risk anything. Even if it is just long term seal degradation or whatever. Even a small bottle lasts for a couple of bleeds, the actual savings can not be big.

I think the silver and pink parts look cool on that build, even though I usually like monocolored bikes.

Seems like a really fun bike!

Posted by: Henry-Chinaski

Posted by: Znarf

You don‘t know how tempting that sounds, Henry! (I currently live in Heidelberg, Germany)

I had the privilege to spend three summers in BC and even got to go to the Chilcotins and the backcountry, I will never forget that! Thanks James!

The people were incredibly nice and welcoming. And the biking was spectacular.

With the pandemic it seems as far away as another galaxy and another life.

And we will have our first baby in September, too.

But someday...

Met you and James at Tyax campground in 2016?? Thought you'd make the connection on Lorna:-) Hopefully, Sterling Lorence is still featured on a wall in your house.

Congrats on your first. The young ones travel well!

-A

OH!!! Now I get it - the new nickname fooled me :) 

and Sterling´s wonderful black and white greasy roots moved into our new living room for sure! It´s the big envy of my photographing bike nerd friend, every time he visits. (not right now, unfortunately)

That will be a very special memory for sure!

Posted by: Ddean

Great write up! Thanks so much for that!

I love so many things about the RAAW. Aluminum. Geo is right. Its not a bike you will see others on. It checks a lot of boxes for me.

Where are you located Znarf? Are you on the Shore? Actually getting one of these frames is one of the hurdles - if you're here and got one, Id be interested in hearing how you did that.

I think that you addressed one of my riding concerns that the bike might be less than ideal on janky (slower) gnarly stuff versus fast flow. Ive seen multiple references to the Madonna being great at cornering - which implies fast flow to me. I have wondered how it does navigating through slower janky stuff on gnarly terrain. My guess is not great? It does seem that it would be a good choice for steep moves.

And pedal strikes. My current previous gen Slayer has a tough time with this on the second steepest setting (which is also the second highest bottom bracket setting).

Logistically the RAAW might be tough to get versus something local like a Chilcotin but it does look like a sweet bike. Ive seen comparisons to Banshee Titan that suggest that the bikes are similar, and thats a local bike but I dont think that I could ride a non-DH Banshee, or I have some metal blocks about doing that anyways. I hate Specialized for sooo many reasons but that Enduro is probably the bike that checks off the riding characteristics Im after; unfortunately it doesnt check off any other box! Thats a rat race bike!

I think the Titan is a really interesting bike and riding something from a local smaller brand can have benefits. So RAAW is relatively local (3hours by car) for me, but a long way from Canada. Ruben (founder) is very good to work with, but a Banshee might be a safer bet with taxes, duties etc.

I do think that Raaw is now shipping to Canada, though. 

Slow speed handling: 

I feel that it handles well both in high speed and in slower janky stuff, because the suspension is active and it is not all that cumbersome. It is definitely NOT only at home on high speed, flowy stuff. We have a lot of gnarly, awkward rocky and rooty stuff in Heidelberg and the great, centered balance helps. Weighing the front or rear is easy. You need 170mm cranks, slim pedals and time your pedaling right. But that seems true for all modern bikes. I specced alloy cranks and they have some scratches, crank boots for carbon would be advised...

Everything on Mt Fromme would feel great, maybe Bookwus might be a bit funky, when encountering some of these tall steps which have to be almost wheelie-dropped. But in general, it will work. And if your 6ft or taller, it will probably work better than a shorter bike.

But on the North Shore, in Squamish or Whistler you will love it. And probably a Titan as well. 

The situations where a traditional RM7 or old school Bullit can be found, but they are really niche :)

You don‘t know how tempting that sounds, Henry! (I currently live in Heidelberg, Germany)

I had the privilege to spend three summers in BC and even got to go to the Chilcotins and the backcountry, I will never forget that! Thanks James!

The people were incredibly nice and welcoming. And the biking was spectacular.

With the pandemic it seems as far away as another galaxy and another life.

And we will have our first baby in September, too.

But someday...

Well with that great of an encouragement, I am more than happy to oblige with a lengthy sort-of-review. (sorry for errors - I am not a native English speaker)

I absolutely love the Madonna! I owned a lot of nice bikes over the last fifteen years, but the Madonna is the best one so far.

The standout feature is the perfectly balanced geometry (front and rear centre).

At 6ft with 35.5“ inseam and apish arms I struggled with bike fit and finding the sweet spot with body position. Lots of tinkering with bar height, suspension setup,

you know the drill. Once I hopped on the Madonna, it just felt perfect and I have stopped wondering if there was a way to change this or that.

The Madonna is a bit different (and the Geometron fans will agree) in regards of chainstay length, stack height, seat angle. It is longer in the rear and has size specific chainstays, it has a tall stack height and a steep (although not TOO steep) actual seattube angle. It feels different than old-school bikes.

Cornering on this bike is next level. It is incredibly balanced/neutral and the sweet spot is bigger than on long bikes with short rear ends or short bikes.

You have to lean the bike instead of steering with the handlebars. Once I adjusted to that, things got better and better.

I have been riding since the late 90s and taking skill clinics now and then and while I am not a bad rider, I am not one of the natural really fast riders who are comfortable, confident and ripping any time on any bike and in any conditions. Little things sometimes throw off my confidence and flow to some extent. I do not rip on a sub par bike, my joints start acting up and I start to find excuses ;-)

I am fit climbing though.

The Madonna just absolutely boosts my confidence. It climbs great and is super comfortable, even though it is not light, but no part of my body cramps or hurts, even on long rides, NO back pain. I try features and jumps I never attempted before and have more fun at 37 on a bike than at 17. I started to learn new tricks and I attribute that to the fact, that the bike just fits like a glove and I feel great on it because of that.

For sure not only the geometry, but also the suspension helps with the confidence. It works fantastic. It is very sensitive so there is a little movement when your body weight moves. But it is also really offering great traction. There is good support through the stroke and ramp up is just right. If you are heavy, they offer a different rocker with lower ratio. For my 76kg the stock link is perfect. Headtube angle is perfect. I’ve tried different shocks (X2 Float, Super Deluxe Coil) but the DPX2 is my pick. It just works fantastic and the three modes help with climbing and traverses on flatter terrain.

The bike works on flowy and flat trails, but it is made for gnarly stuff. I got a slightly used 150/140 (Orbea Occam Carbon, nice and light build) 29er trail bike as a backup a couple of weeks ago, but honestly after the first couple of rides, I do not see myself riding it much. I will just grab the Madonna. It is not as snappy, but the difference in climbing efficiency is much smaller than I anticipated and I enjoy the long travel much more for the rest of the ride.

It is like everything is covered in fat powder like snow, the travel just takes the edge off and makes me feel like a better rider :)

Apart from all that, there is another aspect which I actually enjoy almost as much as the exceptional feel on the trail:

It is overbuilt and nothin is flimsy. It feels like it is built to take all the stuff a mountain bike should. Not just while riding but also loading it on/in a car, storing it in the basement, crashing it, just wiping all that mud or dust off and not babying it. There is a matte clear powder coat over the brushed finish, which looks perfect after two seasons. All frame areas (heel rub etc., cable rub, chain slap) are prepared and made with real world conditions in mind - straight from the factory. You don’t need to figure out frame protection and all that after your first rides. 

All bearings are the same 25mm size, except at the main pivot, which are 52mm like in a headset. The shock is running on four 25mm bearings. That is around 500g of bearings alone, but going into the third season with lots of riding in all conditions, all year long (even in three weeks of snow past winter) the bearings are absolutely fine. I swapped two at the upper shock mount and one in the drive side Horst link last year, more or less in order to test my bearing press. They were a bit rougher, but still worked. That was like playing Lego. The bearings have additional sealed caps over them and after a full season there was NO dirt under these caps. Just fresh, white grease. I haven’t had that on any bike before. They are also designed without having to damage the frame while replacing, no special tools required. Which surprisingly isn’t the way with a lot of expensive bike frames in my experience. A punch and a press in ONE size is all you need. Even just soft hammering them in could work. (The big ones work with a headset press)

Servicing all the hardware is incredibly easy and there is no problem with tolerances, pressing steel bearings in carbon parts etc. They also offer every part as replacement directly in their web-shop. Full external cable routing, done a tidy way. I love it when wrenching and don’t mind it while riding.

Nothing is perfect, so what is not to like?

Honestly not much, if you accept that everything in life is a compromise ;-)

-It is heavy, even with a bling build. A little below 16kg with proper tires. Frame weight size Large with DPX2 shock and all hardware (axles, seat clamp etc.) is 4,5kg so around 600g more than a Santa Cruz Megatower CC of the same size

-It is not cheap

-It needs a beefy rear tire, which makes it even heavier (I rarely flat tires since going tubeless more than ten years ago, but I destroyed five EXO tires even WITH inserts and am now on DD and Tannus tubeless)

-It needs proper terrain and trails (while it is fun enough on the occasional mellow trail, if you only ride blue stuff, get something else)

-Cable routing for the brake is tidy but TIGHT around the BB with DUB bb-shells, with Shimano BB no issues

-rear end might be almost too stiff side to side for my 76kg (but is solved with my „flexy“ wheels)

-needs powerful brakes

Build kit:

Braking: Trickstuff Direttissima brakes (fantastic, little pad clearance, bit of rub sometimes, but high leverage, incredible modulation, control and longevity - my favorite part of the bike) with Magura MDR-C-E-bike-budget rotors (great! Cheap and lots of material, no chirping)

Drivetrain: XX1 11spd cassette and chain, 28t steel chainring, XT derailleur and SRAM 11spd shifter (works great with dedicated shifter clamps, direct mount adapters on the Direttissima are not ergonomic)

Suspension: Now a 180mm Lyrik Ultimate, works great, easy to set up and DPX2 - also works great, also easy to set up. Bike originally came with Fox 36, which I killed 4 CSUs, but Fox was good with warranty, I got tired of that any way.

Seatpost: Vecnum Nivo 212mm - works flawless without a service since my first ride, 200g less than a One-Up V2 210mm post. Really good!

Wheels: PI-Rope, Vectran (textile spokes), Newmen hubs and rims. Really nice, no issues at all 1550g

Tires: DHF WT Maxxterra EXO or Conti der Baron 2.4 Protection on the front / DHR2 2.3 / Dissector 2.4 or something else on the rear, still struggling to find the perfect rear tire…

Cockpit: Syntace 20mm rise carbon bars with 31,8mm high-flex design, 40mm Syntace stem (my go to combination, works and lasts perfectly)

Saddle: SQLab 611 seat - fits my bum perfectly

Headset: Acros - comes with the frame, lasts perfectly, didn’t have to touch it once

Grips: ESI FIT XC (work for me)

Tubeless Valves: e13 - expensive, but don’t clog up all the time

Edit: Wow, this got TOO long.

yes, one spare spoke. I don't know how tricky fitting one is, because they need to be stretched a bit. PI-Rope offer a quick and easy direct customer support though. Haven't needed it yet, but they are very quick and friendly with emails!

I can absolutely recommend them so far. 

I have a full season on them with lots of rough trails, rocks, jumps, mud, dust, sun, rain, ice and even salt (I commute to the trails and the city puts LOADS of salt on the bike paths etc.). 

I haven't had to true them, care for them in any way. I weigh 76kg and don't regularly kill wheels, but a full season without any trueing or maintenance would be impressive for any regular wheelset on a 29er 170mm bike. If they last two seasons, they last longer than most of my alloy wheel sets with steel spokes. 

BUT:

The PI-Rope weigh only 1550g in 29" with 30mm iw. (verified weight on my kitchen scale) 

That is a noticeable difference to the 1800g of my DT EX1501 30mm wheels. You can ride DD tires and it feels roughly the same as EXO, weight and acceleration wise. (rims are the same weight, spokes are a lot lighter compared to steel, some of it is rotating mass, without having to resort to less beefy rims)

Their best trait for me however is their ability to smooth out vibration and flex a little. They still feel precise enough to me, but they really have a little bit of give and wiggle and noticeably increase comfort and grip on rooty, rocky and rough trails, especially on the very (too) stiff rear end of my Madonna. They take a little bit of sting out of square edged hits and I even find that I don't pinch flat tires as much (or have less KLOOONNG sounds on the front wheel without an insert, when I land on a root). 

I don´t notice any negative effects on flat-out bermed trails, but I am neither super heavy nor do I like or require the stiffest bike / setup. I bet there are riders who prefer super precise / stiff wheels. 

They interface with tires every bit as good as a regular Newmen rim with 30mm inner width (most rims work great nowadays). 

One thing to pay attention - they come with a little bottle with fluid which is to be applied occasionally to the spokes for UV-protection. (which I'll do in the next days)

So far I haven't damaged a spoke. 

They are more expensive than a really good regular alloy wheel set, but much less expensive than high-end carbon wheels. 

But in my experience they offer a real benefit over carbon (enduro) wheels, because they are lighter than most AND more comfortable. 

I am curious how they will hold up over the course of a couple of years. My fear of the spokes magically disintegrating at the same time is almost non-existent now =)