Znarf profile

Very cool review - I really love that on nsmb.com there seems to be a place, appreciation and editorial willingness to allow in-depth, nerdy (good), content with context and depth! Many other websites or magazines (which I also enjoy somewhat) only seem to concentrate on brief content which reduces products to disposable items only current for a blink. 

I enjoy that there are articles which are long enough, that I have to file them away in my reading list and then find an occasion a bit later where I find the time to actually read through it. Also the needed tinkering and "ripening" of a bike (and actually sinking hours in wrenching, RIDING, WRITING and photography) show in a lot of posts. 

REALLY COOL!

Great article!

Actually I have already sold the 38 and went back to the 36 and then got a 2021 Lyrik Ultimate as a spare, too for when the 36 will go in for warranty once the CSU goes again.

The Lyrik is pretty awesome, it is incredibly simple to setup and very plush. Lets see how it will hold up :)

Yeah, I rode the 38 for three months on the exact same bike, grips, tires, tire pressures, on a Raaw Madonna V2 Large and DT EX1501 wheels, 170mm Fox 38 Factory. Comfortable Syntace Vector Carbon Superlight 20mm risers with build in flex, ESI Extra Chunky soft grips. 

Only thing I changed was the fork itself. For some perspective (we are nerding out here and I enjoy that :) I weigh around 167lbs. I can ride double black trails safely but I am not a super fast rider nor super aggressive, I will ride some stunts but skip the freeride type huge stuff. I regularly ride (when there is no pandemic) the European EWS tracks during holidays, because those are the good trails over here. 

I agree with IslandLife that the 38 works a lot better than either a 36 or a Lyrik suspension wise. You can really feel how smooth it glides up and down with no stiction, also with the air volume in the lowers not influencing progression as much, using full travel with proper sag and pressure is MUCH better. The lubrication channels really work. Also more lower oil helps a lot. Also in really rough bermed, high speed corners and while charging the fork is very precise compared to my 36s. So the 38 moves up and down freely in those situations. 

I ended up with roughly the FOX recommended settings minus one Token @170mm. Setup was easier compared to my 2020 Grip2.

I would think that for stronger or heavier riders the benefits will be huge. It is a great product with lots of really good innovation and a step forward. 

The fore aft and side flex or the absence of it make it feel very direct. Too direct for my bones and joints. I rode the fork a lot on chunky „natural“ european trails, meaning hundreds of years of erosion, loads of roots, rocks, debris. On more groomed, flowy, jumpy, high speed trails the 38 was incredibly smooth and supple. Not on the more awkward slower speed stuff. 

All that said, for how I ride, I often get to a point where I am a bit tired or not attacking 100% because my body feels the past 25 years riding and building trails and I want to continue riding for another 25. I tend to try and ride a bit lighter. 

I would love to try the 2021 Fox 36, I bet the new chassis would be a great compromise. Maybe I will. My 2021 Lyrik Ultimate was half the price though and feels fantastic with the easiest setup. There seems to be a bit of bushing play, but it is very smooth and active. And I went through five 36 CSUs in three seasons and friends report that it seems to be an issue still even on 38s. 

I‘ve personally witnessed two creaky ZEBs though. All on Madonna V2s :)

Nice attention to detail! Nice pictures and nice article!

One insight from a fellow rider with bad wrists to another: I was fed up with my 36 170mm 29“ fork developing creaky CSUs and upgraded to a (Fox) 38. While it worked incredibly well and was very smooth in itˋs travel, it also hurt my wrists really bad, because the increased stiffness brought a lot of side to side bar movements and other vibration into my wrists. I ended up selling the fork and went to a Lyrik Ultimate, which is smoother all around for my body. Same story for a (no bad wrists and a much better rider than me) buddy who went from a Lyrik to a ZEB and then back to a Lyrik after half a season. His wrists started to hurt on wet rough trails and in the cold.

Before you drop the coin on a stiffer fork, maybe test-ride. Most reviews donˋt mention the increased stiffness as less comfortable. For me they meant the difference between being able to ride or NOT ride.

I think the DPX2 can also work great for high-speed-chatter - if the tune is right (and that's very dependent on rider weight and style). 

On my Madonna there ist absolutely no difference - both DPX2 and X2 are very, very good for high-speed stuff/repeated hits etc. But on my Rallon, like your experience, the DPX2 was harsher/less capable for high speed stuff. 

I do feel however that, also like you describe, the X2 ist really fantastic in the last 20 percent of its travel. And I think that is so, because of the fat rubber bottom out bumper it has since 2019. It's like the bottom out bumper on a coil shock and no matter what, it just "deadens" the really harsh impacts really effectively and also maybe has a positive effect on rebound in these last millimeters of the travel. I think that this applies to coil shocks as well. I think that a good part of what makes some people love coil shocks on Enduro bikes so much is the generous rubber bottom out bumper. 

It is just these last 10% of performance where the DPX2 isn't as good. On my Madonna it feels much livelier and snappier and still very capable in the remaining 90%. But I am only 75kg and while I am using some potential of this very capable bike and also have access to nice rough trails, I am not an extremely aggressive or fast and hard on my shock. 

I somewhat agree that if you are on a bike as aggressive as the Process X and hurling around a 2,5kg Fox 38 the DPX2 seems to be more a cost saving than a weight saving matter.

If it is a Performance "Elite" DPX2 it comes with all the bells and whistles of the Factory shock, but without Kashima. In my experience it works absolutely as good as the Factory version. The Performance (without Elite) is simpler, there might be a noticeable difference. X2 versus DPX2 is totally depending on the linkage/frame. I owned three bikes with these shocks (Giant Reign 27.5, Orbea Rallon 29" and currently a RAAW Madonna) and rode them extensively and owned an X2 and a DPX2 shock for each bike (all Factory shocks). I swapped back and forth and have to say that at 75kg I absolutely prefer the DPX2 on my Madonna, because it just works better. It was a toss up on the Rallon with a slight advantage for the X2. And I absolutely didn't like the X2 on the Reign. (that was one of the earlier X2s) 

The frame probably has a bigger impact on function than DPX2 vs X2 - as long as the DPX2 is shimmed right for you...

The Performance level fork is not all that bad. Either ride it and be happy or drop in a GRIP2 cartridge at the first annual service. The Rhythm series forks are crap though. Different CSU with different diameters and threads sometimes, cartridges and air shafts might not fit etc.

It'll be an interesting review - Kona makes interesting bikes, but the spec decisions / price ratio seems mediocre imho. This one isn't all that bad, I'd guess most components are pretty rideable.

Thanks!

Very nice review and also great pictures! I'd love to try a V2 compared to my RAAW Madonna. 

I'd love to know what "lifetime of the frame" means? 

Is the frame intended to last for a certain amount of time? Or what actually defines the lifetime of a frame? My first own TV (bought in 2003) said on the first page of the manual that it had a life cycle of five years. I was SHOCKED when I read that. It was expensive and I bought it with the intent to keep it for at least 20 years. (then gave it to my dad a year later when I moved to university)

Yes, that might actually be a very precise insight regarding casings! I keep going back to Exo style rear tires, because they are fast and that makes my big enduro 29er bike really fun. Grip is excellent still. But the tires wear out fast, tearing side knobs etc and I even had a couple of snakebites this season. 

The last couple of seasons were spent on DHR 2 WT in 2.4 with Nukeproof ARD - zero flats even with park riding.

One other idea:

Experiment with bar height. When I went to a shorter travel 29er with longish reach and longish chainstays, but steeper head angle compared to my Madonna with a 180mm fork, I had the feeling that my fork dived and the front end felt strange. I fiddled with spacers and even fork travel and compression setup etc. and a firmer fork worked better in this respect, but I find it beneficient to use more of the travel on my shorter travel rig regularly, compared to my Madonna ( I don‘t do stunts which require 180mm on every ride). I do ride stuff which kind of warrants 130/140mm on basically every ride (that‘s in relation to what my body can take long-term, not what a pro could do with my bikes…)

But what actually solved this divey, strange feeling for me, even though I didn‘t expect it at all, was a higher riser bar and a more linear fork setup with enough suppleness.

My stem is set up with plenty (3cm) of spacers underneath (Orbea Occam, size Large, short head tube) and a +35mm riser bar.

When I look at the bike I would absolutely guess that the bars are too high. Especially in comparison to my previous bikes. (But kind of in line with what works on my Madonna)

Actually +1cm of bar rise changed the bike for me from „I kind of regret buying it“ to „I am incredibly excited to ride it and can‘t pick between the Madonna (which I love) and the shorter travel bike“. I tended to run very firm forks and low bars. Which made me never use all the travel, but worked. But it is kind of pointless to lug all that travel around. (But some security margin is nice…)

Wow, very detailed and interesting writeups! Thanks!

Posted by: Kenny

Pulled the trigger on a size L Jibb with coil. Should be interesting.

Report back after a couple of rides, please! I am very curious for what kind of tires you'll settle on this sort of bike for shore riding!

Glad to hear that! And cool that you already took it to all kinds of great riding areas!

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: Znarf

How about a video of my 2021 bike?

RAAW MADONNA V2 Long-Term Review with V2.2 Peek MTB.......

I made this little Video Review to practice my English and camera skills. With travel restrictions I don’t have many opportunities to speak English :-/

I wrote Pete and Cam if it’s okay to post a couple of days ago, but haven’t heard back. So I’ll just try :)

There was some interest for my Madonna in this thread a couple of pages back. So why not…

Haha excellent, that put the rest of our "reviews" to shame.  🍻

And nice manual!

Thanks! Glad you liked it!

How about a video of my 2021 bike?

RAAW MADONNA V2 Long-Term Review with V2.2 Peek MTB

https://youtu.be/DakbMIy_12M

I made this little Video Review to practice my English and camera skills. With travel restrictions I don’t have many opportunities to speak English :-/

I wrote Pete and Cam if it’s okay to post a couple of days ago, but haven’t heard back. So I’ll just try :)

There was some interest for my Madonna in this thread a couple of pages back. So why not…

Posted by: xy9ine

yer. lots of tech-gnar jank out there still; just sees relatively little traffic. many sanctioned trails that i *never* see people on. not complaining, of course.

That’s great to hear, I love all those rocks and fallen trees etc.

The forest in BC is so breathtakingly beautiful. An incredible attraction in itself, even without trails :)

Posted by: RAHrider

Posted by: Znarf

These riders must have dialed bike handling to the extent that stability and not going over the bars isn't a worry for them. And also a lot of it might have to do with being used to performing on too small bikes and not changing a winning combination.

Is the bike "too small" if they are a) winning on it and b) prefer it?

Moir's bike fits exactly as all mine do me. I wonder if the pendulum will swing back a little bit? The strive has geo numbers from 2 or 3 years ago and he is going down a size. I think this says something about how much you lose by going with such long bikes as people are.

Perhaps the take home is that wheelbase does not equal speed for a pro rider. Fast riders can go fast on any wheelbase, but they lose the ability to maneuver the bike when it gets too long?

That's good rhetoric on your part! =)

I love nsmb.com for the great discussions (no sarcasm!)

What I should have said/what I meant - most of the taller top pro riders who ride comparatively "small" bikes seem to have started riding on some "too small" bike of some sort, in the past. When they like their bike OR even win on it, it is a good fit for them, apparently. Athletes can be peculiar imho, because they can compensate insane stuff, when they feel there's a specific advantage etc. They MAKE things work. And that's a great talent and probably what makes them ride WORLDS better than me =)

Still: The bikes which were available before the geometry "revolution" around (2014/2015), were really (too) small for most people 6ft+.

And compared to these bikes even the "smaller" 29" Strive has a relatively modern geo. For illustration: my 2014 Specialized Enduro size LARGE - I am 6ft. Or any video of a DH World Cup pre 2015 and look at Peaty, Minaar, Ratboy etc. https://nsmb.com/photos/view/20341/

I absolutely agree with you, that there is a TOO big. And sizing is a fine line, highly dependent on anatomy, fitness and preference! The POLE EWS rider, even though he is fast, looks like an acrobat of some sort, maneuvering a longboard through the twisty tracks. I think that's not because of his riding style - he's super competent. But because his bike is HUGE.

I do think (but that might be cognitive bias) that most tallish "new-school" top pro-riders don't size down as much. But riding the smallest bike you can comfortably get away with probably still has it's benefits.

How tall are you and what are you riding?

Yeah, I think so! At least for people of average height. 

Posted by: velocipedestrian

Posted by: RAHrider

Speaking of new FS bikes. What's the deal with many of the EWS riders riding one size smaller? The winner of the latest EWS is 190cm and rides a size large with a 460mm reach. He says that on the gnarly courses, the smaller bike is better. Aren't we all riding "the gnarly trails" all the time here?

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-a-closer-look-at-jack-moirs-canyon-strive-race-bike.html

Those Germans at Enduro covered this by testing a bunch of racers bikes vs recommended sizes of the same frames. 

Seemed to come down to the longer bike being more stable + forgiving, vs shorter being easier to move around. So far so obvious, but for us mortals on tough terrain longer is better. For pros with the skills and fitness, mobility can mean better line choice and seconds saved etc... Are we hitting peak reach?

Posted by: RAHrider

Speaking of new FS bikes. What's the deal with many of the EWS riders riding one size smaller? The winner of the latest EWS is 190cm and rides a size large with a 460mm reach. He says that on the gnarly courses, the smaller bike is better. Aren't we all riding "the gnarly trails" all the time here?

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-a-closer-look-at-jack-moirs-canyon-strive-race-bike.html

In my experience (as a European rider, who got to spent three extended vacations in BC) the shore trails (most of the stuff I rode on Cypress, Fromme and Seymour, in Squamish and Whistler) is janky and gnarly, the rock stuff very much so, some of it is very steep and well above what I want or can comfortably ride (or risk). But to some extent most of these trails are "made" with some sort of two-wheeled vehicle in mind, going up or down. So, almost no matter how harsh and janky they get, the have some sort of flow for really good riders. Also the trails don't suffer from hundreds of years of erosion.

Over here in Europe more than half (personal estimation from the two handfuls of EWS circuits I've ridden recreationally across Europe, NOT RACING) the EWS tracks are either mostly based on farming, walking, donkey transport, smuggling (hiking) trails or paths, which are in many sections hundreds, sometimes thousands of years old. They can be incredibly rocky and janky, downright scary. Especially in the France there are sometimes nightmarish sections, made almost unridable in wet or not ideal conditions. (look at the crashes from the Olargues EWS races, even for top ten riders it was only a 70/30 hit rate) Or you have longer parts of stages which are just racing tape, sticks and an undefined grassy slope of a mountain or slalom on gravel roads for hundreds of meters. Sometimes the tracks are just reclaimed, long unused trails. We get more and more purpose built trails and that is great.

The "classic" European "trails" are often not as much fun to ride and require very different riding style and technique, some are scenic however. But if you see the EWS pros flick their bikes with incredible speed and finesse through switchbacks, sometimes hopping, muscling or jack-rabbit-jumping in (to me) unimaginable ways, the smaller frames might make sense for losing as little time as possible. Often they ride EITHER on the front OR the rear wheel in these sections or jump from line to line...

These riders must have dialed bike handling to the extent that stability and not going over the bars isn't a worry for them. And also a lot of it might have to do with being used to performing on too small bikes and not changing a winning combination.

I absolutely DON`T want to say that the BC trails are easier. I want to express that they are more fun and offer more flow, because they are actual biking trails and therefore there aren't as many situations where a longer bike (and not in a racing situation) would cost seconds. Even if it is much more fun, safe and more enjoyable to ride for moderate to great riders, when they are not racing.