New posts

Dangers of trees- Mark Weir knows

Feb. 20, 2014, 3:30 p.m.
Posts: 725
Joined: Aug. 14, 2003

i'm not certified in any way for killing trees, but i've been doing it for 20 yrs and feel pretty comfortable. haven't hurt myself or anyone else yet, and i've been in some reasonably complex situations.

i'm sure there's a lot of value in taking a formal course, but there's a lot to be said for experience. there are many people i know who use a saw regularly who do it safely and don't get hurt. in my opinion, you're over-stating the importance of formal training here.

there would be NO trails if only "certified" fallers built trails. i'm sorry your friend was killed, that's horrible, but its not like we're dropping like flies around here.

Um yeah, the only intent here was to get people thinking about the hazards of the activity, and ENCOURAGE interest in training. I'm not sure exactly how I "over-stated" the value of formal training in any way. There is no substitute for proper training, just as there is no substitute for experience. To be a good saw handler, IMHO, you need both.

I NEVER suggested for one second that trail building be stopped until there are teams of certified fallers ready to go. I made it pretty clear when I was giving my strictest workplace interpretation, and acknowledged that the most stringent technical requirements do not exactly meet the needs of reality in the woods. I think I made it clear, that seeking out experience by working with someone is a good way to proceed. Learning by trial and error is not an option. Some people understood the intent of the thread, and recognize the inherent value of expanding their skill set.

It's the casual "experience matters" attitude that gets people killed. Having dealt with complex situations in the past without getting hurt DOES NOTHING to reduce your chances of future injury. If anything, it increases the likelihood that in a moment of over-confidence, you'll drop a log on your own head (which NO ONE wants to see).

I had a target audience for this thread. First, are new or less experienced trail builders. I hope that some of them recognize the hazards of saw work, and pause before trying to learn on the fly, and maybe seek out a pro to learn from (i.e. experience), maybe even seek out some formal training. Second, are the experienced builders who may not have a fully rounded knowledge base for cutting trees.QUite a few chimed in, and gave some good input. Perhaps, a few of them will see some value here, and seek out some training, or network with people they know that are trained fallers. That can ONLY help them, and that CANNOT be overstated. Like I already indicate, building and cutting is going to happen. But people can only better themselves and reduce their chance of injury by expanding their skill set.

The third target are experienced builders that already (think they) know everything, but actually do not. Can't really reach them, don't expect to change their minds. If one thinks that "doing okay so far" is reason enough to say phooey to formal training, I'll just cross my fingers for them. I knew inevitably that this thread would stroke a few egos the wrong way, and have tried hard to keep it respectable while still emphasizing the serious potential of the danger here. Ultimately, I don't really care if a few take it the wrong way or see it fit to trumpet their own experience over training. I work in the industry, and study what kills people, and I'm pretty confident in my assertions.

The reality is that succeeding with bad habits is one of the strongest predictors of future calamity. Not being able to, or refusing to, recognize one's own shortcomings invites disaster. (Okay I said the same thing twice, but I love to overstate things). But really, this is an accepted principle of risk management.

I have known two people that died cutting trees (not even production falling), and two more that have been seriously injured and permanently scarred. Both of the fatalities occurred in the lower mainland. I will continue to "overstate" the importance of training the dangers of knocking down trees as long as I can.

I'll make it really clear here. I love what trail builders are doing, and I do not want to create obstacles for anyone. My intent here is not to trumpet my expertise even if I have to do so a bit to validate my points. In fact, It would be great if guys like SILK take the lead in these discussions, and network with other builders to help them learn. I really just want to stimulate some thoughtful dialogue on awareness of the hazards, and promote discussion of ways to better skill sets and reduce the chance of losing anyone.

Feb. 20, 2014, 5:02 p.m.
Posts: 17
Joined: Aug. 6, 2004

Good post CK.

Wanting to keep everyone safe is always a hard thing to do when working with a bunch of old grumpy trail builders :)

If you look back at a few of our threads most guys seem to know whats up and have most of the proper PPE when using a saw on the ground.

Most of the trails around here do not require crazy hazard removals and like Sven said no one here is doing any falling of live tree's in the forest for trail building.

And I have offered my services up many times before to a number of builders for Fromme and Seymour for the larger hazards. We always had a blast and did a bang up job of taking down hazards with no issues.

I continue to help when it is asked of me free of charge for all trail builders / trails on the North Shore.

Feb. 20, 2014, 8:27 p.m.
Posts: 7967
Joined: March 8, 2006

Danger trees? What danger trees.

Feb. 20, 2014, 8:30 p.m.
Posts: 7967
Joined: March 8, 2006

Danger trees in Hawaii..

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/v/t34/912264_112103155658621_1006089738_n.jpg?oh=813574e2577ae66e36173db34d1522a9[HTML_REMOVED]oe=5308C128[HTML_REMOVED]gda=1393089385_cfc46298afdc40f19a6fad2c5acc7fc4

No longer Dangerous

Feb. 20, 2014, 9:25 p.m.
Posts: 17
Joined: Aug. 6, 2004

Danger trees? What danger trees.

Jesus!

Is that thing even able to pick it up or just cut and push over?

No wonder no one is getting a fallers ticket anymore with monsters like that
doing the work of 20 men.

Feb. 20, 2014, 9:58 p.m.
Posts: 7967
Joined: March 8, 2006

http://youtu.be/875ZjSMWJ2Q

Feb. 21, 2014, 1:30 p.m.
Posts: 8256
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

Wanting to keep everyone safe is always a hard thing to do when working with a bunch of old grumpy trail builders :)

especially on the shore where just riding our bikes for fun is a lethal risk that we readily accept

WTB Frequency i23 rim, 650b NEW - $40

Feb. 21, 2014, 8:51 p.m.
Posts: 1111
Joined: Jan. 9, 2007

especially on the shore where just riding our bikes for fun is a lethal risk that we readily accept

We should take courses for mountain biking for sure.

diggin

Feb. 21, 2014, 9:10 p.m.
Posts: 17771
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Feb. 24, 2014, 3:40 p.m.
Posts: 3801
Joined: April 13, 2003

]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=875ZjSMWJ2Q

Probably see one at Burke soon. I wander if Monica will show up to save the frogs!

:canada:

Feb. 24, 2014, 4:14 p.m.
Posts: 17771
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

I'm curious abuot the weight of those Feller/Munchers.

Looks like the trees they can topple would easily flip the machine if say the hydraulics locked out or a pivot siezed for what ever reason.

Could they hold a big tree (say maximum diameter for the blade/muncher) up horizontal that was just cut?

March 2, 2014, 12:50 p.m.
Posts: 7967
Joined: March 8, 2006

I'm curious abuot the weight of those Feller/Munchers.

Looks like the trees they can topple would easily flip the machine if say the hydraulics locked out or a pivot siezed for what ever reason.

Could they hold a big tree (say maximum diameter for the blade/muncher) up horizontal that was just cut?

Absolutely. That tree cuts a 24" depth, and 52" throat. It all depends on the size/weight of the tree. But alot of times the tree is cut, picked up spun around 180 and tossed down the hill. Larger and more importantly heavy trees which can't be grabbed, are pushed over.

New one is seeexxxxxxxxxy.

Forum jump: