cerealkilla_ profile

Need a few more valve pictures please

Yup, plus one on the Counterpunch. I really took the time to set up my controls perfectly, and haven't looked back. No more hand wandering on the bar searching for the right spot, just slide the pinky up against the nubbin.  The really good part has been the grip itself. I had struggled to find one I liked, but this one seems to have rubber in all the right places. That tubilito is appealing as a spare to back up my tubless. Instantly saves 150gms off my cheap crappy tube.  That's about 3g per $1. Way cheaper than adding carbon bits for those that count.

Epi pens usually have expiry printed on them. Their lifespan can be reduced through exposure to extreme temps, particularly heat. That being said, there is little risk of harm from using an outdated epi, just risk of reduced effectiveness.  With benadryl, liquid caps work a bit faster, but degrade faster. Hard tabs can remain close to full potency well after expiry. 

One trick for avoiding wasps (you likely know)...second rider gets stung. Another reason to be first in the singletrack. Thankfully, this year doesn't seem too bad for wasps, and this heavy rain will likely put a damper on their vigor. Have a great race!

Fender!!! I did the BCBR about ten years ago during a REALLY wet year. It was pretty much a mud-fest for the first four days. I think I was pretty much the only person with a decent front fender. It  made life more tolerable day-to-day, and shortened my clean-up time at the end of each stage. I ditched it when things turned sunny in Gibsons.

You mention having an epi-pen in the rear bag. Can you comment a bit more about riding with one of these in tow? Have you had to use it on the trail ever? Had any break? How often do you replace?    I am assuming this is for wasp stings. I often carry benadryl tabs (solid, not liquid tabs). I have found they can be important to OTHER people and not just me in case I come along a person in trouble.

I thought that too at first glance. However, once you put your hand on the bars and ride a bit, it becomes clear that snagging is not an issue. The nubs are actually a rounded surface pointed slightly inboard at the end, and they basically sit flush against your pinky rather than sticking out. Only way to snag is if you take your hand off the bar, at which point you're probably screwed anyway - or by striking farther inboard - again, if that happens you're likely in trouble already. Think of it as pinky-armor rather than a bar extension. This is why control set -up is key, as you establish a more specific position for the hand, rather than having extra grip-length to wander upon. I've now put them to the test numerous times and can say the only snag issues I encountered were catching loopy brake-cable on my other bikes as I hang them on the rack.

Always dreamed of having a Brodie Catalyst. I finally found one.

https://nsmb.com/photos/view/510/

Darn you both for robbing us of cheap entertainment by taking this the civil adult route. Great conversation to follow. Thank you both.

Counterpunches! Definitely among the best new products I've seen lately. Found it really important to get the control set up just just right, but once dialed in, there is the added benefit of no wandering on the grip. My hand goes where it belongs and then it stays there. 

No pockets on the jersey? Did you carry a pack in the BCBR or just keep everything strapped to the bike?

Thanks for this article Andrew

Phil can climb pretty well already ....this bike just makes it ridiculous.

I can reel it in. I appreciate you may be speaking to the general, but when you quote me in your post, it seems kind of specific.

I totally agree, the baseless generalized ebike shaming is idiotic, and will do absolutely nothing to make things better for either group of riders. My point was explicitly clear that there are de-gens in every group of riders, and we need more leadership from within the ebike circles to address the things (again among a small group) that are problematic. But this doesn't mean that any critique or articulation of a problem with ebikes is "ebike bashing". Directional riding, wet weather riding, passing uphill. Not bashing anyone or any group. Just saying these are issues that merit discussion....if happy integration is the goal.

I have no more patience for de-gens on mountain bikes that litter, strip their riding clothes in front of trailside residents, short-cut switchbacks, fail to slow down around horses, or other crap behaviors.  Not bashing mountain bikers when I call these things out. Just addressing crap behavior that ruins it for everyone.

I can reel it in. I appreciate you may be speaking to the general, but when you quote me in your post, it seems kind of specific. 

I totally agree, the baseless generalized ebike shaming is idiotic, and will do absolutely nothing to make things better for either group of riders.

I can reel it in. I appreciate you may be speaking to the general, but when you quote me in your post, it seems kind of specific. 

I totally agree, the baseless generalized ebike shaming is idiotic, and will do absolutely nothing to make things better for either group of riders.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: cerealkilla_

• Hard to "dislike" the increase of riders. It's not a behavior - it's a function of our society. I am far more concerned how any segment of that growing population may behave, particularly in terms of wrecking things for everyone else.
• Etiquette - there is lots of peer pressure and club-based education focused on this. Trailforks has helped with their wet-weather friendly trails filter. However, there has been a total and absolute black hole of conversation in terms of e-bike specific etiquette. The loudest voices promoting ebikes have had ZERO to offer in terms of how to manage this great new technology appropriately. The sellers and pushers have left it to everyone else to make the common sense suggestions such as polite heads up when passing uphill in boost mode. While ebike fans have made loud demands to be treated like mountain bikes, a group of them have simultaneously refused to actually behave like mountain bikes as they ride UP popular downhill routes. Pretty simple that if you want to be treated as a mountain bike, you should follow the established traffic patterns set by existing riders.  But nope! Still have issues with those that think they can re-arrange the flow, and throttle up the blue trails and easy blacks. Etiquette is cancelled out by entitlement among a small group. Still, the vast majority of people riding ebikes conduct themselves as politely as most other riders. There will always be a small part of every group that makes the rest look bad. Might just be up to the rest of us to shame the d-bags to keep their number in check.
• Can't imagine limiting ebikes to any specific trails. That would take Section 56 rules, which Ministry is reluctant to make, and is almost certainly unlikely to make for ebikes. Probably more important to keep them riding with the flow and properly integrated with other traffic, than trying to separate them.

• An increase of riders is a behaviour - it's people choosing to participate in an activity. An increase of riders adds to trail erosion. I've brought this issue up before and it's strange that in the context of ebikes people see no problem with the ever increasing numbers of riders on the trails but yet on a sunny day on the weekend people will definitely make a point of talking about how busy the trails were, hard to find parking, etc. From a trail erosion standpoint the increase in riders over the past 10yrs has been detrimental to the overall health of the trail network, so I find that hard to like.
• Etiquette is a huge thing, and the best way to improve that is to be welcoming and get people involved. Constantly beating a drum that ebikers are some evil spawn is not going to do that. Negatively stereotyping a group is not going to motivate them to get involved with trail orgs and learning about proper trail etiquette.
• If it's more important to keep ebikers riding with the flow and porperly integrated with other traffic then how is maligning them going to encourage that?

No, an increase in riders is NOT a behavior in the sense of a specific act. It is the growth of a group. Within that group there are specific behaviors. Most of them good. A small part of them bad.

Where exactly is someone beating a drum about ebikers in general? Stop trying to mispresent other people's points. It is explicitly clear I am referring to a small group (as exists in all groups), and pointing out how the technology introduces  distinct considerations to etiquette. Your choice to ignore that point, and try to gloss over, misrepresent, and confuse the issue is just plain weird. Not sure what you are trying to defend here. It's almost as if you choose to ignore other people's points, claim they said they something they did not, and start an argument. THAT is poor etiquette.

Again, misrepresenting and twisting other people words. Again, THAT is a lack of etiquette. If we want to integrate ebikes, very frigging simple...have them follow the same norms and habits as other riders. Surely if you can tie your shoes you can understand that. Or maybe you're a velcro guy. Who knows?

And the same crickets, silently pretending there are no issues, while making inappropriate comparisons to other activities like jetskiing instead of offering ideas to solve the issue at hand.

There are and can be specific restrictions where there issues such as wildlife --- in Sproat, the main concern is limiting the amount of traffic into busy Grizzly habitat. That area gets closed each year on bear issues the way it is. But it is really unlikely that Provincial, Municipal, or District levels of government are going to spend much time and resources on separating out different types of bikes on existing trail networks. The onus is on the public to get along and be considerate. Again, there are DBs on mountain bikes and ebikes and even on foot. The issue at stake is that DBs on ebikes introduce a different set of issues because of their distinct capabilities. Leadership on best behavior really needs to come from within that user group, and not from everyone else. 

But still, mostly crickets. The main ebike aficionados continue to be all yeah more for me, more laps, more faster, look at me go up the dh trail! Yeaah more more more!  

My concern is not people on ebikes in general. The majority of them are like the majority of people on bikes. My concern is the lack of ownership and initiative within that user group and people advancing the ebike cause to address the issues at stake that create issues for all riders (I.E. directional riding ..up the downs, courtesy passing uphill, riding in crap weather).  Within the mountain bike community we have extensive guidance on good conduct on the trails. There just needs to be a bit of acceptance in the ebike circles and some maturation to address the outstanding issues and promote responsibility and etiquette.

Posted by: syncro

Couple thoughts on the recent posts.

Re trail wear, what factor does increased ridership play? For anyone that's been riding for at least the past 10, and worse going back 20 or 30 years, the number of people out riding has absolutely exploded in the past 5 years, especially the last 2-3. How many new trails have appeared in that time, particularly sanctioned trails where a lot of the newer riders may be heading? Is there as much dislike for the huge increase in new riders as there is for ebikes?

Second, how are or how should the issues of trail etiquette be handled? So things like riding sensitive trails in the rain/wet, riding technique to avoid dragging brakes and causing ruts?

Third, how are people getting involved to lobby land managers to consider expanding trail networks, and what types of trails are built? Should there be a bunch of new machine built trails constructed to hopefully help take pressure off old school single track jank? If governmental authorities are ok with plowing a hillside forest for housing, roads and parking lots then should they not be okay with digging up maybe 1-2% of the forest floor in a certain area in order to create more trails, including machine built trails?

My feeling is that if the mtb community doesn't start having some serious discussions on these things then there probably will be problems down the road if mtb ebikes take over as the preferred bike of choice on trails as some think might happen.

EDIT: Oh, and what about uphill travel? How do people feel about the idea of restricting uphill travel of ebikes to roads or gravel paths like Old Buck and banning them from climbing routes?

• Hard to "dislike" the increase of riders. It's not a behavior - it's a function of our society. I am far more concerned how any segment of that growing population may behave, particularly in terms of wrecking things for everyone else.
• Etiquette - there is lots of peer pressure and club-based education focused on this. Trailforks has helped with their wet-weather friendly trails filter. However, there has been a total and absolute black hole of conversation in terms of e-bike specific etiquette. The loudest voices promoting ebikes have had ZERO to offer in terms of how to manage this great new technology appropriately. The sellers and pushers have left it to everyone else to make the common sense suggestions such as polite heads up when passing uphill in boost mode. While ebike fans have made loud demands to be treated like mountain bikes, a group of them have simultaneously refused to actually behave like mountain bikes as they ride UP popular downhill routes. Pretty simple that if you want to be treated as a mountain bike, you should follow the established traffic patterns set by existing riders.  But nope! Still have issues with those that think they can re-arrange the flow, and throttle up the blue trails and easy blacks. Etiquette is cancelled out by entitlement among a small group. Still, the vast majority of people riding ebikes conduct themselves as politely as most other riders. There will always be a small part of every group that makes the rest look bad. Might just be up to the rest of us to shame the d-bags to keep their number in check.
• Can't imagine limiting ebikes to any specific trails. That would take Section 56 rules, which Ministry is reluctant to make, and is almost certainly unlikely to make for ebikes. Probably more important to keep them riding with the flow and properly integrated with other traffic, than trying to separate them.

I will go out on a limb here and argue that ebikes will contribute to increased destruction of trails. The key issue is not that people will do more laps. I think that is beyond question, with some people doing triple and quadruple laps of trails that they could normally only ride once. This is most impactful on non-shuttle-able trails where big bikes would normally never wander. But that's not my main concern.

I think the greatest impact comes from WHEN people will ride ebikes. I've already seen many avid riders and pros talk about ebikes as their choice for winter riding and bad weather days.

Yeah, great.  You want to slap on big fenders and rain jackets and easily blast up in the snow and rain? Ebike can help you do that. Freeze-thaw and knee-deep puddles be damned.  Who cares about the mud when you can throttle through it? Why worry about your 4 pounds of gortex and big mudflaps, because you only have to break a sweat if you want to. Scotty, give me boost power now!  

Ebikes allow people to ride comfortably when the trails are at their worst, and at times they may normally just not ride.  Don't worry though. The endless army of trail builders will just armor everything with rocks when the dirt has been all stripped away.  Loamers in winter, loamers in spring! One season of riding and all the trails end up as another atomic dustbin. 

Of course lots of people ride mountain bikes in bad weather, not just ebikes. This just makes it a LOT easier.

Trials and MTB have gotten along fine in Squamish. The occasional screw up by one party or another (from both groups)  usually gets smoothed pretty quick. In Valleycliffe ,most bikers know to expect trials riders. It's also really easy to hear them coming and make space.

The thing is that ultimately both groups have pretty clear boundaries, and when someone steps out of line, they get corrected by their OWN peers pretty quick. I've seen Trials riders call their own out for tearing up trails near Alice Lake and MTBs call out their own for expecting priority on Valleycliffe slabs or lumping trials in with motos. For the most part, each have their own preferred lines, and interactions are rare.

Now if only the people pushing ebikes the hardest and loudest spoke up with a bit of common sense etiquette guidelines, that would be great. But nope...just more look at me! I can climb Credit Line! Yeaaahhhhh me!! 

The vast majority of people I've met on ebikes have been great - just like the vast majority on MTB or Trials. The difference is that there is a vacuum of leadership for ebike users, and a few crappy over-exposed examples giving people stupid ideas.

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: trumpstinyhands

Mountain biking Vs hikers was largely solved by mountain bikers building our own trails. These days for the most part hikers use 'our' trails rather than the other way around. Maybe in the future there will be 'E-specific' climbs that provide an interesting challenge for E-bikers, which is currently what is happening with them riding up downhill only trails....

Is this really an issue or just a white rhino? I personally have never seen any ebikers climbing downhill tracks.

Our local Ebike promoter internet sensation has repeatedly posted videos of himself going up trails that are labelled as downhill primary.  Totally douche way to promote your product. The downhill/uphill designation is made on the Section 57 application. Now that does not mean that it is illegal to go up them. However, the intended purpose for any reasonable person is downhill.  I've also seen some fairly well known riders blasting up Leave of Absence (downhill primary) on their ebikes against the flow on a trail that is super popular with beginner riders.  Nice. Taking your motor-assisted ride up the trail as kids and groups have to bail out of the way.  So yeah, it happens enough and with continued bad role-modelling, it will only get worse. 

Now, many ebike promoters have spouted off that they are "mountain bikes". If so, they should absolutely be expected to not only follow the rules of mountain biking, but also the etiquette and established traffic patterns. Ebikers going up downhill primary trails not only goes against the idea of them being "mountain bikes" it also goes against etiquette, and the established standards of care for reasonable trail users.

It is not reasonable to expect a person coming down say Credit Line or Rupert (or other trails buddy films himself on) to suddenly make way for a motor-assisted rider flying up the downhill trail. There is zero reasonable argument to give the uphill motor-assisted rider priority over the person descending the trail in the direction it was built to be travelled.

It my actually be unlikely that this argument is tested on liability due to an unfortunate collision. I hope it doesn't happen.  One would think people will do what they can to avoid it. However, the downhill riders are certainly being put more at risk in having to lock it up with a person coming up at them, and being deprived of enjoying the trails if making way for uphill riders who are only able to ride the trail in that direction by virtue of having a motor. To be clear, Credit Line can ONLY be climbed with motor assist. Rupert the same. Leave of Absence - possible with pedals, but only for super elites.  There are other trails that people climb here, those are just a few examples.

There are also plenty of technical climbs that are difficult enough for an ebike around here. SOT, Hoods, Credit Line, Take back the Donut, Debecks, most of Valleycliffe....all have tech climbs that average riders on ebikes will fail to clean. That's just Squamish - the shore may not have as many choices.

I'm all for electric-assist MTBs and have many friends that ride them (responsibly). But I'm full-on against Ebike riders claiming special privileges over other riders by going up the downhills against the flow, and then beaking off about wanting to be treated as mountain bikes.