cerealkilla_ profile

Thanks for this article Andrew

Phil can climb pretty well already ....this bike just makes it ridiculous.

Unfortunately, thieves also walk among us, and this can make identifying stolen goods very difficult. I bought some parts from a guy I (thought I) knew who worked in a local shop, some high-end wheels and a nice bar-stem combo. A few weeks later, another rider stopped me and told me the parts were stolen. The parts were distinct, and it was clear from the details they provided that the parts had been ripped off.  I gave the parts right back, and then went and had a "conversation" behind the shop with the guy that sold me the goods. His boss was also informed.

This is a really great breakdown. Thanks. I'll be referring to this directly as I clean my brakes.

You seem to have interpreted something that is not there Paul.

The comment was observing the depth of insight to societal issues (i.e. socioeconomic bases for differences in activity choices, as a start, insights to the process of change to follow). 

There was no slight to engineering whatsoever, and only a compliment to the writer.

Of course, if you set out in search of ignorance, you will never fail to find it.   :)

Masters in Mechanical Engineering? Really?

You articulate the issues like a person with a PhD in Sociology. 
Great offering of ideas. Thanks!

I had my weeks-old Easton Haven rear hub strip free at the freehub in the middle of a race. I was choked. This was just sport-class northwest peanuts racing, but I put a lot of training into it.

Contacted OGC (distro) and dropped off the wheel. Within one week, they had cleared it for warranty, and rebuilt my wheel the new hub, in time for my next race.  One week for turnaround with a rebuilt wheel out the other side. Took the sting out of the DNF, and that wheel is still humming nicely nearly 10 years later.

Another good warranty experience was the Geomangear lithium-ion batteries. The guy behind Geoman had a small-fry operation with hopes of becoming a new Niterider or something. He put out a bunch of batteries with MagicShine kits that were found to be at risk of exploding. He then issued a recall with an offer to replace all batteries at a nominal fee. This was before the restrictions on battery shipments. I received my batteries a few weeks later. Unfortunately, this warranty campaign probably cost Geoman his business.  

Third great experience was the early Crankworks days going into the SRAM booth with all my forks for free service and warranties. Before it became the gong-show it is today, you just needed to come by in the first few days, and you would end up with all your problems solved. Thanks folks!

A few questions.

1. It seems these will fit some stays better than others, namely those with a flatter top surface or rectangular or box cross section. How well might this work for more sculpted or even (gasp) tubular stays? I note the "foot" at the bottom of the stack. Is it configured in a manner (shape and density) that it will fit well to most shapes?
2. You indicate that these must be cut to length. Certainly that is something you need to get right the first time. Is it easy to measure in that respect?
3. I assume the system cannot be transferred to another bike unless the stays are very similar. Yes?
4. How is the long-term attachment? Has it stayed in place or has any wiggle crept in?
5. If wiggle does creep in, can one simply reapply zip ties?

The extra-wide collars are a deal-breaker for me, until I decide I also need a new bar. I like to ride close to the end of my bars, and can't imaging sliding in from 780 to 760. 

I also wonder if anyone has tried Revs AND the Flexx bar AND an Allsop flex stem? Wouldn't that be the more better than you can believe it?

Clearly, the ideal insert would be light as Rimpact, but offer ease of installation and the performance obtained from the Tannus or Cushcore. Do you think there is room in the R&D development curve to achieve these goals? Or, do you think there are inherent limits to the tire-insert concept that will continue to force riders to pick between light and limited performance vs heavy and better performance?

Awesome. Way to go bros. Could have been a nice thing, easy parking, go for a ride, grab a snack.

But you had to be sooo awesoooooooome about it.

This is EXACTLY why we cannot have nice things.

Posted by: andy-eunson

He waited ahead for me but apologized profusely for being a dick. That was that. 

We need more of this. THIS is called "manning up" or whatever term people prefer.

Too many people trying to make justifications for how their personal individual choices are okay. The directive to recreate in one's own community is to decrease travel across regions, decrease trips to service establishments (restaurants etc), decrease people sharing vehicle rides together, and reduce complexity of contact tracing when that must occur.

Ultimately, everyone following the directions is best to manage the pandemic. Every time someone decides their own choice is exceptional because they're assessing their own risk, they are ignoring the societal-wide challenge of bringing the pandemic under control.

Unfortunately, the conscientious majority will continue to be held hostage by those that put their own needs and wants ahead of societal good. Those that buck the rules (as in all parts of life) are parasites on those that actually support broader public health initiatives. 

This selfish lot, which hypocritically often tends to be the ones most vocal about how unjust the health Orders are - despite their failure to comply....this lot coasts along because our Government has largely sought to take a non-coercive approach. Not only does a more strictly regulated approach tax resources too much, it also impacts compliant people (and poor people) too much. From a value perspective and rights perspective, there is also reluctance to be overly heavy handed in the application of Orders. Thus, there has been little follow-up on collecting fines, and people that have (say) had ferries turned around due to their personal beligerence, are generally handled with kiddie-gloves and fines rather than the type of punishments the rest of the passengers desire.  People whine and moan about our tyrannical Govt, yet the majority of Dr. Henry's orders have been recommendations and requests. It's not just flaws in our Govt and health systems that have led us to this point.....it is selfishness, and the evolving modern belief that freedoms and rights revolve around consumption, recreation, and socializing........this is a very distant mutation from what the progenitors of our Charter had in mind.

They are indeed riding Surrons as Dave points out.

What's worse, is that they have been trying to claim status as trials bikes, even though they lack soft tires at low psi. This has pissed off the trials club greatly. Trials bikes are permitted by Squamish bylaws in (most) areas where MTBs also ride, such as Valleycliff and Cheema Lands. However, user club agreements and district  bylaws (where applicable) are against dirtbikes in such areas. 
This is a good example of a few selfish riders endangering trail access (and trail integrity) for all

Dave, you potentially have the best opportunity to be an influential and positive spokesperson for responsible eMTB riding. Any ideas how you (or others) might educate these folks (and the others that may likely follow them)?

The next wave is here. There's a couple of DBs on full electric dirtbikes (class 3 ebike throttle twisters) ripping up the trails in Squamish. Looks like 3 inch tires - so perfect for accessing riding trails and ripping the dirt off them. Not electric trials bikes, and not pedelecs. 

Been spotted in the Alice Lake Park, district trails and bike paths, private lands where dirt-bikes are prohibited, and on trails recognized by most rational residents as MTB-Trials only based on user-group agreements.

As more of these things are sold without any sort of guidance on their use from the sellers and marketers, it's just going to get messier - and the trails and trail access will suffer the most.

Yup, they could all do more. Agreed.

I do see ongoing communication around trail etiquette from rider clubs, and from riders themselves.

However, whenever the topic of etiquette specific to ebikes comes up, it is seldom if ever ebike riders leading the conversation, and zero input from the influencers (we know who they are). Instead it is just argue this and argue that when anyone suggests there are problematic issues to deal with.

The shralp and shred aesthetic is going nowhere - nor do the vast majority of riders ever reach a level to actually shralp and shred. But all riders use trails and interact with others. That's where the biggest problems are likely to occur.

Posted by: Hepcat

It seems the E-bike manufacturers would advertise for more responsible riding practices to avoid bad PR?

In THIS I find the most fault.....and with the influencers and reps. Not a single peep from them on how to responsibly integrate the new technology with existing patterns of trail use. Nope. No contributions to help with etiquette, reduce risk, or make nice. Nope. Just yahoo! with a big dumb smile and thumbs sticking up, and lots of videos posted of ripping upward on the descents. 

Even when some of them have been very clearly challenged to provide a voice of responsibility (as so many do in Mountain biking), no response is given.  And THAT is probably the biggest threat to ebike use there is - the reluctance to demonstrate responsible leadership in one's own sport.  They would rather take the chance on dragging down all riding, than step up to the plate and say, "Yeah, etiquette is important. Risk mitigation is important. Here's our ideas of how to achieve that."

Sad.

Posted by: knnn

Some interesting perspectives, thanks for the input.

There are three main reasons I'm considering an eMTB; specifically my age (now 61), two ACL's in poor condition and too many competing interests to allow me to become mountain fit.   I used to ride Fromme a fair bit and know how much effort is involved, particularly if wanting to hit up 7th and then do another trail.  Although I'm not yet fully decided,  I suspect that an eMTB will provide me with the easiest route back into the sport and the ability to keep biking for longer.  I'm also considering getting back into trail maintenance, however, that is a very slippery slope which I am not sure I want to get sucked back into quite yet.

Considering I would do most of my riding on Fromme and Seymour, I have been wondering as to the likelihood that these trails could be closed to eMTB's in the future? 

I'm also not really clear as to the arguments or perceptions why eMTB's need to be banned from trails, as long as they are assisted rather than throttle based?

Is it due to the perception that they do more  damage to the trails because of the heavier weight and increased numbers of laps? 

Do eMTB riders tend to exhibit a relatively higher degree of poor trail etiquette ?

Your questions - my humble contribution.

1. I would guess unlikely to see future restrictions, given the increase of ALL types of riding. Really this probably depends on good conduct of ebike riders. It only takes a few of any group to make the rest look bad. Ebikes are still a smaller group without a well organized lobby or representative group advocating for them, or speaking out about proper riding etiquette. That potentially makes them vulnerable. However, the 2018 provincial position paper on ebikes on public land currently protects them quite well. Now, Ministry said clearly the policy would be reviewed, but I doubt that has happened yet, due to other distractions. However, decision-makers and the public won't waste time if there was a sudden increase of problems with ebikes....they would just bring in restrictions. Still, if any restrictions were to come into play, they would likely only affect certain areas such as certain busy multi-use areas, park areas, or so forth. In my humble opinion, unlikely. 
2. Reasons vary. Some are off-the-wall (i.e. waaaahhh they're cheating) - others are based on issues that in fact are not well understood, such as (potential) trail impacts, speed of uphill traffic, questions of insurance based on those with liability for the trails (see Kootenay Columbia Trails Society). You could probably spend a week reading the arguments back and forth, and still not cover it all. The main thing is they introduce additional energy and propulsion and weight, and they let novice riders get into situations and areas they may otherwise not reach. These are not stand along problems that means ebike = bad, but the consequences of these factors is not yet understood fully, so arguments continue.
3. For some, yes. Many people will point to the old IMBA study that showed no difference between emtb and mtb UNDER a very limited set of conditions. Not proof. Just one small study. However, there are other questions, such as whether or not people reach of the ebike more often when the weather sucks because they can sport fenders and rain gear and still ride. THere are also issues about people modifying ebikes to have higher output, throttles instead of pedal assist, and the emergence of other technologies that may push them close to moto and farther from bikes. For the current moment, however, it's not just the technology, it is how it is used.  Others argue that the (approx) extra 20 pounds of ebike is no different than an extra 20 pounds of person (ignoring the fact, that when a person chooses a bike, their weight does not change). Anyways, blah blah blah, it goes on and on.
4. That's hard to say. Very vague. There is minority in EVERY user group that is a total and utter dipsh*t. EVERY group. Except maybe Waldorf teachers - they seem like a good lot. Anyway, the only difference with that minority of ebikers in the dipsh*t category, is that they are a dipsh*t with an ebike instead of a dipsh*t with a MTB. Either one can do harm. Arguably, the one with the ebike can go a little faster up a hill, can climb trails everyone else is descending, and packs an extra 20lbs of bike....but really the flaw is in the person, not the bike.

Posted by: mammal

100% agreed with what cerealkilla_ wrote... 

But I'll add: Aside from ebikes attracting the "jerks" perhaps more than a regular bike would, they are also attracting complete beginners. And although they may not intend to act in a "jerk manner" the natural progressive nature of traditional mountain biking (beginning on lower/shorter trails, not having the fitness to blow past others) tended to keep those people somewhat in check until they have gained more knowledge of the nuances and etiquette of the sport. The popularity of Ebikes has "short-circuited" that natural process in many cases.

Ha! This reminds me of something I saw last week....some kid on an ebike, stranded at the end of a (rather easy) trail. He was receiving assistance from 3 other people, and was good natured about his predicament, if not a bit sheepish.

His problem you may ask?

His pants were tangled in his drive mechanism, rendering him immobile. He could neither dismount nor extract his leg from his pants without 3 other people assisting him. I asked them if they needed help, and resisted the urge to take a picture. 

Is it really such a great idea that any rider can get themselves into pretty much any situation? 

Super tech climb to reach that gnarly trail? No problem!  Total beginner with minimal fitness and zero handling skills? No need to stick to the easy accessible trails until you build your skill - just motor right up to the top and let er rip!

Pants stuck in drivetrain. That is all.

The thread was originally about Squamish, but then devolved into another ebike debate. What is the connection? Is there one?

Certainly....whenever any area goes through a rapid peak in popularity, it will attract the crowds...the masses...the herd....that will include those that are out for maximum thrills, and have zero regard for others...whatever they may ride.

When you add a motor to a bike, it enables a few behaviors that one cannot reasonably manage on a mountain bike. That includes blasting uphill into traffic, and passing at high speed without warning. Both of these things have happened numerous times in the past month, both involving ebikes on a regular basis. 

Did the technology make them do it? - No

Are ebikes bad? - No

Is it just a matter of a few bad apples like we have in every group? Yes...but kind of....

Again, adding a motor lets people do douche-bag things they wouldn't get away with on a mountain bike..,...such as boosting up the left side of the Mashiter and crashing into people coming down, or pinning it past people labouring on a climb and nearly running them off the trail. The motor simply enables more selfish behavior among people that already care little for others. Go figure.

Meanwhile, the ebike-pushers and marketers remain totally silent with respect to any discussion of courtesy. There has not been a peep from our resident walking-commercial about the extra responsibility that comes with adding a motor to the mix. No suggestion of riding in the direction of existing traffic. No discussion of giving people extra warning in advance as you scream up behind them.

Instead, I see ebike buddy posting videos of himself climbing up the downhill trails, whining about how he feels victimized when people call them mopeds, and then hypocritically ridiculing people on mountain bikes. 

If we can point a finger of blame for the broader pattern of (albeit rare) douche-bag behavior, it can point at those people that only seek to sell....selling out our sport, without a spare second to talk about courtesy. Solely focused on instant gratification, while offering every excuse in the book about helping disabled riders, getting a superior workout (while also making it effortless)....and so forth. 

There simply has been zero leadership from those that brought ebikes to the riding community, so it is little surprise that the minority of jerk-offs that do buy them, proceed to use them in such a manner. They are the same crowd that strip on front lawns, toss their empties, and blast loamers in the rain. Most people will use these rides responsibly. However, a motorized mtb provides a special attraction to those that really only care about themselves...minimal effort, maximum yahoo. 

If I ever get an ebike, and I won't rule it out, I sure as hell won't ride up Rupert and LOA, and will sure as sh*t slow down and give an extra friendly hello in advance as I seek to pass, and definitely won't use it to slap on fenders and pants so I can rip trails in the rain....but I guess that it's too much to ask that this is suggested to others. Wouldn't want to suggest that this extra fast toy comes with a bit of extra responsibility. Heaven forbid we infringe on that personal individual freedom.