What we choose to ignore

But admitting that you are a big enough geek to know godwins law…

I know what you are trying to say, but to me the release of these videos puts things in a wrong light, there are rules set in place to give government agencies free reign to operate without restriction in a time of emergency, the benefit is that they won't be delayed by red tape and bureaucracy, but, they put themselves in a situation where they can easily exploit the citizens and abuse it. Similar arguments were put up against the CCTV systems around urban England, people were worried that with constant surveillance their rights were being violated, but the violation will only be there with an exploit.
So I guess the question is, do you trust the government enough to not exploit the laws they have made for themselves? In the case of the US, I can see why anyone would be nervous.

The videos are quite correct, in that the Bush admin has been quietly and deliberately enacting laws that allow them to suspend the constitution. There is no need for a democratic country, even in emergency, to suspend the constitutional rights of its citizens.

If you read the US constitution, it is clear that the intent of the writers and framers of the constitution to state that certain rights may never be taken away by the government or anyone else, for that matter. That is why there are statements like "these rights are self-evident" and "unalienable rights" appear in the preliminary text. They are rights that belong to the people, not something granted to the people through the benevolence and generosity of the government of the day.

Emergencies can be handled without suspension of rights. It is a weak government, not a strong one, than needs to flex its muscles by suspending rights.

I recommend that everyone read Noam Chomsky's book, "Failed States" for a solid update on the excesses of the Bush admin and the disgusting realities surrounding them.

Kn.

The videos are quite correct, in that the Bush admin has been quietly and deliberately enacting laws that allow them to suspend the constitution. There is no need for a democratic country, even in emergency, to suspend the constitutional rights of its citizens.

I've often wondered if the country has become so large that the government can no longer effectively handle it, and things like this are drafted up as an easy way to solve a complex problem.

I have yet to see the video, the Trudeau suspended the rights of Canadians in the 70s no?

I fail to see how this is different than the War Measures Act in Canada:

To quote Mr. Trudeau

The War Measures Act gives sweeping powers to the Government. It also suspends the operation of the Canadian Bill of Rights. I can assure you that the Government is most reluctant to seek such powers, and did so only when it became crystal clear that the situation could not be controlled unless some extraordinary assistance was made available on an urgent basis.

http://canadaonline.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya[HTML_REMOVED]sdn=canadaonline[HTML_REMOVED]cdn=newsissues[HTML_REMOVED]tm=10[HTML_REMOVED]gps=138_3_1161_832[HTML_REMOVED]f=00[HTML_REMOVED]tt=14[HTML_REMOVED]bt=0[HTML_REMOVED]bts=0[HTML_REMOVED]zu=http[HTML_REMOVED]#37;3A//www.collectionscanada.ca/primeministers/h4-4065-e.html

Yes, and to this day, it is still debated as to whether it was necessary, or even effective, to invoke the War Measures Act.

Kn.

"processing areas" hmmm real original. Oh, oh like this one here?

that is a sad photo. very sad.

Impressive - only two posts before the first Hitler/Nazi regime comments.

The left wing debate squad really brought its A-game today.

(And I don't even like GW)

…how many right wing mountain bikers even exsist???

… I haven't read much, but is this about how Bush and pals put everybody in a predicament like "you're gay if you don't want war" so the yellow belly pussy ass congress said we will take our power to decide whether we go to war and just hand it over to bush(one person) so he can make the desicion when they knew that he would clearly choose to go after the oil in another country other than the one that initiated the attacks?

…not to take bush's side or anything but it was congress that fucked up and broke the national law… congress decides who goes to war, and what they did giving it to bush was immature and irresponsible much like over 50[HTML_REMOVED]#37; of our voting base…

I'm no historian, and i'm also a fairly optimistic thinker, but guys. you only need to do a BIT.. like a VERY small amount of history checking to see that drawing parallels between the bush administration and the holocaust are way out of line. the holocaust, dudes. spend like 5 minutes looking at the numbers and blatant unconcealed maneuvers by the Nazis. Over a million kids were killed, just for starters. in 15 years. 1 million children. i think bush is a fuck-tard and is hurting the planet and has all the wrong motivations as a lead of a beautiful coutry, but it's not genocide.

someone say something intelligible and i'll read it and think. maybe i just don't know.

haven't seen the video yet… i'm at work and the network blocks this crap.

^^^ I agree.

I think those of us born post WWII don't realise the scope of the death and destruction world wide. I can't get over it.

something like 60 million people killed by brute force means so many cities bombed into oblivian and then the death camps, 4 million people exterminated.

I cannot comprehend such a sacle of calamity.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/holocaust/timeline.html

it's really incredible. i followed that image back to the site. it's so sad.

I'm no historian, and i'm also a fairly optimistic thinker, but guys. you only need to do a BIT.. like a VERY small amount of history checking to see that drawing parallels between the bush administration and the holocaust are way out of line. the holocaust, dudes. spend like 5 minutes looking at the numbers and blatant unconcealed maneuvers by the Nazis. Over a million kids were killed, just for starters. in 15 years. 1 million children. i think bush is a fuck-tard and is hurting the planet and has all the wrong motivations as a lead of a beautiful coutry, but it's not genocide.

someone say something intelligible and i'll read it and think. maybe i just don't know.

haven't seen the video yet… i'm at work and the network blocks this crap.

The holocaust is only one aspect of the Nazi party's activity. Despite the fact that the holocaust is an horrific part of history, there's a lot more to what they did. Focusing only on the holocaust and ignoring the many steps that gave the Nazis power and allowed them to govern as a dictatorship, a previously democratic country is a very dangerous thing. Could lead to a similar power grab in another country, like, oh I don't know, the USA …

Kn.

…how many right wing mountain bikers even exsist???

Plenty.