gearbox bikes

I don' know if the rules will change, I don't see it now cuz the 1,2,3 class designation is pretty wide spread,

lotta class1 E-bikes at SMBA but we don't see ^^those Radpower bikes made out of Chinesium and besides aren't they illegal ?

you do see them at the coffee shop or in front of the library

Not that it was ever on purpose but build a trail on a steep hill, run it thru bar wide trees thro in some rocks

and its no fun for the old guys wearing socks n sandals & smoking a dart

you need >9k for a real E-mtn bike with real brakes/ real suspension and the skills to ride a > 50lb mtn bike

Gear boxes are just too inefficent for human power but an E-motor is a game changer for the gearbox

Does the new Nicolai count as a gearbox? Not exactly I guess but it is the first major step forward in drivetrains since 1x and clutches. The Supre drive does manage to tick all the boxes except for centralizing the drivetrain parts in the middle of the frame: light weight (compared to a proper planetary gearbox), low drag, even tension in every gear, protect the derailleur, shift under power. But AFAIC it might be as close are we're going to get for pedal bikes. I thought I wanted a gearbox but I think realistically I actually want the Supre drive.

^My biggest hangup with the Nucleon 16 is the SuperBoost 157 spacing.  😂

Posted by: craw

Does the new Nicolai count as a gearbox? Not exactly I guess but it is the first major step forward in drivetrains since 1x and clutches. The Supre drive does manage to tick all the boxes except for centralizing the drivetrain parts in the middle of the frame: light weight (compared to a proper planetary gearbox), low drag, even tension in every gear, protect the derailleur, shift under power. But AFAIC it might be as close are we're going to get for pedal bikes. I thought I wanted a gearbox but I think realistically I actually want the Supre drive.

you should check out what trinity bike/wrp are doing with their take on the light central shifting box:

https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17948432432069856/

way more impressive imho

Looks like Trinity is going Honda style with a drivetrain in a box. Huge!

oh man, thread is almost 10 years old. bunch of geezers. 

but yeah, the trinity is the most interesting current development on a few levels. having a universal cradle fixture that allows the frame to accommodate current standard gearboxes, as well as a conventional drivetrain and their own inboard DIAB system is brilliant. and the linear actuated inboard cassette detail is rad. if all goes as planned - protected gearbox, mass centralized, lighter than traditional gearboxes, with less friction, and using standard wear parts (cassette, chainring, chain), this could be a significant step forward. 

as derailleur drivetrains have gotten better, and gearboxes have not made any significant changes to improve the criticisms (weight, drag, shifting, expense, serviceability) , my past gearbox evangelism has waned...

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: craw

Does the new Nicolai count as a gearbox? Not exactly I guess but it is the first major step forward in drivetrains since 1x and clutches. The Supre drive does manage to tick all the boxes except for centralizing the drivetrain parts in the middle of the frame: light weight (compared to a proper planetary gearbox), low drag, even tension in every gear, protect the derailleur, shift under power. But AFAIC it might be as close are we're going to get for pedal bikes. I thought I wanted a gearbox but I think realistically I actually want the Supre drive.

you should check out what trinity bike/wrp are doing with their take on the light central shifting box:

https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17948432432069856/

way more impressive imho

Maybe. But there's no way I'd buy something this kooky from someone I don't know. Nicolai has been building mad scientist stuff (and supporting it for decades afterwards) for 30 years. If Trinity/Wrp can talk a prestige manufacturer into using their system then that would go a long way.
The weight centralization of the Trinity/Wrp system seems the only major advantage over the Supre Drive, which is significant. But not every advance has to solve every single issue. Trinity seems a long way off from actually producing anything.

curious to see how LAL will fare. i love that he's pushing a novel concept - that appears to work quite well in practice. i'm just sceptical that the number of concessions - lots of proprietary parts, and required significant limitation of frame design parameters to accommodate, will allow for a level of adoption that will be sustainable. i haven't broken a derailleur in years, and stuff like the incoming sram mech (more inboard, with robust dm mount) may further push the LAL into the realm of questionable need for most riders.

The Kavenz Effigear test bike looks pretty good if one is down with Trunnion shocks

Posted by: xy9ine

curious to see how LAL will fare. i love that he's pushing a novel concept - that appears to work quite well in practice. i'm just sceptical that the number of concessions - lots of proprietary parts, and required significant limitation of frame design parameters to accommodate, will allow for a level of adoption that will be sustainable. i haven't broken a derailleur in years, and stuff like the incoming sram mech (more inboard, with robust dm mount) may further push the LAL into the realm of questionable need for most riders.

No major change to drivetrains is going to happen without proprietary frame stuff be it the Supre drive or a gearbox so I think we can count this out as a negative. The Supre is really just repositioning derailleur functions that already exist and those new parts are well protected and manufactured in BC. I have only broken 1-2 normal derailleurs in the last 10 years so I could see you using 1 or 2 Supre derailleurs in the life of the bike. I love the tidiness of the Supre and gearbox bikes but I haven't particularly liked the ride of the gearboxes. The Supre seems better but I guess we have to wait and see how the tests of the production bike go.

I don't know if mid mount E- motors have a standard mounting pattern for the 5 or 6 motors out there but I think its possible to make a motor/ gearbox combo that would fit  where a current mid mount E- motor goes  and there would not be much weird shit to fabricate

Posted by: xy9ine

oh man, thread is almost 10 years old. bunch of geezers. 

but yeah, the trinity is the most interesting current development on a few levels. having a universal cradle fixture that allows the frame to accommodate current standard gearboxes, as well as a conventional drivetrain and their own inboard DIAB system is brilliant. and the linear actuated inboard cassette detail is rad. if all goes as planned - protected gearbox, mass centralized, lighter than traditional gearboxes, with less friction, and using standard wear parts (cassette, chainring, chain), this could be a significant step forward. 

as derailleur drivetrains have gotten better, and gearboxes have not made any significant changes to improve the criticisms (weight, drag, shifting, expense, serviceability) , my past gearbox evangelism has waned...

you forgot their version of the ochain

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: xy9ine

oh man, thread is almost 10 years old. bunch of geezers. 

but yeah, the trinity is the most interesting current development on a few levels. having a universal cradle fixture that allows the frame to accommodate current standard gearboxes, as well as a conventional drivetrain and their own inboard DIAB system is brilliant. and the linear actuated inboard cassette detail is rad. if all goes as planned - protected gearbox, mass centralized, lighter than traditional gearboxes, with less friction, and using standard wear parts (cassette, chainring, chain), this could be a significant step forward. 

as derailleur drivetrains have gotten better, and gearboxes have not made any significant changes to improve the criticisms (weight, drag, shifting, expense, serviceability) , my past gearbox evangelism has waned...

you forgot their version of the ochain

The Trinity is a bike to keep an eye on for sure. Nothing you could reasonably expect for a few years. You can get a Supre-equipped Nucleon in the spring and ride it for a few years before Trinity approaches production. Collect them all!

Posted by: XXX_er

I don't know if mid mount E- motors have a standard mounting pattern for the 5 or 6 motors out there but I think its possible to make a motor/ gearbox combo that would fit  where a current mid mount E- motor goes  and there would not be much weird shit to fabricate

integrated gearbox solutions for ebikes will likely be the biggest associated technological move in the coming years. conventional drivetrains are ill equipped for the added punishment, and motors somewhat offset most of the biggest detractors of gearboxes in conventional bikes - ie, weight (already a pig), drag (irrelevant), expense (already silly expensive), probably shifting (if they utilize electronic actuation, maybe even auto), etc. it makes all the sense. and perhaps some of that tech development may trickle down to pedal bikes.