Honestly, based on your own comments from the very beginning of the review period and even in this particular article... It doesn't seem like current batches are remotely relevant to the launch experience of this product. And in Dale's own video even his pseudo graphic says basically that. At high loads, this thing was great. At initial bite, it was a PITA for him. That is a totally valid thing to complain about, and if SRAM is marketing this as less fatiguing, then complaining about fatiguing from any source (even if caused by deadstroke, not full stroke) is 100% valid. He's measuring the fatigue source he found, because it was abnormally high in his view. He even notes that, 'technically the marketing might be correct' and yet he found it misleading himself.
I don't see how you are conflating his stuff, but then giving a pass on the marketing themselves. I certainly wouldn't give a pass to the existing marketing from anything even in your review, let alone his.
Even within these comment sections, you have two owners who did note that it is noticeably heavier than what they used before, and another that mentioned it was particularly painful to get dialed in just right. Now you can say all you want about maybe Dale just didn't have his done in right, maybe he needed to adjust piston position more etc, but suggesting its just for show, and it couldn't matter to anyone is pretty ridiculous. Next thing you know, you'll be telling me that people can't get RSI from mice or keyboards because there is low/no load. A mushy lever often doesn't actually affect real world peak performance from hydraulic brakes, and yet that feel is considered discomforting to say the least.
Honestly, I think the 'if you had your own anecdotal evidence riding them you'd understand' thing is missing the entire point of reviewers. I don't have enough experience on a variety of different hydraulic brakes (controlled for wildly different bike types/environments) to say a damn thing. Hopefully, you do. That's why we read reviewers. It is good and healthy for reviewers to disagree on products. I'm glad that at least 'nominally' they are checking what other people say and noting that disagreement.
"I wish Dale the best and I’d love to see him give Mavens another look because I’m certain there was some issue with the conclusions he came to."
This is not how your article read. It is not how your comments read. This would be a great statement, but the shade you threw in the article wasn't even as justified as your comment here, and that comment here isn't sufficient justification for any shade IMO. Of course, opinions do vary. If it was for clicks, then clearly it didn't work as the much less well known intend brakes got the same views.
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Side Comment: These days most people don't use hydraulic disk brakes to the limits of technical capability (traction is lost far before then), I wouldn't even consider it relevant to ask the maximal stopping power, unless it is woefully incompetent. It is not relevant in almost any real world situation.
Heat soak and consistent hard riding behavior though absolutely is, but so long as peak power is beyond traction limit, you could have 300mm rotors for all it matters. If I act stupid, I can break traction with 160mm 2pot disks even on dry tarmac with wide slick tires, despite being a heavy rider. Ease of power modulation, so that you can hold the edge of traction, that seems useful, sure. Maybe there is an edge case when you really actually need that peak power. I expect it is much more about the other things listed above though.
We got here with cars about 30 years ago, where the honest truth was that brakes on basically every car were better than anyone needed or used them to be in terms of true peak performance. And so, ABS became standard.... (end tangent)
Sept. 10, 2024, 4:49 p.m. - Anthony Schroeder
Honestly, based on your own comments from the very beginning of the review period and even in this particular article... It doesn't seem like current batches are remotely relevant to the launch experience of this product. And in Dale's own video even his pseudo graphic says basically that. At high loads, this thing was great. At initial bite, it was a PITA for him. That is a totally valid thing to complain about, and if SRAM is marketing this as less fatiguing, then complaining about fatiguing from any source (even if caused by deadstroke, not full stroke) is 100% valid. He's measuring the fatigue source he found, because it was abnormally high in his view. He even notes that, 'technically the marketing might be correct' and yet he found it misleading himself. I don't see how you are conflating his stuff, but then giving a pass on the marketing themselves. I certainly wouldn't give a pass to the existing marketing from anything even in your review, let alone his. Even within these comment sections, you have two owners who did note that it is noticeably heavier than what they used before, and another that mentioned it was particularly painful to get dialed in just right. Now you can say all you want about maybe Dale just didn't have his done in right, maybe he needed to adjust piston position more etc, but suggesting its just for show, and it couldn't matter to anyone is pretty ridiculous. Next thing you know, you'll be telling me that people can't get RSI from mice or keyboards because there is low/no load. A mushy lever often doesn't actually affect real world peak performance from hydraulic brakes, and yet that feel is considered discomforting to say the least. Honestly, I think the 'if you had your own anecdotal evidence riding them you'd understand' thing is missing the entire point of reviewers. I don't have enough experience on a variety of different hydraulic brakes (controlled for wildly different bike types/environments) to say a damn thing. Hopefully, you do. That's why we read reviewers. It is good and healthy for reviewers to disagree on products. I'm glad that at least 'nominally' they are checking what other people say and noting that disagreement. "I wish Dale the best and I’d love to see him give Mavens another look because I’m certain there was some issue with the conclusions he came to." This is not how your article read. It is not how your comments read. This would be a great statement, but the shade you threw in the article wasn't even as justified as your comment here, and that comment here isn't sufficient justification for any shade IMO. Of course, opinions do vary. If it was for clicks, then clearly it didn't work as the much less well known intend brakes got the same views. \-\-\- Side Comment: These days most people don't use hydraulic disk brakes to the limits of technical capability (traction is lost far before then), I wouldn't even consider it relevant to ask the maximal stopping power, unless it is woefully incompetent. It is not relevant in almost any real world situation. Heat soak and consistent hard riding behavior though absolutely is, but so long as peak power is beyond traction limit, you could have 300mm rotors for all it matters. If I act stupid, I can break traction with 160mm 2pot disks even on dry tarmac with wide slick tires, despite being a heavy rider. Ease of power modulation, so that you can hold the edge of traction, that seems useful, sure. Maybe there is an edge case when you really actually need that peak power. I expect it is much more about the other things listed above though. We got here with cars about 30 years ago, where the honest truth was that brakes on basically every car were better than anyone needed or used them to be in terms of true peak performance. And so, ABS became standard.... (end tangent)