joseph-crabtree profile

I am constantly amazed at the number of young e-bikers at Ord as there isn't a climb over a few hundred feet. I no longer go out there to ride there as I've had too many close encounters but sometimes include a loop when out on the "groad" bike. I'm hoping for some rain this winter to thin the herd as it is a great place for the HT and it looks like we'll have the CCCX cross racing going next month. Maybe I'll see you there.

The reference was to "bikes that appeal to the winch and plummet set" so it's about what it does on the climb. I'd say 2 degrees is pretty close on my 160mm FS as I've checked it with the shock o-ring on a smooth steep climb just out of curiosity. And my fork was topping out at times so I doubt it was sagging much.

"because both ends sag" There isn't much fork sag when climbing.

That last photo, Ft Ord?

Sorry, I haven't been able to figure out how to put up a photo with disqus.

As to trumpstinyhands comment, when I had my shop I would leave a middle of the road Park pump for the customers to use and rarely would it last out the year because a lack of spare parts. I can see the Silca lasting another 50 years.

I've got a Silca that is beyond the 50 year mark and is on it's second gauge, third hose and I don't know how many leather washers. Still going strong and aside from topping off a tire I use it to charge my tubeless inflation canister when on the road as it can push some serious pressure.

Unfortunately they lost their domestic alloy frame maker and went the overseas carbon route that was their demise IMHO. I had the last alloy Flux which was much like the 5 Spot. As a rehabilitated XC geek, that was my first "long" travel bike with a 67 degree HTA it was slacker and lower than anything I had ridden and it felt like a bruiser with a Pike.

This is one of the lightest frame weights in it's category. If you don't like the heft of the cheaper version I would suggest that revise your expectations on the cost vs weight of bikes. You can't have it all.

Less stiction = more bob.

WTF is up with all the e-ped love? Now everyone wants a stealth e-ped so they don't look like such a slacker? Doesn't say much for the state of humanity at this point.

"I do agree that whatever dimensions you decide to compromise on, you can adapt. But I will say another word for adapt in this context is "compensate".",

Everything on a bike is a compromise and your :

"-Optimal fore/aft saddle position relative to pedals.

- Optimal butt to bar.

- Optimal pedal to bar (RAD, as Lee likes bikes would call it)

- Optimal grip center to steering axis center.

- Optimal grip center to front axle center (not mentioned here, but relationship of hands to axle is as relevant as anything, arguably).

Is only "optimal" in certain scenarios. That is why a we have arms and legs so we can move around to compensate for the less than optimal.

Ditto, I'd check the garage door alignment.

"Also confusing is why the ESL and several other parameters are measured relative to the flat ground"

ESL is measured perpendicular to the steerer axis centerline just like that new stem you are contemplating.

"I find different bikes require a different saddle to BB relationship"

Totally agree, my HT is more XC/ATB and saddle to bars it's 2cm longer and 3cm lower than the the FS bike as well as a 2 degrees slacker STA

"When I get my bars in exactly the right position relative to my pedals (in both the horizontal and vertical planes) , and by exactly I mean like a 5mm window, it totally unlocks the bike for me."

I feel that humans are fairly adaptable as far as reach and that can be adjusted somewhat via handlebar rise and stem height but the steering feel, i.e. HTA/trail, weight distribution and ESL seems to be what I tend to focus on. There is 25+mm reach difference between my 2 bikes and it isn't an issue for me.

"even with a 35mm stem you'll likely need to roll the bars rearward to "cancel out" them stem length"

It all depends on how much sweep the bars have and where it begins from the center. A 12 degree Syntace bar has twice the rearward offset to the grips as a Truvativ Descendant so choose your bars accordingly.

Fartymarty, the sagged HA on the HT is 65.5, WB is 1118mm and FS is 64.8 with a WB of 1224mm.

The HT's fork is 120mm with a 44mm offset and the FS is 150mm with a 42mm offset. Front/rear center bias about the same.

For the record I'm a recovering XC/CX racer since the '80's with my first "trail" bike in 2014 so I think a +ELS comes naturally to me.

After back to back rides with my HT and FS bikes on the same trails yesterday I'm going to fit a 40mm stem on the FS bike to bring the ESL, as RC wrote or SHO as Lee calls it to about 20mm, same as the HT as I found I was doing more minor corrections with the shorter EFS/SHO. 

Both bikes have a similar trail measurement and size/weight of front wheel so the only other variable is 150mm of rear travel effecting the geo. I run a fairly stiff spring rate and as light a damping as I can get away with so in the janky stuff it's not a stable fore and aft as I'd like sometimes.

My bikes have fairly flat bars so I can adjust the angle of back/up sweep without affecting the reach. The stem length is mainly determined by TT, reach & seat tube angle but I do like the center of the grips to be slightly forward of the steerer centerline.

My HT/ATB has a flat bar with 16 degrees sweep and a 60 mm stem that brings the grips about 20 mm in front of the steerer. The bars are at an even height with the saddle and the bars are rolled up for 2-3 degrees upsweep.

My AM bike with a 23 mm longer reach has 15 mm rise bars with 12 degrees sweep and 31 mm stem puts the grips at 14mm in front of the steerer. The bars are 30 mm higher than the saddle and rolled down so they are almost flat across the tops.

From CC's website DBAir IL page, 

When engaged, the low-speed damping is changed via a set of internal “climbing circuits.” We tune these circuits specifically for the demands of off-road climbing to achieve improved pedal efficiency with less chassis motion. Unlike other climbing platforms, our CS feature adjusts both low-speed compression and rebound. 

I have a Kitsuma on my LT bike and it does feel different on climb mode, a bit more usable in tech climbing and the firm mode is very firm.

On the OTP, I have one on my short travel bike that I ride on the road a lot to link up the local trails and it does a good job of eliminating pedal bob as I run my shock fairly open. On the trail I'll sometimes engage it about 60% to stabilize the bike on a fireroad climb also. BTW, I'm a reformed XC geek so take it for what it's worth.

"With the Inline the Climb Switch is just affecting the compression circuit"  According to Cane Creek the climb switch works on both compression and rebound.

Posted by: XXX_er

I gotta wonder how much of this thread is just (old) people who can't get with new designs i have heard people on line not get with the new designs

on another site i frequent more or less this same thread plays out except and those folks wana change bars

For me it was the old geo that i didnt really like but when I got on the Yeti and then the SC they just felt right so I didn't have to change anything

Talk about blanket statements. As an older rider I have gone through at least 30 bikes in the last 40 years that have been a steady progression in geo and found not all "innovations" work for all situations. This discussion is about dealing with one of those situations that modern geo isn't optimum for so if you're happy with your Yeti and SC, though those bikes don't have particularly steep STA's, I would suggest go ride. And learn to spell.