blackfly profile

I would like to give a prop to Hadley.  Not very common nor seen but IMO they put Chris King to shame (no small feat).  They are run out of a garage and are definitely small but the product is like a fine Swiss watch.  At the time, almost 18 years ago, I had to get a set of hubs for my then new 03 Foes Fly.  I just came off Razor Rock Racing hubs, which, if anyone remembers, made one of the few 20mm thru axle hubs for the rear.  This was how the Ellsworth Dare was fitted, and the RR hubs were terrible.  Improperly sealed, minimal drive side bearing support...you name it.  Couldn't get rid of them fast enough.  Enter the Hadleys.  Freehub is titanium and engagement is by pawls.  My original hubs, on the wheels still on my big bike,  have never had a service (and the entire life of the bike has been Shore only).  I took them apart 5 years ago, I think, just to look and nothing was awry.  Bought a free hub rebuild kit just in case, but they keep on going.  When I built up my new bike just over a year ago, guess what hubs I got, and I had the choice.  I found CK to be expensive, and although they are lighter, perhaps. it is not rotating weight.  And to get almost 18 years (and going!) on a set with no need for new seals, bearings or whatever...remarkable.  I mechanic my own bike and have the tools...never needed any side load adjustment...nothing.  To my knowledge, the best place to get parts is through Balle Racing website.  

I cannot say enough about Hadley.  The epitome of a small company that stays tight and small but delivers the goods.

Know of any shops locally that carry it?  I have the exact fork and stroke as you and I have been a Marzocchi (of old) fan for years; decades, actually.  This looks like something I would look into.  In lbs, what is your weight for reference to the spring rate?  I am 200 so if you use 50......

$500?  Not bad.  Should get into fly fishing.  That would be about mid line for Simms jackets.

I have the Magna 40 rims on Hadley hubs handbuilt by Chromag for me.  I was a little leery about the rims at first but after seeing them built I couldn't be happier.  I run tubeless and the rim/tire interface is very good; the tires hold air very well.  In fact, after getting some help in inflating the tires for the first time, the shop mechanic commented on the fact how well the tires "sat" in the rims.  He commented that they were the finest rims he had worked with tubeless tires.  When I built up my hardtail the wheels sat for about a month, inflated, and needed no air after that time.   Obviously, I give the rims the highest recommendation.

I have a Magna 40 set for my Surface Ti laced to Hadley hubs handbuilt from Pete at Chromag and I would put these wheels against what CB is offering hands down.  Moreover, they are cheaper.  I thought the Magna 40s were way too big but now that I have them I love them.  Also, they are very good with tubeless and hold a seal very well; I have had to put little air in the wheels if left for weeks (this was during the built when the bike was stationary until all the parts showed up).  If CB wanted to really impress me they could start with the Mallet C pedals that I have tried to love but....no spring tension adjustor and the soft brass (I think) cleats that wear so fast you find out they are worn exactly when you don't want to....and the wear time is so fast you would think they were made of plastic.   And the top hoop is $2400 US.  At least aluminum gives or dents.  And as for "you get what you pay for"  I still think nothing beats handbuilt wheels from a true artisan gifted in the craft of wheel building.

Amen.

I totally concur that the part about taking the time to take care of ones self is all to true.  You cannot take care of anyone else if you cannot take care of yourself.  I also am a hardened convert to the moto of "Carp Diem"; in that in the end we all don't know when we are going to be called, so you are best to make every day count.  I recently lost a friend whom at 63 worked all his life to never see one day of retirement.  He did, however, make each day count, and like Ingrid, this is something we can all carry forward with.  Ride more, have more fun, make the effort to do what you want to do.  I wish I could go on Friday, but I am sure like many I will be there in spirit.

Reread the sentence, this time with a modicum of understanding english lexicon.  If you read it slower you will notice that it has no sexual connotation at all, and in fact that is not in the least what I was implying.  Read twice, reply once.

I will say this.

Back when I started riding women riding was as rare as hen's teeth, and the ones that did ride...I'm not going there.  Today, for example, when I ride Seymour....I sure wish I was in the dating scene today.  Finding a biker chick as another half......guess I missed that window.

The wisdom Nouseforaname espouses does have some truth to it however.  The only one responsible for one's own happiness is themselves, and no one, no wife, girlfriend or whomever, is going to do that in the end.  But self fulfillment surely will, and for a biker, there is no better fulfillment than satisfying rides.  And also, we never know what the future holds; maybe in 5 years you can't ride anymore due to health or whatever.  Carp Diem.

I just recently bought a Chromag Surface Ti, and have it built up and have put 3 rides on it, and it is better than expected.  There is something about a Chromag that transcends simple material.....it rides in a way nothing else does.  You can tell it has soul.  And I have had boutique bikes for 20 years and know what to expect....it is all in the details.  Yes, some will say they are expensive, for a hardtail, but quality costs money and believe me you get what you pay for.  If only I could find a way to not have to work and ride every day....working on it......

Those Mavic 321 rims I ran for many years.  521 Ceramic when I was using XTR V brakes.  In speaking of the Honda, I wonder why they made it and then POOF.  Nothing.  Seems like a waste of R+D dollars to do something so good then not produce a product.  Patent violation perhaps?

Posted by: tungsten

Posted by: blackfly

every problem in society we have can be distilled in its purest form to overpopulation.

Nope. Red herring. Throughly debunked.

Try capitalism.

https://www.sierraclub.org/washington/blog/2020/01/overpopulation-myth-and-its-dangerous-connotations

I agree about the capitalism part but thinking the Sierra Club has debunked a critical thread in human issues is BS.   They will push any green agenda at any cost (and like any group, the more converts the more clout in implementing said ideas).  More people equals more use equals more resources (and concomitantly the RATE of use).  Takeover of land for habitation, use of land for growth of food crops.......

Overpopulation as the root cause is labelled as a red herring since fixing the problem would lead to issues no one REALLY wants to tackle (whom lives, whom dies etc.....).  I am sure the NWO has already figured this out.  Notice how little help Africa gets compared to Japan in time of crisis?  In the seven years I studied Cell Biology and Genetic Engineering at university no course I took in environmental science or ecology denied the population issue as being number one.  Every one agreed the fix was too sensitive an issue to address.  

The real question is how many would have to be removed to help the problems.....of course, if we found another habitable planet and could get there it would help the issue, wouldn't it.  But we spent out time, resources and brainpower not on space travel but nuclear weapons.  IMO we have missed the boat.  If the issue of recolonization was addressed in the 60s instead of the fear of the Reds there is no telling where we would be now, or the solutions we would of found.

If I remember right the Sierra Club wants to get all mountain bikers out of the back woods in the US.  Strange reference to bring up considering the host of this forum.

Most people are blissfully ignorant of the real impact humanity has on this planet, especially if it is not directly affecting them.   I saw the doc a while ago and I cannot recall if they went into the population debate but if you want to be really disarming at a gathering bring this up and point out how most every problem in society we have can be distilled in its purest form to overpopulation.  And what are we doing about it?  Nothing.  In fact:  you need a license for most everything, even to get married, but not to have children or have any qualifier to bring one (or two) into the world.  Every time you have sushi ask what the styrofoam boxes do, or the mining for the metals for ours bikes......on it goes.

The part at the end about the monkeys is truly disturbing, and I am thankful for the filming of it to hit home the real impact.  Brought me to tears, in fact.

My late mother was a true Newfie.  She was born before NFLD confederated into Canada, and I have pictures of her as a youngster with snow as high as the telephone poles.  In fact, in old newfie houses, there were 2 front doors.  One on the ground floor and another on the second floor in case the ground floor got buried.  They use to dig tunnels to school and used Newfie dogs as sled pullers to get around.  I would not of believed it but I went to NFLD many times as a youngster and saw it for real. Went one Easter and there were icebergs in the harbour (she lived in Cape Broyle).  People here in Lotusland think a foot of snow every once in a while is a big deal.......I must say I do miss the ride right now......In rural NFLD the quad and snowmobile is more valuable than the car or truck.  You can guess why.   Interestingly enough, you would think that there would be more issues of SAD or seasonal affective disorder, but I have been told the bright Newfie outlook came out as a way to combat this.  Explains a lot.

Posted by: skooks

Posted by: blackfly

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

I am super curious about your last sentence. If someone was coming up fast behind you on a (pedal) bike, would you let them pass? Why would it be different if they were on a moped?  I would much rather have them pass me than have to listen to the motor all the way up the hill.

Well, if someone is on a pedal bike and going to pass me on No Quarter or GSM on the up, bravo.  Obviously better cardio and legs than I, and this is from hard work on the up.  I find the idea of an E bike on a up climbing trail the epitome of what is wrong with the concept.  

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: blackfly

I ride Fromme regularly and see at least one or two zip up the road when I get out of D'yer Maker. I think since most new initiates that would buy them are likely to find the sticker shock too much to handle it would be for a limited few, but of the ones I have seen on Fromme: either older types that would be inclined to buy one; a noob with no idea (or whom zips up only to ride the road back down........seen this twice) or riders that motor up as fast as possible to avoid any heckling as they know acceptance is not common. Eagle, for example, allows motos there......have at it. But not Cypress, Fromme, Seymour, Burke or the Woodlot.

I ride mine at Burke and the Woodlot regularly. I ride a red Commencal, introduce yourself sometime.

Oh, and feel free to heckle, I find it laughable.

I ride Burke regularly myself.  I would of thought the sign at the gun club/yellow gate clearly showing no motorized vehicles would of been clear enough.  Guess not.

I ride Fromme regularly and see at least one or two zip up the road when I get out of D'yer Maker.  I think since most new initiates that would buy them are likely to find the sticker shock too much to handle it would be for a limited few, but of the ones I have seen on Fromme:  either older types that would be inclined to buy one; a noob with no idea (or whom zips up only to ride the road back down........seen this twice) or riders that motor up as fast as possible to avoid any heckling as they know acceptance is not common.  Eagle, for example, allows motos there......have at it.   But not Cypress, Fromme, Seymour, Burke or the Woodlot.

Amen.

As I have always contended, if you cannot do the up, you cannot do the down.  The down is no more easy, strenuous or requiring any less physical demand or tone.  Moreover, if the ebike allows one to further, but not faster, what happens if there is a "mechanical"  (or now, "electrical") far in the middle of nowhere?  Hope you have the legs and lungs to pedal or push it out.......

Don't try passing me on the uphill, EVER.

Having ridden Fromme for 39 years I can tell you that the mantra was always about "whatever do what was necessary for the up to get to the down".  This meant the service road, which is nice now, but has not always been so.  Yes it is boring.  Yes it is mandatory, but if you wanted to go down, it was either that or push up St. Georges or other (for me for a long time I pushed up Lower Crippler/Oilcan and then went up the road).  Not only the bike but where I parked mandated that route.

The climbing trail is a Godsend.  First, it is not really easy, so long as you are not on an Ebike (not here, folks) and it essentially separates the mountain.  Those that ride the West and those whom ride the East (and obviously park at the parking lot).  I notice a distinct difference in the rider.

No, the climb is not perfect.  I find it a bit long winded and tedious at times.  But if you think about a more direct route, whom among you would envy a 30 degree or 45 degree climb?  And the scenery is nice.  Very lucky that we live where we do.  It could easily be desert.

And the climbing trail eases pressure off of the East side, not only in terms of parking but usage.  I remember not long ago that parking on Dempsey/Braemar was easy, no other people around.  Funny and fast how times change.  

I remember the old days of the tech uphill of Old Buck.  I don't mind the work of the up for the downhill but not at the expense of the downhill.  You want tech uphill?  Try Eagle and go up the Lungbuster.  Tell me how it goes.  Even Burke is much more civil today; at one time babyheads was the coin of the realm and the brutality of the steepness was an afterthought.  And I saw a group of gentlemen in their 60s do it (on hardtails) many years ago.  I couldn't imagine it at the time.  

Related, we have it easy and thanks to all for making the climbing trail happen.  Best thing to happen to Fromme in a very long time.

You yield to the uphill so long as they are earning it.

Posted by: cerealkilla_

Posted by: norona

Posted by: Ouch

I think it's critical that a decision be made either way, sooner than later. I don't think it's fair to everyone involved to let this linger on.

Already been made class 1 e-mtb are classified as mtb. 🤙

Not entirely correct. Class 1 e-mtb are classified as Class 1 e-mtb, and are thus prohibited from a limited set of riding areas such as Lord of the Squirrels, and certain private land trails managed by the Kootenay Columbia Trail Society/ KCTS (due to issues with insurance liabilities). There may be other areas added to this list as land-owners, insurance bodies, and wildlife managers take stock of emtbs and what they entail. Important to consider that it doesn't matter if these groups are correct in any assumptions they make regarding emtb, only that they have the power to influence restrictions. So I would think how you present yourself matters more than ever. 

The recent decision on provincial recreation trails is a progression and really did help clarify some important issues, but there is still lots to figure out.....especially for clubs that have insurance and liability at stake. Of course, I would expect that people interested in promotion of emtbs would be very active in helping sort these things out. 

As for riding UP tech trails, that sound great....assuming they are uphill tech trails. Of course, riding up downhill trails (designated as downhill primary on Section 56 permits) seems like a questionable idea, given the potential for conflict or collision with downhill riders. It is one thing for a downhill rider to see and avoid a hiker, but quite another to prepare for an avoid riders coming uphill toward them. Who gets the right of way?...the uphill emtb rider with his or her thumb on the boost button, or the downhill rider committed to their line? Surely ensuring safety and harmonious trail interactions takes precedence over espousing the virtues of a technology without consideration of the implications of its use. This (uphill downhill on the same trail) is an example. I have heard repeatedly that "emtbs are mtbs" yet at the same time they can be used in very different ways, have very different capabilities, and are assigned a distinct classification by the province that "acoustic" mtbs do not share.  There is an established flow of traffic that has thus far served our trails and users well, and if that is to be upended by introduction of a new classification of vehicle, it should be discussed. 

I will note that neither of the mentioned points aim to belittle emtbs or those that ride them, and are not calling for restrictions. Instead, they are simply what myself, and apparently some others see as legitimate concerns that should be addressed in order to maintain harmonious trails and access. I am really interested in hearing some good ideas and input on these, and less interested in more marketing of all that is great and rad.

I would think that the most vocal of the emtb promoters would have some thoughtful ideas for these matters, and would want to avoid stooping to engage others in name-calling.  I mean, it is only going to be harder to win over either customers or allies by dismissing concerns as "the same fruit loops on here wasting time at work making up the dumbest shit imaginable" while not contributing to a thoughtful conversation about legitimate concerns. So I pose it to you Norona, three questions:

1) How do you think we should we manage the intersection of uphill emtb traffic and downhill (emtb and mtb) traffic on downhill primary trails. By this, I mean trails that ordinarily, the vast majority of people would not ride up, but which become suddenly climbable with the addition of a battery and motor?

2) Are you, or any sellers or makers of emtbs making progress with or contributing to the discussions with the insurance companies and private landowners who have concerns about emtbs?  Clearly we don't want such liabilities hanging over the heads of our clubs or the security of our trail access, and clarification would likely lead to more successful integration and ensured access. For example, KCTS is in a real pickle with the recent provincial decision, and want to take steps to integrate ebikes for all their positives, but remain hamstrung by insurance and liability impasses. Do you have thoughts on this?

3) What is your analysis of the recent provincial decision on recreation trails? Specifically, do you have any thoughts on challenges associated with enforcement of appropriate types of equipment and trail access (pg 10 on the policy)... What do you think needs to happen  (and what needs to be avoided) during the stated "test period" of 2018 to 2021 (pg 11) for this policy to roll into an enduring state of trail access that works for everyone?

Personally, I like the policy, but I  note it remains wide open for significant policy adjustment depending on how things roll for the next few years. I also think it misses a few things (such as point #1).

Wonderful post.  I have a few things to add, and Norona, listen up....

In the past, under NORBA and most every other mountain biking club, you ALWAYS yielded to the uphill on the given fact they were "given er" up.  I suppose the ebike takes the effort part of that out of the equation, so if you are on an ebike and going uphill, they I don't have to yield, nor would I since you can easily stop and start with no effort.  So don't expect any courtesy and don't think ebikes aren't easy to spot (or hear).

Given the fact in the province of BC, to be specific, the fire danger every spring/summer is getting worse or more severe, I wonder how the land managers and the government to be sure are going to think about a bike with a battery powered system that provides an ignition source.  With a regular bike you could reasonably rule out such risk unless the person has a lens, lighter, flint or other, but this could apply to all outdoor users.  Ebikes by very nature have an electrically charged device and a circuit, which could either short out, or the battery fail, and in either case cause a fire.  Think about that point for a moment Norona.  Would you want a major forest fire on your hands due to your new toy?  I don't get that fear from my Chromag...

Lastly, just to make this post brief, consider the fact that an ebike could make for a longer ride in the backwoods.  As with anything, the battery can fail.  Like lights.  What do you suppose would happen if some noob went for some "epic" ride only to find the battery assistance failed, and the spare battery (if one) didn't work either due to some electrical issue.  I am assuming that the fix is something only a shop could do or the manufacturer.  So now you are 20k+ out in the backwoods thinking you could easily get back home in no time (more importantly, no effort) and now you have to hoof, pedal and grunt every km when you couldn't do it in the first place.  I wonder when the first lawsuit will be filed on something like this...of course the bike manufacturer would most likely win....but there is always precedent.  

The more problems you solve, the more you create.  

But from my point of view, there was no problem to being with......so why add problems?  Believe me, if some ebike starts or is the cause of a fire some year, maybe this year, I don't even want to think where this is going to go.  And since carbon fibre is the new shit for frame material, which is combustable, unlike steel, aluminum or titanium.......in my opinion it is just a matter of time.  Look how many fires are started from the most innocent or small of sources.....

God...I hope I don't have to regret saying this.

Ran into a guy at the end of my ride today on Fromme going up Dreamweaver on a Ebike.  Told him he was not welcome, and everyone I meet gets the same lip.  If you can't go up you can't go down, and never was there any assist in the up with Fromme.  Saw an older couple exit Braemar....both on Ebikes.......older ones I guess I could give a pass but the slippery slope...

Since when was mountain biking the Shore a right rather than a privilege you had to earn?  Ah....age of entitlement.    

I suppose self policing is the only way this is going to work itself out..that is, if we all as a group agree Ebikes are wrong and not welcome, then those whom that have them will eventually move somewhere else or not ride (which is most likely for the best).  I don't like them and think that they are cheating, and I call the users of them out.  Shame works if it is continuous.  My latest bike was bought on the premise it makes the up easier (hardtail) and I am under no illusion that there is going to be a day when I can't do this any more.  But until then it will be earning my gain.