GordB profile

The best advocate is an advocate that is informed on both sides of an issue.

This allows for a conversation to take place that is based on as much fact as possible, and not emotion.

IMO the best way forward is to present a united informed group of riders within the NSMBA context to carry on this conversation. AlanB is but one voice but we need to have other supporting voices and energy provided to this cause!

I will do my part as much as I can. In order to be informed… we need to read. Yea, boring… but, out of effort comes results. So everyone that wants to help needs to go through the link from AlanB on the Overview of the Upper Lands.

So here are my notes of important details we need to be aware of:

The PDF of “Guiding West Vancouver's Upper Lands - newsletter”- is about the open houses and general info…

The About The Upper Lands (ATUL) – On Overview IS KEY to our informed participation inside this process:

1. ATUL Map 1 – Key here is that most all mountain biking trails are, or funnel, into BPP land. There is a paragraph here about “Possible 1200 Foot Contour Variation” This is KEY for our interests!

2. ATUL Map 2 – This shows the overall study area circumference and the line going through the middle at a diagonal is the 1200ft line… (which is not red like the legend says it is). This 1200ft line has its genesis in a 1950’s community plan as being the arbitrary line for development based on snow and water/services costing provisioning. Times have changed, the snow line is higher… the DWV could change the 1200ft line or vary it… a trade off for something else… what could that be? Maybe our mountain biking trails… hint hint!

3. ATUL Map 3 – Preamble indicates: “Most municipally owned lands above the 1,200 foot contour line are designated as Conservation and Recreation. Private lands that are not surrounded by municipally owned lands above the 1,200 foot contour are designated as General Urban.”

4. ATUL Map 4 – This is a very important map. Preamble indicates: “Most of the land below 1,200 feet is zoned RS-2, which is single family housing at just over 2 (2.17) units per acre.” Now you see why the historical 1200ft level is important. Review Map 2- see where 1200ft is? See where the mountain biking trails are?” Yea… collision of uses! Map 4 shows this all very well: the green Community Use, the yellow Residential Use. See where are trails are, and where they end up? This is why we are an important piece of this overall conversation. The KEY PART to this map and our interests is the DOTTED LINE indicated in the Legend as the “1200ft Contour Variation”. More on this in my synthesis.

5. ATUL Map 5 and 7 – Sensitive Ecosystem map stuff… review for awareness understanding that this is a consideration obviously in the whole plan.

6. ATUL Map 6 – This is important… this indicates what can be built on what slope gradient. The flatter the slope, the more development (duh)… so steeper crazier trails… mmmm… but… all, if not most, mountain biking trails lead to the flatter slope… leads into the proposed development… a problem we have.

Synthesis: Looking at the maps; understanding the future that development WILL HAPPEN; reading about the 1200ft Variation; and it is obvious that there are trade off conversations that will occur.

To protect our lower trails from development due to the zoning, ownership, and slope gradient… and the reference from DWV that there could be possible “above 1200ft contour development concessions”… to save lower slopes that are of value to the overall community- we need to be a united group advocating for our quality of life of what makes these lands so special, not only for us, but for the wider mountain biking community in general.

Not only that, but we spend money. They are building a little shopping center at the lower hairpin- where we no doubt will spend money on water, bars, coffee, tea… ect. We will help make the community system work. We will only be there in the future if our trails existed taking us to the bottom!!!

Let DWV discuss with BPP the 1200ft Variation… but for DWV to be interested in doing that… WE MUST SHOW DWV that these LOWER LANDS have COMMUNITY VALUE… but also, there is the economic spin off of COMMUNITY VIABILITY of the shopping centers and overall area.

Be a part of our voice. The DWV is giving us this OPPORTUNITY.

Do not waste it. You will regret it.

I will be at the March meeting.

I am with mightyted… I think helmut's are saving too many stupid people.

wow… do you see that new secret trail!!! awesome zone!

We are building the foundations for a cooperative builder's stakeholder group for specifically the Cypress trails.

This group will be those of us who want to maintain a future of mountain biking within Cypress… so that we will not have to deal with a situation like this again.

April 1 is the next Upper Lands Working Group meeting in West Van. I will be there to observe. I encourage you all to consider going then you will really see the true issue we all are facing.

Deadend- I understand you are upset and raging. Fine. I get it.

Your emotion is understandable, but it makes no difference with what we are about to do, or the conversations we are about to have.

I think a consensus is building for Cypress's future. Cheers and best of luck with your future trail endeavour's on other mountain slopes. I hope you have lots of fun on the stuff you build for you.

Cheers

NNL was never a permanent plan, we never expected it to last forever, we put together the most fun we could think of and planned to just ride it until the development took over. Never planned to fight with anyone about what should be done with their land or making that trail permanent. …
Bash away f%^kers!

I think this is where some of the confusion is… with respect to builder's intention. It could be inferred from that statement that "never a permanent plan" was in fact building whatever, however, get our smiles, knowing it was going to get destroyed deliberately doing what you wanted despite other suggestions.

Let us not confuse "permanence" with "sanctioned" since "sanctioned" infers cooperation to building standards to allow for insurance ect - building standards which the landowner's have communicated, via Alan, to the builders.

"Putting it together for the most fun until development took over" my personal viewpoint is this: that is the old school early DVD's attitude of "pre-sanctioned" trails one suggestion is maybe build where there is no development risk which would take over your incredible passion and skill. It would be, like you say in an earlier post your private playground. So be it.

We need to bridge this divide and save what we have now on Cypress by getting on the same page. We need to try to understand all viewpoints and get to a middle spot. The best comment I can make here is not any one of us will get 100% of what we personally, selfishly, want and I am NOT pointing the fingers to only the builders I am also including the desires of the riders, the desires of DWV, the desires of BPP, the desires of the hikers the desires of the citizens of West Van- this is the conversation- all at the table will need to bend to reach a consensus.

NNL was the catalyst for this, maybe so and that is how I look at it. The builders' have incredible skill and passion. And maybe this is how we move forward, NNL gave us an important catalyst, at these builders' loss of personal effort and passion.

The Upper Lands Working Group is an important table to be involved with and we NEED, in my personal view, to be involved and on the same page with one another.

I think at this point we move forward with what we have learned from this experience.

You know Kevin, (my name is Gord) if you had gone to the NSMBA AGM maybe you did (and if you did then you already know that your comment is moot ) but that trail design, back in the day, did what it had to do and even Digger and the Program Director of the NSMBA indicated at the AGM- if my recollection is absolutely correct- that today's trail design now has superseded that initial foray into the unknowns of that time.

NNL was not CBC. CBC could never by NNL.

Fromme is not Seymour.
Seymour is not Cypress.

It is not about blissful sustainability. Is is about maturity with working with others.

In the last NSMBA AGM it was said to those Cypress builders in attendance to keep it on the ground or else it was gone. I witnessed the statements.

The Notice was given. And now, NNL is gone since the suggestion was not addressed with integrity. All bikers and builders lose because of this situation- not just the builder.

Deliberately making a trail knowing that it will be torn out is irresponsible and selfish- and impacts all of us too.

For those in the know, please show up to the meeting. Those in the know understand what I am saying.

This cannot happen anymore if we want to save what is up there now. We need to start being part of long term solutions versus short term desires.

:shhh:

via Imgflip Meme Maker

Thanks Ripper for the info. I will reserve my comments to this to Tuesday.

Can someone confirm that NNL was destroyed today? I am away in the States. Should never have mentioned the Ferris Wheel btw…

The Fromme Ride for today Wed Mar 16 is cancelled due to weather. @6:05 Am…

Edited Please confirm scot dank- as I am sitting in my grey SUV at Coleman and mountain hwy right now at 7:05 to catch you

Edited- Ok good- you had good sense not to go Scotdunk- pouring rain here- confident you did not get past me since no one was with a bike, with a car/bus. 7:52am

Heya, there are four of us pedalling up Fromme from the "yeawedoo" meet up group tomorrow before starting with our lives. If you know where that is, we meet at the second yellow gate by the water tower and message post at 8AM. From parking on Mountain Highway at Coleman (you cannot park higher up Mountain Highway than that) it is a 20 min pedal to the second gate typically. We are taking our "small" AM bikes for this because of pedalling. Message me privately if you are interested. If you are not familiar with Fromme the hardest part is getting to the second gate- the road is steep! If you cannot make it there is always next time.