Posted by: Endurimil
Posted by: chupacabra
Posted by: Mic
I see where you are going with this post but I have to disagree with the Christian part...not only Christianity but basically (and really simplistic and over generalising) all monotheistic religions share that sentiment of good vs evil, the idea of sinning, hell, the earth as something that has to be controlled, an idea that originally came from Persia, I think (too lazy and tired to check) with Zoroastra and his followers. But the Greeks and Romans were similar - one big issue in all of this is the notion that most "civilizations" were based on the idea of Patriarchy, with the males holding all that power in a political and religious sense, whereas most pagan and animistic societies were based on either an equal share of power or with a stronger female aspect, since the earth has always been regarded as a sacred feminine, search for info on archaeologist Marija Gimbutas if you want to dig deeper.
I just meant that before Christianity was spread into western Europe the various "Pagan" religions were more connected to nature and didn't elevate mankind as the ruler of Earth in the same way Christianity does. The bible gives man domain over all living things.
For those who aren't aware the term Pagan is a term created in 4th Century BC by Christianity to describe anyone who didn't follow the Christian religion. And the Celts where very connected to nature with believing in spirits in water, trees, and so on. The Lady in The Lake of the fictional King Arthur is derived from that.
Unfortunately have seen current mindset around things when it comes to old customs and religious practices in negative forms towards non North American First Nations. A few years ago had to deal with an inlaw during a discussion about old Scottish aka Scottish Gaelic And Celtic culture who tried to claim two things. First was that one had to be genetically Scottish to wear a kilt claiming cultural appropriation. Then got upset when explained and showed her that she was wrong. She then changed direction when someone mentioned about water spirits and she went on about how only NA First Nations can believe in spirits and deities in tress, water, horses, and so on. Hinting at cultural appropriation Again had to explain that actually many ethnic groups around the world who had no contact at that point with NA First Nations had their version of Animism as a religion.
Interestingly when a year ago chatting about similar stuff to a rider I know who is a Mohawk from the Tyendinaga and when I mentioned had dug into this a wee bit further when I mentioned before Christianity that my ancestors believed in water spirits, same in trees and animals. And so on. He wasn't surprised. And agreed that Christianity and the English did a good job of wiping that all out. Yeah....nothing like marching out a few non believer Scots at low tide, shove them in holes in the sand, bury to neck, and sit back to watch the high tide kill them for not converting to Christianity to send a message yours is a benevolent religion.
And the more one digs into history.....There was alot of bad shite done before 1689 by command of the English Crown in the name of one god. Like Edward Ist conquest of Wales then his orders in 1277 to colonize Wales. So evicted farmers and so on to achieve that aim.
Yes, I agree - even the Celtic concept of how a land flourished under a just an rightful king is interesting and was taken up by Christianity, but is a pagan concept.
But the same goes not only for the Celts (British Isles and France, Spain, the Alps and northern Italy) but the Slavic tribes (eastern Europe), and other people like those we often name "Germanic" tribes of central Europe.