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mudhoney's posts

395 posts found

Oct. 7, 2021, 11:05 a.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Seymour Trail Use Survey

Posted by: heckler

That zone under review has so far been the easiest to build new trails and features due to land-manager disengagement.  That is changing now that RSTBC is managing the land on behalf of CMHC. 

RSTBC also is newly responsible for Woodlot.   Who has seem the great permitted work @FVMBA had done with @trailslayer on Gold?  Big features, black with double black options.  See Insta for  bangers   

Is this something we as riders support?  Or should the zone be made hiking and dog walking only?      

Its also a zone directly beside Metro, who is very against difficult trails (Lola, Aftertaste - closed; Cambodia - chopped).  

Bitch about traffic elsewhere, get your feedback to RSTBC about the CMHC lands asap, survey closes soon.

Yep, for all of the land managers I've had opportunity to work with, RST is definitely the best of the bunch, though it does depend a bit on the local staff.

Oct. 1, 2021, 9:44 a.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Well that's disappointing

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: heckler

Engaged members get it.

https://nsmba.ca/national-day-for-truth-and-reconciliation/

That's not bad, but honestly I'd like to see more.

Agree on seeing more. Actions, not just words.

PORCA partnered with Indigenous Women Outdoors to support an Indigenous woman interested in becoming a PMBIA Level 1 certified mountain bike coach and funded an Introduction to Mountain Biking Program for women and girls from Líl̓wat Nation.

SORCA supports a Squamish Nation driven mountain bike mentorship program, and I believe they also hire Squamish Nation youth as part of their summer trail crew (or have done so in the past).

Chilliwack Park Society supports a youth mtb and trail building program with Sto:lo Youth

Sept. 9, 2021, 8:02 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Canada Votes 2021

Posted by: Couch_Surfer

Just had a canvasser for the Conservatives at my door.  Kid was barely in university.  I don't understand anyone that young thinking the Cons are working for their future.

Apparently he did all right as there seem to be more than a few new signs for the conservative candidate in the 'hood

July 29, 2021, 4:53 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Fraser Valley conditions. 2020.

The BCIT Forest Society is also asking folks not to ride at the Woodlot.

FVRD has closed Sumas Mountain Regional Park (only the FVRD regional park trails are closed, so most MTB trails presently still open).

City of Mission has also closed Heritage Mountain trails; the closure of Red & Bear is part of full closure of the whole Mission Tree Farm, so access to Stave is limited to only those with campsite bookings or going to the boat launch.

https://www.fvmba.com/trail-closures-and-notices/

June 28, 2021, 2:49 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: BC COVID Restrictions

Posted by: PaulB

Posted by: syncro

There's been research lately that shows the forest is an organism, and that trees communicate with each other via the organic layers and their root systems. Here's a fascinating article if you're interested: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-whispering-trees-180968084/ .

Not just communicate, but share resources.  I've been fascinated by this since stumbling across that article last year. There is a prof at UBC who has been studying it as well:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/04/993430007/trees-talk-to-each-other-mother-tree-ecologist-hears-lessons-for-people-too

I just finished reading Simard's book and have also read Wohlleben's. Both are excellent. Really enjoyed Simard's discussions of her research and the system's thinking approach. And all her research was done here in BC too, so made it seem more relatable to me. And fascinating to get a little glimpse into forestry decisions.

June 14, 2021, 7:03 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Revitalizing the CBC trail on Seymour

Posted by: SixZeroSixOne

Done...not sure what Metros processes are.

Do they walk thru the trail themselves and detail the specific work they want a trail builder to do, or do they sub-contract out the entire trail upkeep to a trail builder and take a more hands-off approach?

Anyway, I've asked whether they can share the plans for CBC- I don't want to go in guns blazing to start off with!

The processes Metro uses are varied.

They sometimes do their own walk-throughs that are primarily focused on environmental impact of the trail, but also safety, and signage. 

For trails permitted with NSMBA (TNT/Cabin, Corkscrew, Dale's, Forever After, High School, west end of Bridle Path), the NSMBA builders conduct their own walk-through and submit a trail assessment and work plan to Metro for the trails they are responsible for (e.g. I look after Dale's and Corkscrew and Bridle). We then do a walk through with a Metro staff member to discuss the proposed work plan and make adjustments if appropriate. The NSMBA builders then can do the work approved in the work plan and submit work reports as the work is completed. Usually if replacing a wood feature, this merits its own separate walk through to discuss the design and sourcing of wood etc (e.g. there was a bridge at the top of Ned's that a few of us replaced a year or so ago).

Sometimes Metro also hires contractors, both to do trail work and to complete trail assessments and work plans. Metro isn't always very good at communicating with the NSMBA.

I'm not on the NSMBA board anymore, but I do know that IMBA Canada was hired to create a proposal for TNT/Cabin. And recently IMBA, Metro, and the NSMBA builders did a walk through for it.

I'm not sure exactly what process they have set up for CBC, so I think that's an excellent question to have asked them. :-)

June 14, 2021, 6:47 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Revitalizing the CBC trail on Seymour

Posted by: icullis

I've sent in an email...I've emailed in the past...really a giant black hole.

I'm concerned though, especially after seeing this article; https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/motorcycle-club-ousted-out-of-popular-metro-vancouver-park-1.6063131. 

It seems like Metro Parks really doesn't care about longstanding relationships. They are more than happy to dump partners and move on...I'm not really sure why they don't actually engage with their constituents and partners? It would be great to hear from NSMBA, to know more about what is going on or what the plan is...

Also, the division of Metro that NSMBA deals with for Seymour Trails is LSCR (Lower Seymour Conservation Reserve), which manages the watershed, and is separate from Metro Vancouver Parks.

June 11, 2021, 8:40 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Revitalizing the CBC trail on Seymour

Posted by: bingobus

I'm a little lost here. Dales connector as I know it is the trail from just above power lines that lets you avoid Upper Dales (I joke but honestly could not figure out why it got worked on until I realised people might want to ride it in the other direction) yes? But what are you calling "connector connector"?

Yep, as Syncro says,the "connector connector" just cuts of the last corner of Upper Dale's to make it easier for folks to turn toward Dale's Connector and ride up it (so they don't have to ride the rest of Dale's.. previously folks would miss the sharp left turn and then end up stopped and blocking the trail to the rest of Dale's. It had previously been roughly cut in for BCBR but Metro initially didn't want it to be a permanent option. The bit of Dale's Connector that it bypasses remains open for folks riding down Dale's Connector and for runner's who come up Dale's as it's probably not a good idea to encourage foot traffic up Upper Dale's.

According to Trailforks, the majority of traffic on Dale's Connector is uphill (80%ish).

A few of us proposed building a trail connecting over to Upper Severed (rather than having to fully climb back up and then bomb down the Powerline). Ride upper Dale's, take the Connector Connector, pedal up a little, and cruise on singletrack right to the Upper Severed trailhead.

June 11, 2021, 3:35 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Revitalizing the CBC trail on Seymour

Posted by: bingobus

Posted by: taprider

This is what I saw in the 2018 plan

"Dale’s Trail Improvements:
Consider upgrading lower sections to flow better with
section 1 of Dale’s to provide a cohesive user experience
from top to bottom."

I think upgrading Section 1 to flow better with lower sections of Dales to provide a cohesive user experience from top to bottom would be a lot easier and more cost effective.

Riders can get a more consistent experience by exiting Upper Dale's to Dale's connector and then head anywhere else in the network, but it wasn't really a good option in 2018 when Metro published their plan.

Since then, Dale's "Connector Connector" was properly built and Dale's Connector rerouted to make it a friendlier climb for those who wanted to ride Upper Dale's but not continue down the rest of Dale's. Metro didn't permit the Connector Connector work until NSMBA had an agreement with RST for the CMHC lands because Metro felt they couldn't have a trail of theirs connect to a trail (Dale's Connector) managed by another land manager.

June 10, 2021, 6:08 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Revitalizing the CBC trail on Seymour

Posted by: SixZeroSixOne

What's your source on Metro making middle and lower Dale's more like upper?

If you received today's email from NSMBA, it included a link to the 242* page PDF report and its mentioned in there. Quiet day in work so I skimmed all 242 pages.

Also mentioned that the want to close off the Enquist Route (Pinch Flat Alley) above the CBC exit to discourage access in that area yet the image above clearly shows a climbing trail up to the top of CBC (which would be nice).

The other items of note where "upgrades" to Cabin and Neds but, luckily, they are lower priority than CBC, which is one of their top priority items, and the pace at which Metro Van moves means I'll likely be far too old to ride anymore but the time they are landscaped.

*I guess the consultants got paid based on volume of output 🙄

Someother useful info about a "hiking only" area

Ah yes, the strategic plan from 2018... this is "old news"... and where Metro chose to ignore the online submissions to the public consultation because respondents were primarily mountain bikers (as told to NSMBA reps in a meeting with Metro) and most of the in person surveys were set up at trailheads that mountain bikers don't use as much, thus failing to capture input from mountain bikers that access the trail network from other trailheads.

So far they haven't made any move to alter Dale's; or at least, as the currently permitted builder on it, I haven't heard any more recent plans (but Metro is notoriously bad at communicating, and the NSMBA is also slow in passing along information to builders). There was a tentative plan once to reroute the section that's close to the creek (to higher elevation and farther from the creek), but it's only ever been talk.

Edit to add - changes to Cabin/TNT will probably come sooner. NSMBA is involved in this process, at lease somewhat. What's also frustrating is that rather than hire/work with NSMBA, Metro insists on hiring other non-local contractors (e.g. IMBA Canada was hired to consult on Cabin/TNT)

June 10, 2021, 1:22 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Revitalizing the CBC trail on Seymour

Posted by: taprider

Yes was wondering about that.

The plan shows a climbing near CBC , but not a climbing trail from Mushroom up to Pinch Flat Alley.

Also  they intend to make middle/lower Dales more like Upper Dales, which makes me sad since the existing Neds and middle/lower Dales are some of my favorite trails.

It looks like they took the trail survey info, where the majority of riders wanted easier flow trails, to be the raison d'etre for their master plan.  So that means that for the most dedicated and invested riders (the ones that like old school, more challenging, and/or more natural trails) left out of the plan.  No wonder, there is so much unauthorized trail building or riding "off the map".

What's your source on Metro making middle and lower Dale's more like upper?

May 19, 2021, 10:07 a.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Lost: Watch on Seymour

One was found on Bridle this morning... you can message klez (Dave) on Trailforks, and I've also passed along the link to this thread to him, so he's aware.

https://www.trailforks.com/report/1598641/

May 12, 2021, 11:47 a.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: Can you use Trailforks and keep rides from appearing on the Heat Map by marking as private...

Posted by: andy-eunson

What is the purpose of a heat map anyway? I kind of think they shouldn’t exist. Sometimes they show non biking trails that were input incorrectly. For example the Spearhead traverse is or was on the Strava heat map as a bike route. Clearly someone on a ski tour had their tracking unit set for a bike.

Pretty useful for trail organizations in a number of ways. One example - key part of advocacy is trying to convince local governments (districts, municipalities, cities) or grant agencies to provide funding for maintenance of the trails. And being able to show how much use a trail /trail system gets and how that is increasing overtime is very valuable. Obviously there's various ways to get that data but a heatmap provides a great visual.

May 7, 2021, 1:05 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: To the ass-hat on Bridle today at 5pm...rant-warning

Posted by: LoamtoHome

thanks for chiming in.... different situations to a certain point as they have the same land manager and management plan but I'm happy the unsanctioned stuff is kept off TF for Seymour and NSMBA is not looking after it.

agreed

one key difference is the answer to "what's the risk of the trail being shut down (or made no bikes/hiking only) if it's listed publicly?"

May 7, 2021, 12:38 p.m.
Posts: 407
Joined: July 8, 2005
Re: To the ass-hat on Bridle today at 5pm...rant-warning

Posted by: LoamtoHome

Posted by: heckler

Cool. You're informed. I was only getting nyself informed. Thanks for the links.

Trailforks shows all trails as unsanctioned and without a trail association on Burke BC Parks. Its an uphill battle for a few dedicated volunteers to change that They can all use our support via paid memberships

https://torca.ca/trails/trail-building/

https://www.trailforks.com/region/burke-mountain/?activitytype=1&z=12.0&lat=49.32558&lon=-122.75096 shows TORCA as local trail association. Also says "BC Parks is currently drafting a Management Plan for the Park. TORCA is advocating for mountain bike trails to be included in the plan."

So if these trails are unsanctioned, why are they showing up in TF? TF not showing the unsanctioned ones in Seymour (which they shouldn't).  I'm very confused and feel there is a double standard.

"Unsanctioned" or "Unauthorized" generally means that there's no official recognition of the trails by the relevant land manager / land owner. Sometimes these are "secret" trails (and in the case of some Seymour trails, ones you can get fined for riding), but in many cases there are trails that have existed for many years and the land manager / trail association don't have an agreement for them, the trails have been appearing on maps for years and are well known to the public. Often (e.g. the case with Burke, thanks to the awesome advocacy work of TORCA) there is ongoing work to get the trails officially recognized. Makes sense to have them on TF but with note that they are not authorized. Not really a double standard, but different situations. Trail orgs have admin access to hide/delete trails if they are sensitive, so often what appears on TF is what the trail org has deemed to be ok.

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