mudhoney profile

Nice pic…got to get down there to ride in the summer!
Penny

Posted by: Ddean

All good points and our concerns too.

We worked hard to set expectations re continuing as black diamond trails instead of Cypress Espressos as we knew that this was going to come up repeatedly. The builders have been crystal clear and if you look at all of the press on the topic from NSMBA, it is clear too - these will remain black diamond trails. We are not naive and know that people say what they say to get things done, but we have done all we can to protect the difficult of the trails, recognizing that influences will come on later.

We wanted to make sure that parties were aligned on that topic so we used an existing sanctioned and authorized trail as an example of exactly what we mean when we say the trails will not be dumbed down. I wont say the name of the trail that we walked and discussed as the difficulty level and standard we need to maintain, but its starts with B and ends with oundary.

I wont speak for all involved but Im cautiously optimistic on where this is headed. I trust in the team. I trust in NSMBA to stay the course. Im stoked for the climb trail. Hopefully this doesnt turn into a mistake but it is, at the very least, a terrific test of what could be a great new path forward. At the bare minimum some trails on Cypress are protected from the future much better than they were. Kudos to BPP for playing such a strong role in moving this forward too.

Thanks for the additional info beyond the press release & what nsmba has said, and thank you to you and all involved for all of the trail/advocacy work.

Posted by: ben.rogers
If the DWV is so adamant in bringing in the NSMBA its possible that they have seen something like GSM to John Deer with the NSMBA label and are looking for another. (see climb trail installation).

Side note of clarification... Penny Lane/GSM was not  "nsmba" built, but built by independent builders (100% volunteer) and was not an "nsmba plan" (At the time the trails were built, there was no agreement with CMHC so nsmba had no authority for permission; yes, the trails are now authorized through an agreement between RST & nsmba). Likewise for John Deer

Posted by: syncro

Yeah I know, but there really isn't another way to express that my own experience/views differ from yours. It's highly possible for two people to share the same/similar experience and have different perceptions of it due to many variables. Your experience is valid, but saying that it differs from the experience of others doesn't mean it's any less important. I don't see it as less important and I'm sorry if you got that impression with what I said. Considering there is a strong female presence on the NSMBA board I'm going to guess that when you say gender discrimination issue that it's related to gender identity discrimination? For the general public that's an important distinction to make, for even though there is more general awareness of LGBTQ+ identities unfortunately most people simply do not understand the topic of gender identity and often have ignorant or negative opinions about that aspect of humanity.

From the outside I think the NSMBA has been very progressive in terms of talking about the many aspects of gender identity when compared to society as a whole, and this is especially true when it comes to the mtb'ing community considering its demographics. That said, I definitely agree with you that they could do more, but I wonder about their capacity to do more. What do you think they need to do internally first to create the type of equity you feel is needed? If you don't want to make this a public issue in this forum I get it, but feel free to send me a pm as I can be an ally for you. Gender identity and Indigeneity are two social issues that are important to me and ones I'd like to see the NSMBA take on, but I know that requires people, time and money and recognize that the NSMBA may not have them to give to those issues considering their main focus of trail advocacy.

Ok, some public thoughts in reply... I personally don't think that many of these issues can be separated, and from what I've read of your posts, I think you and I align pretty closely in many of our perspectives on these issues.

But it's important for an organization to treat it's employees with equity; this is where nsmba failed me and has refused to acknowledge that failure and the harm that resulted from it. Capacity doesn't have anything to do with that.

For me, saying more publicly of my experience, is likely to put me at risk of further harm...

Posted by: syncro

Yeah I know, but there really isn't another way to express that my own experience/views differ from yours. It's highly possible for two people to share the same/similar experience and have different perceptions of it due to many variables. Your experience is valid, but saying that it differs from the experience of others doesn't mean it's any less important. I don't see it as less important and I'm sorry if you got that impression with what I said. Considering there is a strong female presence on the NSMBA board I'm going to guess that when you say gender discrimination issue that it's related to gender identity discrimination? For the general public that's an important distinction to make, for even though there is more general awareness of LGBTQ+ identities unfortunately most people simply do not understand the topic of gender identity and often have ignorant or negative opinions about that aspect of humanity.

From the outside I think the NSMBA has been very progressive in terms of talking about the many aspects of gender identity when compared to society as a whole, and this is especially true when it comes to the mtb'ing community considering its demographics. That said, I definitely agree with you that they could do more, but I wonder about their capacity to do more. What do you think they need to do internally first to create the type of equity you feel is needed? If you don't want to make this a public issue in this forum I get it, but feel free to send me a pm as I can be an ally for you. Gender identity and Indigeneity are two social issues that are important to me and ones I'd like to see the NSMBA take on, but I know that requires people, time and money and recognize that the NSMBA may not have them to give to those issues considering their main focus of trail advocacy.

DM’d you. That’s a lot of assumptions, uh, incorrect ones.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: mudhoney

My personal opinion is that the NSMBA is more concerned with appearance and performance. My personal experience with the organization has been one of gender discrimination, and failure to acknowledge and address such issues.

Edit to add that I did not say that the NSMBA had done nothing, nor did I imply that. It's not just "can more be done" but more is needed.

For that to have appropriate context you need to include a time-frame of your personal experience with the NSMBA. I'm not trying to deny the validity of your experience, but my own experience and knowledge leads me to believe that the NSMBA has been fairly gender neutral for a long time.

2013 to present. 

Using this phrase: “I’m not trying to deny your experience, but…” does exactly what you say you’re not trying to do.

Posted by: earleb

Posted by: mudhoney

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: heckler

Engaged members get it.

https://nsmba.ca/national-day-for-truth-and-reconciliation/

That's not bad, but honestly I'd like to see more.

Agree on seeing more. Actions, not just words.

PORCA partnered with Indigenous Women Outdoors to support an Indigenous woman interested in becoming a PMBIA Level 1 certified mountain bike coach and funded an Introduction to Mountain Biking Program for women and girls from Líl̓wat Nation.

SORCA supports a Squamish Nation driven mountain bike mentorship program, and I believe they also hire Squamish Nation youth as part of their summer trail crew (or have done so in the past).

Chilliwack Park Society supports a youth mtb and trail building program with Sto:lo Youth

Did your statement "actions, not just words" mean to imply the NSMBA has done nothing?

The 2019 NSMBA Twenty Fiver donated $20 of each registration to the Indigenous Youth Mountain Bike Program.

In 2017 there was partnership the Tseil-Waututh to do some kids bike nights for their youth along with walk throughs to look at helping them upgrade trails on their land for the kids to have trails.

Can more be done? Always.

My personal opinion is that the NSMBA is more concerned with appearance and performance. My personal experience with the organization has been one of gender discrimination, and failure to acknowledge and address such issues.

Edit to add that I did not say that the NSMBA had done nothing, nor did I imply that. It's not just "can more be done" but more is needed.

Posted by: heckler

That zone under review has so far been the easiest to build new trails and features due to land-manager disengagement.  That is changing now that RSTBC is managing the land on behalf of CMHC. 

RSTBC also is newly responsible for Woodlot.   Who has seem the great permitted work @FVMBA had done with @trailslayer on Gold?  Big features, black with double black options.  See Insta for  bangers   

Is this something we as riders support?  Or should the zone be made hiking and dog walking only?      

Its also a zone directly beside Metro, who is very against difficult trails (Lola, Aftertaste - closed; Cambodia - chopped).  

Bitch about traffic elsewhere, get your feedback to RSTBC about the CMHC lands asap, survey closes soon.

Yep, for all of the land managers I've had opportunity to work with, RST is definitely the best of the bunch, though it does depend a bit on the local staff.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: heckler

Engaged members get it.

https://nsmba.ca/national-day-for-truth-and-reconciliation/

That's not bad, but honestly I'd like to see more.

Agree on seeing more. Actions, not just words.

PORCA partnered with Indigenous Women Outdoors to support an Indigenous woman interested in becoming a PMBIA Level 1 certified mountain bike coach and funded an Introduction to Mountain Biking Program for women and girls from Líl̓wat Nation.

SORCA supports a Squamish Nation driven mountain bike mentorship program, and I believe they also hire Squamish Nation youth as part of their summer trail crew (or have done so in the past).

Chilliwack Park Society supports a youth mtb and trail building program with Sto:lo Youth

Posted by: Couch_Surfer

Just had a canvasser for the Conservatives at my door.  Kid was barely in university.  I don't understand anyone that young thinking the Cons are working for their future.

Apparently he did all right as there seem to be more than a few new signs for the conservative candidate in the 'hood

The BCIT Forest Society is also asking folks not to ride at the Woodlot.

FVRD has closed Sumas Mountain Regional Park (only the FVRD regional park trails are closed, so most MTB trails presently still open).

City of Mission has also closed Heritage Mountain trails; the closure of Red & Bear is part of full closure of the whole Mission Tree Farm, so access to Stave is limited to only those with campsite bookings or going to the boat launch.

https://www.fvmba.com/trail-closures-and-notices/