Posted by: syncro
Posted by: Pnwpedal
Yes, and no. I'm hesitant to dig into this but this is a civil audience who hopefully will see that I'm just posting some facts...
Sure, repeating rifles and handguns may have existed, but they can they really compare to modern handguns or say the ill maligned AR15? Could the average American have afforded one of those guns back then? And you mention no rules WRT buying guns, but society and how it functioned was vastly different then compared to today. I don't object to firearm ownership, but I tend to think the obsession over guns strikes me as a bit out of control. The problem is that the horses have already bolted from the barn and firearms are so ubiquitous that the problem will never be reeled in without a major shift in ideology in the US. Heck, even trying to implement some sort of national level regulations on background checks, licensing and training seems to be next to impossible. It's difficult to have a conversation on any sort of firearm control when such a large portion of the population is not even willing to entertain any reduction in their access to firearms. Enough politicians won't seriously consider it because it means too many lost votes. I get that it's part of the American identity, but something's going to have to give at some point.
FWIW I think most gun owners are relatively responsible people who don't have nefarious purposes in mind when it comes to their guns. However, responsibility can quickly go by the wayside when emotion and mental health gets in the way of rational thinking. That leads me to think that there isn't so much a gun problem as a society problem and unfortunately people have relatively easy access to guns to use to sort out their problems.
Posted by: syncro
Posted by: RAHrider
Most polls done to give a sense of the breakdown of the country are of about 1000 people or so. I see the election as a poll of sorts. If you poll half the population, I think it is fairly safe to assume the other half that did not vote would fall along fairly similar lines. So if about 1/2 of voting Americans supported Trump, probably about 1/2 of non-voting America does as well.
As for the Abe thing, I agree it is a smaller portion but the fact that anyone would think Trump is a good president frightens me. He is racist, misogynistic and a bully. He is largely incomprehensible unless reading a teleprompt. He is a habitual liar and he has put US diplomacy back several decades.
I agree that letting Trump and his followers define America neglects the other 165 million people. That being said, I know there are lots of great Americans out there but it still doesn't mean I want to visit their country. For instance, I have never had a single problem with anyone I have ever met from Columbia, but I can tell you that I am not going down to Columbia any time soon. I can think of dozens of other countries to visit that are safer than the US and where the citizens more closely align with my values generally speaking. I used to think I shared values with most Americans but that is largely because I was getting a lot of information through media from places like New York/California. Now that I see more clearly how about 1/2 the US population thinks/feels I am less inclined to want to visit.
Fair point on the polls/voting issue, but I wonder if a lot of people stayed home simply because they didn't like either choice and therefore that 49/51 split wouldn't follow through as you suggest. I think if them Dems had run someone other than Clinton we wouldn't even be talking about Trump.
On the idea that people think Trump is good, it mystifies me, but is doesn't surprise me given the way US politics operates and how the avg American seems to think about politics. I know this sounds disparaging towards Americans and recognize that I have a limited view of things down there, but I sometimes find the thinking of the US (the avg American) to be frightenly shallow. I don't necessarily blame the individual though, more the system/society that they developed under.
First off, I'm grateful that we can have an intelligent conversation. On a US forum this would have quickly devolved into personal attacks, threats of violence/civil war, and no real discussion.
The world of today could not be fathomed in 1787. The American constitution is the ultimate foundation of our principles (as it should be in a Constitutional Republic) but there is debate over whether the intent should be followed, or a more modern interpretation. That's outside of my control beyond voting for politicians I believe in so I don't worry about it.
As far as the firearms themselves, the "AR15" of today (a 60 year old design that has become the basis of most modern rifles) is practically equivalent to the flintlock musket of the Revolutionary War - the ubiquitous rifle that most citizens can own. Not necessarily the best, but practical enough to get the job done. Applying the Second Amendment as intended, the right of a citizen to own them "shall not be infringed". (See the previous statement over Intent VS Interpretation)
I do agree that the average American has been conditioned to have a very shallow belief system. The quote of "buying things we don't need, with money we don't have, to impress people we don't like" applies far too often. There is a societal issue without a doubt. I have personally stepped away from watching any national/corporate news, especially the "talking head" style of political pundits giving their spin on the news (Fox, MSNBC, etc). I'll check local news for local events, and if a national event is serious enough it will pop up on one of these sources. Life is better that way. Like most Americans, I want to live my best and happiest life and contribute to a good life for my family. Unfortunately the quiet majority are vastly overshadowed by the loudest voices on the extreme ends of the spectrum...