Whistler Carnage

The problem with manager is that it's unlike any other rock face on the mountain. In fact, I've never seen anything like it. Posting signs isn't enough. There's a big sign at the bottom of Garbanzo warning people that only expert riders should proceed. There's a similar sign at the start of A-line. There's a similar sign…..you get the picture. Too many signs means people start taking them for granted. However, it's not the signs that is the problem, it's the lines.

Yeah maybe they should change the signs to say "We seriously mean it for experts…No really we mean it this time" or maybe they should post a sign saying "Hey dumbass you aren't good enough to ride this line"
What would be really nice is if people would take responsiblity for their own actions. We all know we can get hurt biking and it is our responsibility to ride within our individual limits. The vast majority of Whistler carnage is caused by people riding over their head.

Where I had my accident, all they have to do is fill-in the ditch. The trail doesn't change and people stop getting hurt. They did a similar mod to a jump on Dirt Merchant earlier this year. Riders were cosistantly casing one of the jumps. They recognised the problem and fixed it. They should do the same thing with two sites I've mentioned. It is costing them more $$$ than they realise.

The maintenance guys are very open to suggestions.
Did you let them know?

I dislocated my pinky on National last year. I put it back in myself, went down and iced the hell out of it. It took easily 6 months to get strong again. During that time I massaged it, pulled it and curled it in so that it would not lose mobility. It still has the bump.

The maintenance guys are very open to suggestions.
Did you let them know?

I dislocated my pinky on National last year. I put it back in myself, went down and iced the hell out of it. It took easily 6 months to get strong again. During that time I massaged it, pulled it and curled it in so that it would not lose mobility. It still has the bump.

Yep, let the boys at the lift know, and emailed Whistler today. I tried to make my maintenance suggestion without placing blame or sounding bitter about the incident.

You're the second person who has said they had the same injury, popped it back in by themselves, and took 6 months to heal. I was thinking the standard 6 weeks before hearing the stories and researching the injury :crybaby: I would have popped it back in myself, but I didnt realise it was dislocated. I just thought it was a soft tissue injury and left it alone. I could move all my digits, so I didn't think anything was broken.

The problem with manager is that it's unlike any other rock face on the mountain. In fact, I've never seen anything like it. Posting signs isn't enough.

How much babysitting do you have to do?? I wouldn't want to see it dumbed down or closed again. Its fun to ride and even if I wasn't riding it yet, I would want to have it as something that I could work towards at its present difficulty level. Its very disappointing to finally feel like you can ride something, get there and find out its gone or that instead of a skinny you had to hop your rear wheel to make, that its now a ladder highway… Personal responsibility would solve these problems…

does someone have a pic of the manager drop?

does someone have a pic of the manager drop?

what these pics don't show is that there is a little hump you go down just before the steep face (gotta keep it slow for this last face if you want to roll it)

Sparkplug: I understand your point, but you should look at this from Whistler's viewpoint. You own a business and people (stupid or otherwise) are consistently injuring themselves on something your employees designed. What would you do? Put up warning signs? Accidents have increased since the signs went up. Close it? People complain that they can't ride a great stunt. Make it safer? People will complain that it's not hard enough.

All I'm saying is that if I was making the decisions, I'd take the heat from the pros and close it. I know that wouldn't be a popular decision, but it makes good business sense.

Sparkplug: I understand your point, but you should look at this from Whistler's viewpoint. You own a business and people (stupid or otherwise) are consistently injuring themselves on something your employees designed. What would you do? Put up warning signs? Accidents have increased since the signs went up. Close it? People complain that they can't ride a great stunt. Make it safer? People will complain that it's not hard enough.

All I'm saying is that if I was making the decisions, I'd take the heat from the pros and close it. I know that wouldn't be a popular decision, but it makes good business sense.

I don't have the perfect answer. There is always the problem of dealing with the lowest common denominator in a situation - the majority gets screwed because of small group of people (small in that I'm sure lots of people go around and lots of people ride its successfully). My half serious- half tongue in cheek answer would be to post a huge warning sign telling people of the large number and different serious injuries that have occurred there- pictures of carnage might help. One could also create some pain in the ass obstacle that you'd have to carry your bike over to get to it. And if I was Whistler, I would be consulting my lawyers to ensure that an area with repeat injuries that are known to Whistler would not create a situation of negligence. I would want to make sure that the liablity waivers would be sufficient to prevent a bad outcome in a lawsuit. They won't be worried that x number of people have injured themselves and won't be spending $. One convention would look after all the lost riders spending.

A comparable situation would be the pools at Lynn Canyon. Many people have died there. They post warning signs, warn people of the past deaths etc. Yes, people still dive into the pools but what are you going to do - close down all of Lynn Canyon because of a few people who wish to take risks?

And yes, if there are easy fixes to prevent injuries ie. filling in a ditch, cutting off a stake, removing an impaling obstacle, they should be done.

2 minutes after watching a guy break his collar bone on manager, I hit the jump on Freight Train that sends you right - into the ditch. I did just that.

are you talking about the step up that takes a slight left turn, right after the drop/step down on lower Freight Train? I totally went into that ditch too. Went strait off the big jump on the right side of it. Bad Idea. I was a little more fortunate i guess, just tweaked my wrist a little, and will be up again on tuesday, though will definitely be more cautious. They seriously need to widen the landing on the right side!

that's no good. healing vibes to you and the guy who hit the manager

Sparkplug: I understand your point, but you should look at this from Whistler's viewpoint. You own a business and people (stupid or otherwise) are consistently injuring themselves on something your employees designed. What would you do? Put up warning signs? Accidents have increased since the signs went up. Close it? People complain that they can't ride a great stunt. Make it safer? People will complain that it's not hard enough.

All I'm saying is that if I was making the decisions, I'd take the heat from the pros and close it. I know that wouldn't be a popular decision, but it makes good business sense.

From my experience in Whistler, the place where people constantly seem to be injuring themselves is A-line. I don't even ride that trail very often, but everytime I've been on it I've always seen at least one person being carted off. From the incidents I've seen and the gear that these people have, it is obvious that the vast majority of the people were in over their heads. But by your logic Whistler should close it down because people keep getting hurt. Take it a step further, why not close the whole park and leave just the Green and Blue trails. Sure you will lose the pros but you will still get the family tourist crowd. You could fire half your trail crew and wouldn't need as many first aid people. I know it wouldn't be popular, but it makes good business sense.

I am serioulsy getting annoyed at the lack of responsibility people take for their own actions. You tried something and you crashed. Maybe it was over your head, maybe you just made a stupid mistake this time. Bottom line it was your decision to do it and your mistake. You can twist it around anyway you like but at the end of the day it was your fault. You can say they need to change the stunt so that next time you make a stupid mistake you might not crash, but what if you make a different mistake? Maybe they should line the ground with padding just in case.

FT ditch: i didn't think that he was saying his injury was Whistler's fault… i thought he was just saying that filling the ditch would help lessen the chance of injuries. why not?

2 minutes after watching a guy break his collar bone on manager, I hit the jump on Freight Train that sends you right - into the ditch. I did just that. Ended up with a broken bone in my hand and a dislocated pinky (same hand). Doc couldn't reset it properly, so I'll likely need surgery. No more Whizzler this year. Could have been much worse though.

Watch yourself out there, these two places are accidents ready to happen. I blame myself, but I think Whistler should take a close look at these sites. Far too many good riders going down.

Chunky, I hope that your hand gets better soon. We will look at that jump on FT. Also, thanks for this thread. I manage the Bike Park and our major task to make the Park safer without dummying everything down, is to make riders more aware and hopefuly ride within their abilities. Mountain biking is about pushing the limits, but it is also about knowing your limits. We like to build trails and features for all levels of riders and that includes the high expert riders. That is why we now have the "Pro Line". The "Manager" falls into that designation along with "D1" and the big line in the "Jump Farm". "Pro Line" designation allows us to build trails which will help our riders progress. I have ridden the "Manager" about 50 times without any problems, but I have not cleaned "D1" yet and it will be a while before I do. I'm old school, I know my limits and I will do it on my terms.
Here is some advice for riding the "Manager". If you can, SUPER SLOWLY, roll into all the slick rock faces in the Park then you are ready for the "Manager". It's about CONTROL. Try to roll down "Joyride" rock, "Captain Safety", "Goat's Gully" etc. as slow as possible in control without skidding. If you are having troubles with this, do not attempt the "Manager". If you feel ready, roll in slowly and when your front wheel goes over the edge, let go of the brakes, soften your legs and arms to absorb the top of the roll, extend your legs and arms to meet the trany and get centered, grab some brake after the trany and you are through. Piece of cake.
Thanks for all of the feedback from everyone, possitive and negative, as this helps us to deal with issues and keep the Park progressive.

All I'm saying is that if I was making the decisions, I'd take the heat from the pros and close it. I know that wouldn't be a popular decision, but it makes good business sense.

To be brutally frank, I don't think a few dozen riders down will have much effect on Whistler's bottom line financially. I'm sure they'd rather not have the injuries, but still, it's always the rider who chooses to ride.

Good reply from motorp. I'll add my two pennies. I haven't had a chance to ride the Manager yet. Last year it was closed before I could ride it, but I walked in and had a good look at the line down from the top and the bottom. I know I've ridden tougher rock drops on Fifth Horseman, so I know I can do it. Haven't had much time to visit Whistler this summer, but I'll be super disappointed if it's closed again when I go up next time, cause it's on my list for sure!

Kn.