I sense someone is not telling the truth.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Konrad

Let's break it down and spell it out for you:

• Environmentally sensitive area
• Remote area where help and rescue is limited and takes time
• Traffic causes wear and damage
• Limit traffic
• No e-bikes as it will allow increased traffic and inexperienced people at greater unnecessary risk

food for thoughts:

sales numbers Germany 2023:

E-MTB 819.000

MTB 92.500

the future IS now and it IS already electric, the only question remains is how elitist and gate keeping will the non electric mtb fans be seen in the end? don't fight the inevitable, don't be the next monica :)

I think for the numbers to be meaningful you'd need to break down the classes/quality of the bikes being sold and who they are being sold to. 

From my observations over here there are a lot of people buying what would be classed as e-mtb's and using them primarily as commuter bikes or for gravel path rides simply due to the suspension factor.

the earliest number i could get quickly were the sales numbers from 2015

back then, they sold 382.000 MTB and 41.600 E-MTB

there is no information on how people use their bikes after they buy them, but yes, not all sales will be used in the mountains. yet, a reduction in sales by 3/4 in just 8 years is more than telling. and the german numbers are more extrem than here in switzerland, last year the split was 50/50. but the trend is the same, just a bit behind (like in canada). at some point most bikes sold will be electric, if you like it or not. and then people will demand access. and i will be right :)

Posted by: Sethimus

the future IS now and it IS already electric, the only question remains is how elitist and gate keeping will the non electric mtb fans be seen in the end? don't fight the inevitable, don't be the next monica :)

I think for the numbers to be meaningful you'd need to break down the classes/quality of the bikes being sold and who they are being sold to. 

From my observations over here there are a lot of people buying what would be classed as e-mtb's and using them primarily as commuter bikes or for gravel path rides simply due to the suspension factor.

the earliest number i could get quickly were the sales numbers from 2015

back then, they sold 382.000 MTB and 41.600 E-MTB

there is no information on how people use their bikes after they buy them, but yes, not all sales will be used in the mountains. yet, a reduction in sales by 3/4 in just 8 years is more than telling. and the german numbers are more extrem than here in switzerland, last year the split was 50/50. but the trend is the same, just a bit behind (like in canada). at some point most bikes sold will be electric, if you like it or not. and then people will demand access. and i will be right :)

No you won’t be right. Snowmobiles and trials bikes have been banned up there. Partly because our watershed for Whistler’s drinking water is right nearby and partly conservation. And it’s not like you can’t ride everywhere else. Just not there. I’m sure you’re right about e-bikes becoming ever more popular. Those trails have been shut down a number of times in the recent past to keep people from disturbing the grizzlies up there. If the place becomes too crowded, I could see a permit system put in place. It already exists in Garibaldi park to some extent. Besides. Who the hell wants to go ride even in the alpine with crowds of people. It takes away from the experience.

Posted by: andy-eunson

Who the hell wants to go ride even in the alpine with crowds of people. It takes away from the experience.

easy: build more alpine trails. no crowds in overcrowded switzerland

didn't meet any person up there the other day :)

Posted by: Sethimus

At some point most bikes sold will be electric, if you like it or not. and then people will demand access. and i will be right :)

LOL

It's not about being right. The question for me has always been about etiquette and volunteering. People may demand access, but if they're acting like pinheads then they probably won't get it, or worse all access will be lost. Then things will get ugly. My gut and casual/anecdotal observation tells me that ebike riders are less inclined to do the heavy lifting of advocacy and trail work/maintenance. So if they become the majority I don't think that bodes well for trail access.

Posted by: Sethimus

easy: build more alpine trails. no crowds in overcrowded switzerland

didn't meet any person up there the other day :)

Nice pic, but it highlights the flaw in your thinking/argument. 

You're arguing about your situation in your location and assuming it should apply to a different location that you have no real knowledge and no experience about. It's like your trying to tell someone in a wheelchair what their experience should be like walking up a flight of stairs. You just can't see it because of your hubris.

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Konrad

Let's break it down and spell it out for you:

• Environmentally sensitive area
• Remote area where help and rescue is limited and takes time
• Traffic causes wear and damage
• Limit traffic
• No e-bikes as it will allow increased traffic and inexperienced people at greater unnecessary risk

food for thoughts:

sales numbers Germany 2023:

E-MTB 819.000

MTB 92.500

the future IS now and it IS already electric, the only question remains is how elitist and gate keeping will the non electric mtb fans be seen in the end? don't fight the inevitable, don't be the next monica :)

Germany isn't a country many Canadians aspire to be like.

Posted by: syncro

Posted by: Sethimus

easy: build more alpine trails. no crowds in overcrowded switzerland

didn't meet any person up there the other day :)

Nice pic, but it highlights the flaw in your thinking/argument. 

You're arguing about your situation in your location and assuming it should apply to a different location that you have no real knowledge and no experience about. It's like your trying to tell someone in a wheelchair what their experience should be like walking up a flight of stairs. You just can't see it because of your hubris.

Hubris was such a polite way of putting that. Chapeau.

-----

When I rode in the alps it was like being in an alien landscape it was so different than The Shore.

Aside from Sethimus not getting the point on Sproat, we do need more access to expand alpine trails in the S2S. 

All the better if it's designated e-bike free zone just to piss them off.

Posted by: Sethimus

didn't meet any person up there the other day :)

How lucky for them!

I can no longer tell if Sethimus....

Some Euro Alpine riding...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeJSqZNSn7A