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I sense someone is not telling the truth.

Nov. 3, 2024, 3:17 p.m.
Posts: 1308
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: [email protected]

Posted by: Sethimus

because its a stupid rule that needs to be evaluated at some point again anyways because at there is gonna be a time when even in canada most sold bikes will have a motor. you can’t restrict that area for ever the same way you can’t restrict ALL mountainbikes to trails that are wider than 2m in baden württemberg…

FWIW there are lots of areas here where bikes are not allowed at all, for example most provincial parks including Garibaldi near Whistler which has some amazing alpine trails. But you can hike those trails and it's actually nice to have such great hiking terrain without bikes.

Like mtb riders before them, e-mtb riders can organize and advocate for trail access. The mtb access to the Sproatt alpine was gained after many years of advocacy by riders.

The tiny amount of access to Garibaldi Provincial Park trail wise for mtb is thanks to WORCA. And people like Grant Lamont who formed WORCA in the mid to late 1980’s to prevent a total ban. Through their efforts it wasn’t a total ban which gave riders access to Red Heather and the trail to Cheakamus Lake.

BC Parks is as have observed over the decades. Is not exactly a progressive agency.

Nov. 3, 2024, 11:27 p.m.
Posts: 2710
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: tashi

If you like you nature on a leash and your mountain bikes motorized, you may not be able to understand restricted access.

the gold standard for me is how the canton of Graubünden here in Switzerland handles things:

all trails are open to both bikers and hikers and it is expected that both user groups are tolerant to each others use cases.

see what's happening here? EXACTLY, they talk about bikers. no further discrimination of motorized or non-motorized vehicles, as it should be.

there are a few areas (inside the Swiss national park for example) that restrict bikes, but that's ALL bikes, not just some of them


 Last edited by: Sethimus on Nov. 3, 2024, 11:30 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Nov. 6, 2024, 9:52 a.m.
Posts: 13318
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: Sethimus

because its a stupid rule that needs to be evaluated at some point again anyways because at there is gonna be a time when even in canada most sold bikes will have a motor. you can’t restrict that area for ever the same way you can’t restrict ALL mountainbikes to trails that are wider than 2m in baden württemberg…

As the saying goes: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. 

I do not agree with your notion, I think that there are always local specifics and just because it is working in Switzerland does not mean that it would work everywhere there are so many other factors coming into play. 

Us Europeans live in a crowded place, I would not even consider the Alps in Austria, Switzerland and Italy wild, for example. The place is different from North America as you know. And with that come different perspectives on preservation, nature, wilderness, access and whatnot. 

Your argument that e-bikes will make up most of the mtbs sold is not really an argument, just because people buy them does not mean that they should be granted access automatically.

Nov. 6, 2024, 12:17 p.m.
Posts: 883
Joined: May 11, 2022

Posted by: Mic

Posted by: Sethimus

because its a stupid rule that needs to be evaluated at some point again anyways because at there is gonna be a time when even in canada most sold bikes will have a motor. you can’t restrict that area for ever the same way you can’t restrict ALL mountainbikes to trails that are wider than 2m in baden württemberg…

As the saying goes: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. 

I do not agree with your notion, I think that there are always local specifics and just because it is working in Switzerland does not mean that it would work everywhere there are so many other factors coming into play. 

Us Europeans live in a crowded place, I would not even consider the Alps in Austria, Switzerland and Italy wild, for example. The place is different from North America as you know. And with that come different perspectives on preservation, nature, wilderness, access and whatnot. 

Your argument that e-bikes will make up most of the mtbs sold is not really an argument, just because people buy them does not mean that they should be granted access automatically.

This guy gets it.  Thumbs up.

Nov. 6, 2024, 12:31 p.m.
Posts: 2710
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: Mic

Posted by: Sethimus

because its a stupid rule that needs to be evaluated at some point again anyways because at there is gonna be a time when even in canada most sold bikes will have a motor. you can’t restrict that area for ever the same way you can’t restrict ALL mountainbikes to trails that are wider than 2m in baden württemberg…

As the saying goes: When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

du würdest also in bw brav die wenigen legalen trails fahren, natüüüüürlich...

wie man im schwobaländle so gern sagt: schwätz mer koi veschber in'd dasch...


 Last edited by: Sethimus on Nov. 6, 2024, 12:32 p.m., edited 3 times in total.
Nov. 6, 2024, 12:58 p.m.
Posts: 13318
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Mic

Posted by: Sethimus

because its a stupid rule that needs to be evaluated at some point again anyways because at there is gonna be a time when even in canada most sold bikes will have a motor. you can’t restrict that area for ever the same way you can’t restrict ALL mountainbikes to trails that are wider than 2m in baden württemberg…

As the saying goes: When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

du würdest also in bw brav die wenigen legalen trails fahren, natüüüüürlich...

wie man im schwobaländle so gern sagt: schwätz mer koi veschber in'd dasch...

Well, first, that is classic WhatAboutism, somehow, imho....you can not really compare one with the other, does not work rhetorically. Of course I would not stick to the 2m rule in the Black Forest. 

Apples and oranges.

Nov. 6, 2024, 1:45 p.m.
Posts: 2710
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: Mic

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Mic

Posted by: Sethimus

because its a stupid rule that needs to be evaluated at some point again anyways because at there is gonna be a time when even in canada most sold bikes will have a motor. you can’t restrict that area for ever the same way you can’t restrict ALL mountainbikes to trails that are wider than 2m in baden württemberg…

As the saying goes: When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

du würdest also in bw brav die wenigen legalen trails fahren, natüüüüürlich...

wie man im schwobaländle so gern sagt: schwätz mer koi veschber in'd dasch...

Well, first, that is classic WhatAboutism, somehow, imho....you can not really compare one with the other, does not work rhetorically. Of course I would not stick to the 2m rule in the Black Forest. 

Apples and oranges.

nope, same thing. one user group (hikers) get the morale high ground vs. bikers on how to use a public space. "sia wissed abr scho dass sie hier ned fahre dürfed" you don't wanna know how often i get told this sentence in bw. not even once in the whole 8 years i lived in berlin. its ruled based elitism, one group can judge the other group on how to behave properly.

Nov. 6, 2024, 11:40 p.m.
Posts: 13318
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Mic

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Mic

Posted by: Sethimus

because its a stupid rule that needs to be evaluated at some point again anyways because at there is gonna be a time when even in canada most sold bikes will have a motor. you can’t restrict that area for ever the same way you can’t restrict ALL mountainbikes to trails that are wider than 2m in baden württemberg…

As the saying goes: When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

du würdest also in bw brav die wenigen legalen trails fahren, natüüüüürlich...

wie man im schwobaländle so gern sagt: schwätz mer koi veschber in'd dasch...

Well, first, that is classic WhatAboutism, somehow, imho....you can not really compare one with the other, does not work rhetorically. Of course I would not stick to the 2m rule in the Black Forest. 

Apples and oranges.

nope, same thing. one user group (hikers) get the morale high ground vs. bikers on how to use a public space. "sia wissed abr scho dass sie hier ned fahre dürfed" you don't wanna know how often i get told this sentence in bw. not even once in the whole 8 years i lived in berlin. its ruled based elitism, one group can judge the other group on how to behave properly.

Ok, I take the bait. 

I think you are wrong with your comparison - on the one hand we have an area that is marked as sensitive and in which user groups have to stick to rules to have as little impact on the ecosystem as possible - the high-alpine area in Whistler where certain rules have been set up to protect an ecosystem, maybe the solution is a little off (acoustic vs e-bikes), but it still is an attempt to minimize human impact on a small scale, Grizzlies and all that. 

On the other hand we have a province where the laws concerning different user groups is totalle effed up and mtbers (despite having less or a similar impact as horse back riders) are the ones that are marginalized and excluded, which is not a solution that works. As you said, elitism and whatnot at its best.

Apples and oranges.

Nov. 7, 2024, 4:37 a.m.
Posts: 2710
Joined: April 2, 2005

in both cases the jurisdiction says certain wheel based vehicles are too much for nature to take and therefore prohibited

Nov. 10, 2024, 11:26 p.m.
Posts: 13318
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: Sethimus

in both cases the jurisdiction says certain wheel based vehicles are too much for nature to take and therefore prohibited

Given the cases, it is still apples and oranges though. *shrug

Nov. 11, 2024, 3:44 a.m.
Posts: 2710
Joined: April 2, 2005

let‘s agree to disagree and leave it at that

Nov. 11, 2024, 8:57 a.m.
Posts: 2
Joined: May 26, 2009

Let's break it down and spell it out for you:

  • Environmentally sensitive area
  • Remote area where help and rescue is limited and takes time
  • Traffic causes wear and damage
  • Limit traffic
  • No e-bikes as it will allow increased traffic and inexperienced people at greater unnecessary risk
Nov. 11, 2024, 11:31 a.m.
Posts: 2710
Joined: April 2, 2005

Posted by: Konrad

Let's break it down and spell it out for you:

  • Environmentally sensitive area
  • Remote area where help and rescue is limited and takes time
  • Traffic causes wear and damage
  • Limit traffic
  • No e-bikes as it will allow increased traffic and inexperienced people at greater unnecessary risk

food for thoughts:

sales numbers Germany 2023:

E-MTB 819.000

MTB 92.500

the future IS now and it IS already electric, the only question remains is how elitist and gate keeping will the non electric mtb fans be seen in the end? don't fight the inevitable, don't be the next monica :)


 Last edited by: Sethimus on Nov. 11, 2024, 11:32 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Nov. 11, 2024, 11:38 a.m.
Posts: 3677
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: Konrad

Let's break it down and spell it out for you:

  • Environmentally sensitive area
  • Remote area where help and rescue is limited and takes time
  • Traffic causes wear and damage
  • Limit traffic
  • No e-bikes as it will allow increased traffic and inexperienced people at greater unnecessary risk

food for thoughts:

sales numbers Germany 2023:

E-MTB 819.000

MTB 92.500

the future IS now and it IS already electric, the only question remains is how elitist and gate keeping will the non electric mtb fans be seen in the end? don't fight the inevitable, don't be the next monica :)

I think for the numbers to be meaningful you'd need to break down the classes/quality of the bikes being sold and who they are being sold to. 

From my observations over here there are a lot of people buying what would be classed as e-mtb's and using them primarily as commuter bikes or for gravel path rides simply due to the suspension factor.

Nov. 11, 2024, 11:50 a.m.
Posts: 15185
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Truck sales are significantly higher than MTB, so I guess by someone's logic we should just turn it into a Tacoma shuttle trail.

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