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Best fox service guy/shop in the village

June 24, 2018, 8:49 a.m.
Posts: 4
Joined: June 19, 2017

Hey guys I have a 2018 fox 36 that I believe has too much grease on the air piston or some overfull fluid issue.  Seems like a lot of guys are having this issue right from the factory from looking around online.  I feel like most of the shops here are so busy they'll rip it apart and slap it together and might not be aware of the issues... anyone have a suggested place to go to?  Maybe coastal culture?

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/2018-fox-factory-36-setup-issues-1066340.html#post13513376

Thanks!

June 24, 2018, 9:02 a.m.
Posts: 834
Joined: March 18, 2017

https://vorsprungsuspension.com

June 24, 2018, 9:38 a.m.
Posts: 442
Joined: March 15, 2013

Judging by that thread...

Yes that is too much grease.

Don't put Float fluid anywhere in any new forks, Fox stopped using that and swapped to 20wt gold in most forks in around 2014 when they swapped their dust wiper design. Some of the 2014/15 forks use float fluid in their air chambers . By 2016 all forks are now using gold.

There is no grease used on any stanchions from Fox ever. That's what the bath oil is for.

"Damper overfill" is from ingestion from regular use, it's not an issue from the factory, those guys need to service their forks more.

There should be NO air pressure in the lowers so if that guy is getting air release from the dust wiper when he jams a zip tie down there then he's got an air leak. (Don't jam shit down your dust wipers)

Don't lube your dust wipers, leave them dry as the engineers intended.

There is very little friction / stiction on the 2018 air springs when they are clean and assembled correctly. This is a fact.

Not every air piston will retract in to the stanchion when aired down.

Using aftermarket parts could completely void your warranty. Technically it does.

Most of those guys have the old 2018 air spring, there is an update for his air piston that is covered by Fox. Not all the TSBs are public which is why that guy never found the air spring TSB / update info.

If it's new it should go back to the distributor to be checked out as they are your only source for warranty service. All the local shops / independent service centers will return items with warranty issues to the distributor aside from one single exception at one single service center.

A lot of those people have no idea what they are talking about.


 Last edited by: thaaad on June 24, 2018, 10:05 a.m., edited 6 times in total.
June 24, 2018, 12:51 p.m.
Posts: 4
Joined: June 19, 2017

Posted by: thaaad

Judging by that thread...

Yes that is too much grease.

Don't put Float fluid anywhere in any new forks, Fox stopped using that and swapped to 20wt gold in most forks in around 2014 when they swapped their dust wiper design. Some of the 2014/15 forks use float fluid in their air chambers . By 2016 all forks are now using gold.

There is no grease used on any stanchions from Fox ever. That's what the bath oil is for.

"Damper overfill" is from ingestion from regular use, it's not an issue from the factory, those guys need to service their forks more.

There should be NO air pressure in the lowers so if that guy is getting air release from the dust wiper when he jams a zip tie down there then he's got an air leak. (Don't jam shit down your dust wipers)

Don't lube your dust wipers, leave them dry as the engineers intended.

There is very little friction / stiction on the 2018 air springs when they are clean and assembled correctly. This is a fact.

Not every air piston will retract in to the stanchion when aired down.

Using aftermarket parts could completely void your warranty. Technically it does.

Most of those guys have the old 2018 air spring, there is an update for his air piston that is covered by Fox. Not all the TSBs are public which is why that guy never found the air spring TSB / update info.

If it's new it should go back to the distributor to be checked out as they are your only source for warranty service. All the local shops / independent service centers will return items with warranty issues to the distributor aside from one single exception at one single service center.

A lot of those people have no idea what they are talking about.

That's all a bunch of great information for whoever you recommend in the whistler village area to go through my fork?

Ian

June 24, 2018, 3:05 p.m.
Posts: 442
Joined: March 15, 2013

I'd bite the bullet and ship it in to Suspension Worx in North Van.

June 25, 2018, 11 a.m.
Posts: 1485
Joined: July 11, 2014

Posted by: thaaad

Don't lube your dust wipers, leave them dry as the engineers intended.

What about using WPL Fork Boost to pull dirt/grime out of the wipers after muddy rides? Been doing this with my 40's and Pikes the last couple years, seems to get more consistent performance between service intervals... Most of it wipes away but some definitely gets into the wipers.

https://wplbike.com/products/forkboost-4oz


 Last edited by: grambo on June 25, 2018, 11 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
June 25, 2018, 12:19 p.m.
Posts: 442
Joined: March 15, 2013

The dust wipers basically have 2 sets of lips in them. One top lip that keeps dirt out, and one double set of lips one that keeps oil in, there is about half a cm of dead space between the upper and lower set. I'm not even 100% sure whether this dead gap between the upper and lower set even touches the stanchion, it's set pretty deep in. At its deepest point it looks like it's about 2.5mm deep, it's hard to measure though so I could be wrong.

I'd be skeptical that much of the lube sprayed on your stanchion is actually getting past the upper outside lip. I'm sure some might but most of it is just lubing your stanchion and being a substance in which dust accumulates. This will eat your stanchions alive if you don't clean it off. It's similar to why you need to wipe your chain before you lube it. Excess liquids will trap dust and grit and combined with the liquid it will basically act as grinding paste. Sure it might feel nice for a run our two, but long run I'd shy away from it.

When you see people lube/grease dust wipers they're basically lubing the dead space between these 2 lips. This will do a combo of a few things. Pass out of the lip at the top keeping the dirt out and sit on your stanchion and collect more shit since that upper lip is only designed to keep shit out, not in. Pass in to the fork lowers at the double lips on the bottom and mix with your leg oil since that set is only designed to keep oil in.

That's my take on that stuff.


 Last edited by: thaaad on June 25, 2018, 12:51 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
June 25, 2018, 3:50 p.m.
Posts: 1485
Joined: July 11, 2014

Hmm interesting take, and definitely makes sense. When I use the Fork Boost stuff, I am putting a small amount (wiping it on with my finger) on the first couple cm of exposed stanchions. I then compress the forks once. There's then a ring of Fork Boost with dirt/grit in it which I assume it has pulled out of the dust wiper. I wipe the stanchions and outside of the dust wiper completely clean/dry... I do this after a ride. I'm a pussy and pay a mechanic to service my fork so I haven't seen inside the dust wipers but he says my stuff is in good shape when he cracks it open.

June 25, 2018, 9:54 p.m.
Posts: 13
Joined: Feb. 15, 2015

Thaaad, it sounds like you know your stuff. I'd like to pick you mind about a few things. Do you prefer the green SKF seals or Fox SKF seals on your 36s? If you're privy to this information, what is the difference between the old 2018 spring and the new one issued with the TSB? Are you of the opinion that foam rings should be changed out more often than the wipers?

June 25, 2018, 10:46 p.m.
Posts: 442
Joined: March 15, 2013

I've never personally used the green SKF seals but I've felt them on some forks both assembled and disassembled and they feel good. I've never A/B'd them to the Fox wipers on the exact same stanchion / same lower though so I really couldn't say anything about the difference in feel. I suspect the SKF will last very slightly worse as the rubber feels a bit softer to me but that's just speculation. I'm not a fan of the foam rings that come with the green SKF seals though, they are a little softer / less dense so I feel like they will be worse at holding oil vs the Fox ones. That's also just speculation though, maybe they're the tits but I haven't used them or seen them enough to have a real opinion.

FWIW James @ Susworks uses them, as do the Dunbar crowd.

As far as the foam rings go if you don't want to change the dust wiper kit you can just pull the foam rings out and squish out any dirty oil between a few rags. You can soak them in new oil and squish it out a couple times to really "rinse" them out if you want. After that just re-soak them in fresh bath oil and you're good to go. You can replace them if you want if they're super dirty, you should be doing your bath oil a couple times a year anyways. You don't have to replace your dust wipers every time you want to change bath oil and clean your fork though. You can just clean the inside of the lowers, the exposed air / damper shaft, pull out your foam rings and clean them as above and clean your wipers with 99% alcohol. It would be better to do this a couple times a year than to change the whole kit once every 1.5 years.

Fresh oil and cleaning more often > new seals less often.

The 2018 36 air spring just had a thick rubber o-ring as a top out bumper. You can't see it in the pic below but it sits between the silver neg plate and the black top out plate. I couldn't find a good pic of it, sorry.

EDIT - I found a good view of the old top out bumper @ around 2 minutes in this video http://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=845

The 2019 air spring (below) has a black round top out bumper in it that is softer and larger than the 2018 one. It sits inside that silver cup / top out plate, you can only see the lower half in that pic.
That is the only difference between the 2 air springs, and there is a kit available to update the 2018 ones. It must be done at the warranty center though.


 Last edited by: thaaad on June 25, 2018, 10:58 p.m., edited 4 times in total.
June 26, 2018, 2:17 p.m.
Posts: 6
Joined: Feb. 19, 2018

seeing as the top lip removes the dust and the bottom lip keeps the oil in the legs the top lip shouldn't have oil on it, but putting oil on it will make it feel slightly smoother on a push down in the workshop test but on the trail its debatable.

I had to get my 40s rebuilt in Whis last year and used fanatik bikes, they did an ok job and TBH they were not too expensive, but they did contaminate my front brake... grrr

June 26, 2018, 3:02 p.m.
Posts: 65
Joined: March 28, 2012

Posted by: Endur-Bro

https://vorsprungsuspension.com

This should have ended the thread.  Go see Steve and get the best service.

June 26, 2018, 5:09 p.m.
Posts: 13
Joined: Feb. 15, 2015

Thanks, thaaad. We're in agreement on cleaning or changing the foam rings more often than the wipers.

Here is a better illustration of the 2019 NA2 36 spring: http://www.ridefox.com/fox17/img/help/page862-6YKG/2019-36-Air-Shaft-Assemblies..pdf

July 22, 2018, 7:23 a.m.
Posts: 2
Joined: July 22, 2018

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 Last edited by: digene on July 22, 2018, 7:24 a.m., edited 1 time in total.

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