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Trail building etiquette...a discussion

Dec. 5, 2002, 10:41 p.m.
Posts: 6901
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Originally posted by Grimace
lol we are the opposite we go to the shore to ride real trials

actually i ride both xc and shore style and i have to say that xc singletrack IS real trails as much as a good flowy shore stuff. there is nothing like epic XC with sweet winding singletrack. :)

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Dec. 5, 2002, 11:05 p.m.
Posts: 34067
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Originally posted by Sharon
That's why we go ride Elphinstone!!

You should try Snowden up in Campbell River. Awesome trails.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

Dec. 5, 2002, 11:22 p.m.
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Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Originally posted by Blaine
actually i ride both xc and shore style and i have to say that xc singletrack IS real trails as much as a good flowy shore stuff. there is nothing like epic XC with sweet winding singletrack. :)

all our trials were built buy old men who build "insane stunts" one foot off the ground

a few of us are building some insane and progressive trails

plus im not built to go up hill

Dec. 5, 2002, 11:42 p.m.
Posts: 6901
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Originally posted by Grimace
all our trials were built buy old men who build "insane stunts" one foot off the ground

hahahaha that made me laugh :lol:

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Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid.

Guns kill people just like pens cause spelling mistakes, cars create drunk drivers and spoons create fat people.

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Dec. 5, 2002, 11:45 p.m.
Posts: 4158
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Good point Ah-Choo

nailing trees is bad, cant we all just make dirt jumps :rolleyes:

Dec. 7, 2002, 9:44 a.m.
Posts: 6449
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Originally posted by Grimace
all our trials were built buy old men who build "insane stunts"

yeah tennyson but you must admit that Graham Macdonald has some serious trail building skill…when you look at the stuff he has built it is always done PRIMO…and it is always very well thought out~even tho cunning stunts is easy as pie,it still has a ridiculous amount of flow for a trail that combines nearly a kilometer of bridge and logride together without touching the ground,i htink that he was the first person to build a suspension brige to be ridden on a bike trail also. Glen Ellingsworth is the same way….although he doesnt build much crazy stuff,he builds with quality…ive been building with him b4 and i can honestly say that I was impressed,plus, he is a chainsaw weilding maniac LOL…anyone who can carve their name in a foot long plank with a chainsaw gets my vote of honour!

Dec. 10, 2002, 8:29 p.m.
Posts: 3740
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Originally posted by trail worker
yeah tennyson but you must admit that Graham Macdonald has some serious trail building skill…when you look at the stuff he has built it is always done PRIMO…and it is always very well thought out~even tho cunning stunts is easy as pie,it still has a ridiculous amount of flow for a trail that combines nearly a kilometer of bridge and logride together without touching the ground,i htink that he was the first person to build a suspension brige to be ridden on a bike trail also. Glen Ellingsworth is the same way….although he doesnt build much crazy stuff,he builds with quality…ive been building with him b4 and i can honestly say that I was impressed,plus, he is a chainsaw weilding maniac LOL…anyone who can carve their name in a foot long plank with a chainsaw gets my vote of honour!

i aggree with the above statment 100%, but graham was not the first to build a suspension bridge, it was done in nelson first. :) and yes glen is the king of the saw… ferns. :)

Dec. 10, 2002, 11:16 p.m.
Posts: 4010
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Originally posted by CoffeeMan
i aggree with the above statment 100%, but graham was not the first to build a suspension bridge, it was done in nelson first. :) and yes glen is the king of the saw… ferns. :)

i never said they were bad at building stunts 1 foot off the ground lol

Dec. 11, 2002, 8:39 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Nov. 21, 2002

Originally posted by Reefer Ryder
**I agree with julien, i dont see a problem with taking a few small trees down. But if your going around cutting down 3-4 foot wide trees thats sorta questionable. Its not like a few trees will change anything its just more the thought you know? Like why kill something thats taken decades to grow just so you dont havto ride around it?? Just my thoughts, Cheers

PS the trailbuilding forum rules.
oh and good post! **

There are many problems with cutting the small trees down, particularly on the North Shore.

1) Most of the small trees taken are cedar. Fromme, since it was logged has become a primarily hemlock forest. Those hemlocks are starting to come down through natural attrition and if there are no strong cedars to fill the area of new light, hemlock will grow back, resulting in a continued lack of diversity. How many of you tree cutters are foresters and can make a knowledgeable decision on which trees NEED to be cut out?

2) As I said, forward looking land managers look to the value of the trees in 50+ years, right when these trees will be prime for selective silvaculture. Typically land owners are not happy when some-one removes their future $10, 000+ tree.

3) Live trees are not as strong or rot resistant as properly seasoned wood, particularly if the bark is left on. Houses are not built from green lumber, why should structures. There are plenty of standing, dry cedars that are dead, and are better building material hands down. It should be noted that these trees are valuable habitat as well, and should be selected from different areas so as to not denude the forest of standing deadwood.

The bottom line is that we are building on some-one elses land. Where did we ever get the idea that it was cool to destroy potentially valuable resource on their land?

Dec. 11, 2002, 3:54 p.m.
Posts: 6449
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Originally posted by Ah-Choo
**There are many problems with cutting the small trees down, particularly on the North Shore.

1) Most of the small trees taken are cedar. Fromme, since it was logged has become a primarily hemlock forest. Those hemlocks are starting to come down through natural attrition and if there are no strong cedars to fill the area of new light, hemlock will grow back, resulting in a continued lack of diversity. How many of you tree cutters are foresters and can make a knowledgeable decision on which trees NEED to be cut out?

2) As I said, forward looking land managers look to the value of the trees in 50+ years, right when these trees will be prime for selective silvaculture. Typically land owners are not happy when some-one removes their future $10, 000+ tree.

3) Live trees are not as strong or rot resistant as properly seasoned wood, particularly if the bark is left on. Houses are not built from green lumber, why should structures. There are plenty of standing, dry cedars that are dead, and are better building material hands down. It should be noted that these trees are valuable habitat as well, and should be selected from different areas so as to not denude the forest of standing deadwood.

The bottom line is that we are building on some-one elses land. Where did we ever get the idea that it was cool to destroy potentially valuable resource on their land? **

I agree with you completely,but once again i suppose it comes down to the location of the said stunts/trails. As you pointed out, Fromme is a touchy place to be cutting live Cedars down becuse of how sparsely they populate the forest. However, if you were building in a location were cedars populate the vast majority of the forest, like on the Sunshine Coast(alot of wich are these "young" cedars wich you speak of), there is not a great issue with cutting a FEW down(from different areas of the forest of course), to build a structure. Nowhere was it mentioned that it was "cool" to cut down live trees,but in some areas(once again I will use the Sunshine Coast as an example), there are simply not a lot of standing cedars wich happen to be dead. We do not experience such heavy erosion and you do on the North Shore mountains,so threrefore not as many tree's roots are washed out,leading to a somewhat lacking supply of decent quality, dead cedars.

Dec. 11, 2002, 9:26 p.m.
Posts: 34067
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Originally posted by Ah-Choo
Houses are not built from green lumber, why should structures.

Sounds like you haven't worked in construction… :D ;)

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

Dec. 13, 2002, 3:56 p.m.
Posts: 6449
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

i have another thing to discuss….switchbacks…is it absolutely neccesary to build a switchback when the going gets steep andthe steep gets going?
I mean, in some places it is neccesary for drainage/erosion sake, but other times people just seem to throw in a few switchbacks to cut down on speed, why?

Dec. 13, 2002, 4:04 p.m.
Posts: 4010
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Originally posted by trail worker
i have another thing to discuss….switchbacks…is it absolutely neccesary to build a switchback when the going gets steep andthe steep gets going?
I mean, in some places it is neccesary for drainage/erosion sake, but other times people just seem to throw in a few switchbacks to cut down on speed, why?

lol sidewinder

Dec. 13, 2002, 4:09 p.m.
Posts: 6449
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Originally posted by Grimace
lol sidewinder

LOL my thoughts exactly

Dec. 13, 2002, 4:10 p.m.
Posts: 34067
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Originally posted by trail worker
i have another thing to discuss….switchbacks…is it absolutely neccesary to build a switchback when the going gets steep andthe steep gets going?
I mean, in some places it is neccesary for drainage/erosion sake, but other times people just seem to throw in a few switchbacks to cut down on speed, why?

Maybe it has to do with the line. :???:

But most likely it has to do with an easy way down. Like on Leopard, or the Switchbacks on Seymour.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

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