Me and a couple buddies are building a trail up on Seymour and we need some help in terms of techniques and strategies when it comes to trail building. This isn't our first attempt at building a trail but this is our first serious one. Any tips and tricks on every stage and aspect of trail building would be greatly appreciated by us. Anything pertaining to drainage, wooden features, building stable features on slopes, and removing stuff like rotten stumps are especially appreciated.
Posted by: ShroomPicker
guess so, did you join the nsmba?
Start by coming out to public or private trail days and learn from the many well trained leaders the NSMBA has built up over years and years of training and development. The NSMBA builders are always looking for fresh new blood to take on existing trails, and as you say, it is a serious effort to commit to life long maintenance of a trail you might volunteer to maintain and improve.
The land managers (DNV Parks, Metro Vancouver and BC Parks) are very active on Seymour, and are very aware of any new trails being put in without permission, as are the existing builders.
Some starting points to consider:
https://nsmba.ca/permitting-process/
https://nsmba.ca/how-to-help-a-trail-builder-v2/
https://nsmba.ca/nsmba-101-rogue-unsanctioned-trails/
https://nsmba.ca/district-of-north-vancouver-natural-area-trails-strategy-update/
Finally: the easiest way to get involved! Express your eagerness and dedication - it will be noticed
*Assuming trail has been ok'd with the powers that be*
Oviously better sources linked above /\ but I think Shroomy might also be looking for some random thrown out advice and opinions from the experience of average schmoes here? Maybe not lol.
I'm a bottom of the totem pole builder, Syncro, Jerry and others here are known builders at the very far opposite end of the totem. For experience and worthwhile advice they're the ones you want to take the notepad out for.
But I have tended to build/maintain about 50%, ride 50% and have done so since the late 90's, also have worked for some gifted builders. Wished I'd been told day 1:
•Watch the erosion patterns first, go up at the tail end of a big rain storm and watch the water flow. Dry weather estimations can be surprisingly far off.
•Water wants to go downhill, let it. Drains need to be robust and more importantly go off at a subtle angle to maintain water momentum and to self clear, using the venturi effect. And don't build your trail in the direction that drain is going...unless that section is armored or has some resilient feature.
•Use big rocks. Build a 1,000 year trail. Drag a couple proper pry bars up there and use 2 man+ size rocks. Overbuild everything right off the bat and you won't have to go back year after year...after year fixing it. Ask me how I know.
•When laying out the trail think about long straight lines, like connect-the-dots between far points. The most commin pitfall for builders is making the trail too tight. Look up at distant trail points while laying things in. Stop work frequently and walk way back and look at the lay of it and change your mind if you need to. Don't be afraid to flow it even uphill if that's what the speed dictates. Needing to haul on the brakes constantly is a waste of fucking elevation and destroys your trail in short order.
•I'm assuming you guys have got your natural features you want to include flagged already, and those features are probably why you're building there. But connect those spots in interesting ways that cover some ground, it's amazing how far high speed momentum can carry you between those points. Also let those interesting flagged features be janky, let the trail be technical, let it be hard. Let the trail be natural, or at least look that way. Plant ferns, etc in areas that were disturbed when building. Also, find features to flag that aren't just technical and fun to ride, but are there just for aesthetics. Waterfalls, vistas, interesting trees, etc. make it fucking spectacular.
•Put a gateway feature at the entrance especially if it's a difficult trail so newbs don't stumble on it and get hurt, also to keep traffic down. I've seen all manner of clever subtle entrances. I like the step-up over a shrub barrier, the creek entrance (hides the scent too!) and the drop/roll in off a solid rock area so there's no obvious entrance tracks.
Posted by: Hepcat
*Assuming trail has been ok'd with the powers that be*
Step 1 ^^, getting permission from the land manager, which on Seymour it likely isn't done by shroompicker, considering it took 10+ years of negotiation and advocacy work in ensuring the preservation of Cambodia, which could have been closed and decommissioned entirely.
Water is the biggest destroyer of trails and surrounding habitat, and until you've put in hundreds of hours to learn and understand the hydrodynamics of the forest, please stick with helping progress existing trails through the relevant trail association's traildays. Every existing trail needs work.
Posted by: Hepcat
*Assuming trail has been ok'd with the powers that be*
Oviously better sources linked above /\ but I think Shroomy might also be looking for some random thrown out advice and opinions from the experience of average schmoes here? Maybe not lol.
I'm a bottom of the totem pole builder, Syncro, Jerry and others here are known builders at the very far opposite end of the totem. For experience and worthwhile advice they're the ones you want to take out the notepad out for.
But I have tended to build/maintain about 50%, ride 50% and have done so since the late 90's, also have worked for some gifted builders. Wished I'd been told day 1:
•Watch the erosion patterns first, go up at the tail end of a big rain storm and watch the water flow. Dry weather estimations can be surprisingly far off.
•Water wants to go downhill, let it. Drains need to be robust and more importantly go off at a subtle angle to maintain momentum and self clean, using the venturi effect. And don't build your trail in the direction that drain is going...unless that section is armored or has some resilient feature.
•Use big rocks. Build a 1000 year trail. Drag a couple proper pry bars up there and use 2 man+ size rocks. Overbuild everything off the bat and you won't have to go back year after year...after year fixing it. Ask me how I know.
•When laying out the trail think about long straight lines, like connect the dots between far points. The most commin pitfall for builders is making the trail too tight. Look up at distant trail points while laying things in. Stop work frequently and walk way back and look at the lay of it and change your mind if you need to. Don't be afraid to flow it even uphill if that's what the speed dictates. Needing to haul on the brakes constantly is a waste of fucking elevation and destroys your trail in short order.
•I'm assuming you guys have got your natural features you want to include flagged already, and those features are probably why you're building there. But connect those spots in interesting ways that cover some ground, it's amazing how far high speed momentum can carry you between those points. Also let those interesting flagged features be janky, let the trail be technical, let it be hard. Let the trail be natural, or at least look that way. Plant ferns, etc in areas that were disturbed when building. Also, find features to flag that aren't just technical and fun to ride, but are there just for aesthetics. Waterfalls, vistas, interesting trees, etc. make it fucking spectacular.
•Put a gateway feature at the entrance especially if it's a difficult trail so newbs don't stumble on it and get hurt, also to keep traffic down. I've seen all manner of clever entrances. I like the step-up over a shrub barrier, the creek entrance (hides the scent too!) and the drop/roll in off a solid rock area so there's no obvious entrance tracks.
This is pretty much the exact kind of advice that I needed. We are going to work on it tomorrow and mentioning not building stuff super tight is a good point considering how our trail is taking shape (very sharp corners). I’ll tell all of this to the guys. Thank you.
Also reading my username back makes me realize I should probably change it lol
Cheers! Keeping in mind that advice hinges on the first line...
I didn't read Seymour till after I'd written it.
I personally wouldn't touch the local mountains on my own with a ten foot pole. I've schlepped rocks for authorized builders on The Shore at their specific direction and that's about it. My trail building has all been in another area all together that is less sensitive and under the microscope.
First rule of fight club is you don't talk about fight club...
I'm sure Jerry could use some help, he has a lot of good experience, maybe send him a DM.
I build on Cypress with a few other veterans and we are always willing to impart some knowledge. Trail days happen the last Sunday of every month (generally), check the NSMBA events calendar to register. https://nsmba.ca/events/
Lots of good advice in this thread. IMHO the best place to start is getting connected with your local trail org and maybe an experienced build to get some insight into the process of building, including getting landowner and/or trail org permission. Knowing where it's okay to build and where not is hugely important, especially if you don't want your hard work ripped out one day.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that a trail build is a lifelong commitment and if you can no longer maintain it then you either need to hand it off to someone who can or decommission it and leave the forest safe for everyone and everything else that may travel through there.
In terms of what I feel is the biggest mistake that still gets made these days is that corners are often made way too tight. Whenever there is a change in direction or elevation on the trail consider what's happening 50m before that and 50m after, ie how much speed are people coming into a specific section with. The primary reason corners and corner entrances get blown out is that people come into them with way too much speed and are hard on the brakes or doing cutties to be able to get through the corner. After that, controlling water flow is the next big thing that needs improvement, and that can involve a large amount of factors to consider.
Posted by: syncro
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that a trail is a lifelong commitment
^^
Also, it's too bad partbreaker isn't around anymore, he could show you how to take it big.
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