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RIP - Natural High

Feb. 6, 2015, 8:35 a.m.
Posts: 46
Joined: June 5, 2014

I hope the road will be widened or there will be a separate path for people riding up to the parking lot.

I'd hate to see a conflict created here between cars and self propelled users such as hikers, dog walkers and bikers.

Hopefully bikers won't start attacking cars as they are racing up the road.

Feb. 6, 2015, 9:38 a.m.
Posts: 1885
Joined: Oct. 16, 2005

The parking lot might not suit riders here, but I bet there's many a parent who's happy not to have to hump their kids up mtn hwy at the start of the ride, or ride down mtn hwy afterwards. For some dog owners as well, avoiding mtn hwy could be nice.

Exactly. It opens up Fromme to non-mountain bikers and non-residents (who can currently only park near the Braemar trail heads, which are a steep barrier for many people to enjoy the mountain).

I predict within the next ~10 years every road in North Vancouver that isn't a major thorough fair (Lonsdale, Marine Drive, etc) with controlled crossings and separated bike lane options will have speed humps on it. Drivers simply take too many risks around pedestrian crossings, drive too fast on side streets (and drive too fast in general), are too distracted, and lack respect for the neighbourhoods they are passing through. East 17th from Grand to Lonsdale is a good example of where I think things are going.

Does anyone not see the next round of Mountain Biker // Resident conflict on Fromme coming from a few asshole riders -- obvious from the bikes on their vehicle racks -- ripping up Mountain Hwy to the new parking lot?

I would love to see the DNV have the foresight put in speed control -- at least four way stops at every//every-other road crossing after Mtn Hwy @ Lynn Valley Road and speed humps above the McNair intersection -- before I have to read about new round of jerks making us all look bad.

Mean People SUCK! Nice People SHOVEL!

Trails For All; Trails For Weather

Feb. 6, 2015, 10:03 a.m.
Posts: 1029
Joined: Feb. 12, 2009

Does anyone not see the next round of Mountain Biker // Resident conflict on Fromme coming from a few asshole riders -- obvious from the bikes on their vehicle racks -- ripping up Mountain Hwy to the new parking lot?

I would love to see the DNV have the foresight put in speed control -- at least four way stops at every//every-other road crossing after Mtn Hwy @ Lynn Valley Road and speed humps above the McNair intersection -- before I have to read about new round of jerks making us all look bad.

People already rip up and down, the residents on the side streets are some of the worst.

Feb. 6, 2015, 10:25 a.m.
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sept. 30, 2006

I hope the road will be widened or there will be a separate path for people riding up to the parking lot.

I'd hate to see a conflict created here between cars and self propelled users such as hikers, dog walkers and bikers.

Hopefully bikers won't start attacking cars as they are racing up the road.

Im hoping this wont be an issue as well. When I first heard about the parking lot, I told myself id still be riding up. At first I didnt really think about how many cars are going to be dusting me on Mtn Highway as I do the climb up, but it doesnt sound very appealing. Parking lot it is I guess….

Feb. 6, 2015, 10:50 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Feb. 4, 2015

I see nothing but trouble coming with that parking lot. This thread started off lamenting the loss of a great trail, and that was my real point. The DNV is going to continue to chip away until there are no difficult trails left on Fromme. I heard a rumour that the District had secured a grant to clear a fire break across the front side of Fromme. If that's true, the DNV will be messing with all of the lower trails. That's the only area left with any concentration of difficult trails.

But as for the parking lot, casual walkers and dog walkers are going to love it. No need to walk up from Dempsey just to start a walk. Now they can take Rover up for a run and a crap with much less effort. Imagine a nice summer weekend. The lot is full, cars are trying to get up the road because they don't know the lot is full, cars are trying to come down because they've discovered the lot full. Bikes are riding up. All on a road that's barely wide enough for 2 cars to pass. Solution will be more trees down, road widening, more character lost.

Also, parking is currently spread out. Most people park, ride up somewhere until they contact the access road, and then plan a ride that finishes somewhere near their car. But now, most of the cars will be parked in the same place, so most of the riders will be heading down the same trails to get back to the same spot! Baden Powell will funnel a lot of those riders back, and at peak times I could see it being one bike after another. I wonder how much the walkers will appreciate that?

One thing that I really don't understand in all this is why the DNV has chosen over the last 10 years or so to get so involved in managing the trails. A lot of other communities are completely hands off. They don't want the cost or the liability.

The parking lot has to be costing a good chunk of money, both to build and to maintain. The presence of DNV people up there is expensive. I don't remember trail maintenance on Fromme being a big election issue this past year. The District complains about a lack of money and a need to raise taxes. I can't imagine that non-bikers and people that live away from Fromme would see this as a good use of their tax dollars.

GET THE DNV OUT OF THE WOODS!!!

Feb. 6, 2015, 10:56 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Nov. 20, 2005

I have mixed feelings on the parking lot but I sprained my ankle pretty badly on Natural High, so I won't miss it…

Don't settle for anything less than brass nipples.

-sanrensho

Feb. 6, 2015, 10:57 a.m.
Posts: 133
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

THE SKY IS FALLING!

Feb. 6, 2015, 11:12 a.m.
Posts: 1
Joined: Sept. 20, 2006

I hardly think that a very expensive parking lot was DNV's solution to shutting down Natural High…

Feb. 6, 2015, 11:14 a.m.
Posts: 1885
Joined: Oct. 16, 2005

People already rip up and down, the residents on the side streets are some of the worst.

Oh absolutely, but the difference is there is nothing about those idiots that identifies their vehicles as belonging to a certain group

THE SKY IS FALLING!

There is nothing wrong with identifying concerns and suggesting solutions before they happen.

Riders are reasonably concerned about our image on Fromme already.

I hardly think that a very expensive parking lot was DNV's solution to shutting down Natural High…

Heh. Did someone really suggest that?!

Mean People SUCK! Nice People SHOVEL!

Trails For All; Trails For Weather

Feb. 6, 2015, 11:22 a.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

Imagine a nice summer weekend. The lot is full, cars are trying to get up the road because they don't know the lot is full, cars are trying to come down because they've discovered the lot full. Bikes are riding up. All on a road that's barely wide enough for 2 cars to pass.

Why ride up Mtn Hwy? Use the climbing access from Mountain View park.

Trailforks Ride Planner of route.

Feb. 6, 2015, 11:46 a.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

Parking lot it is I guess….

You and everyone else. Good luck finding a parking spot. But at least you can sit in your car with the engine idling and tunes blaring while waiting for one top open up. Good times, baby!

Feb. 6, 2015, 12:28 p.m.
Posts: 642
Joined: June 8, 2005

You and everyone else. Good luck finding a parking spot. But at least you can sit in your car with the engine idling and tunes blaring while waiting for one top open up. Good times, baby!

I can see the good and bad on the lot.

Yes, I also enjoyed NH, never did get the swivel teeter totter. I think if parking is once again allowed without restriction in conjunction with the parking lot it would work the best. Spread out the traffic (bike, hike, dog walkers …) so that no one area will get overly burdened by it.

Not certain on what if any change to parking restrictions, but to me that is key. Common sense is also key, no pedal to floor flying up Mtn Hwy trying to get a good spot, seems obvious but not likely what all will do.

I haven't been riding much on Fromme in the last year, but one thing that has stood out to me as I have been either starting or finishing a ride or riding up Mtn Hwy, it that every time I have seen a vehicle travelling at what seems to be as too fast, there has been no bike on it. So much for the tell-tale signs of the obnoxious and ill-behaved.

Feb. 6, 2015, 12:38 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Feb. 4, 2015

I certainly wasn't suggesting that the parking lot was built for the purpose of removing half of Natural High. My concern is that the destruction of more difficult trails and stunts seems to have become acceptable "collateral damage". When those stunts/trails get taken down/decommissioned, they don't get rebuilt.

If you like to ride difficult stuff, or even if you aspire to ride it some day, then we should be concerned now. When its gone, its gone.

Feb. 6, 2015, 2:40 p.m.
Posts: 221
Joined: July 4, 2010

I certainly wasn't suggesting that the parking lot was built for the purpose of removing half of Natural High. My concern is that the destruction of more difficult trails and stunts seems to have become acceptable "collateral damage". When those stunts/trails get taken down/decommissioned, they don't get rebuilt.

If you like to ride difficult stuff, or even if you aspire to ride it some day, then we should be concerned now. When its gone, its gone.

I love, love LOVE all the new trail work; at the same time, just when I could ride harder things (swivel teeter, old exit from BP to mountain highway, etc) they get taken out! The best thing about Natural High was that it had options, the "stunt" and the ride-around route. I hope we can keep the challenging bits (i.e. rock rolls on Expresso) along with the easier routes. We loved taking visitors (hiking on biking trails (!)) to see the stunts on NH. Perhaps the swivel can be reborn elsewhere?

Feb. 6, 2015, 3:46 p.m.
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sept. 30, 2006

Why ride up Mtn Hwy? Use the climbing access from Mountain View park.

Trailforks Ride Planner of route.

This is a good point, I have always used the highway just based upon where we normally park and depending on what loop we are doing. If we park on Dempsey to do a loop from there, it didnt make much sense to ride to the start of the climb trail to get up to the trails as it was shorter to just go straight up the road. It might make more sense now however.

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