Executioner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sONfxPCTU0

I hear trail building is good for that…

:)

True, but then there's all the negativity from a few board members after the good work has been done. It seems like you have to justify what you do time after time here. Some people just don't get it and it gets frustrating. It's really too bad as we all want to keep biking alive and well.

I actually woke up in the night thinking about this.

At some point, the "old school" needs to realize that times are changing. Yes, trail building styles and techniques have changed but also the land managers attitude of "out of sight out of mind" is gone. If mountain biking is to continue to grow, trails need to be constructed in a more sustainable way for the massively increased ridership. It simply isn't as it used to be. TAP has found a way to have the trails accepted by the land managers and judging by the trail day turnouts, the majority of the riding public as well. No they aren't going to build you an eroded ribbon of chunder you can pick your way down, because it's not sustainable for mass traffic and the majority of riders (other than a few grumpy old men here) aren't interested in it either.

Times have changed, we aren't riding on our own land. A choice group of builders have found a way to get more people involved in trail work and have the land managers acceptance. There is no downside to this and it's the biggest advance I've seen in North Shore trail advocacy in recent years.

I actually work up in the night thinking about this.

At some point, the "old school" needs to realize that times are changing. Yes, trail building styles and techniques have changed but also the land managers attitude of "out of sight out of mind" is gone. If mountain biking is to continue to grow, trails need to be constructed in a more sustainable way for the massively increased ridership. It simply isn't as it used to be. TAP has found a way to have the trails accepted by the land managers and judging by the trail day turnouts, the majority of the riding public as well. No they aren't going to build you an eroded ribbon of chunder you can pick your way down, because it's not sustainable for mass traffic and the majority of riders (other than a few grumpy old men here) aren't interested in it either.

Times have changed, we aren't riding on our own land. A choice group of builders have found a way to get more people involved in trail work and have the land managers acceptance. There is no downside to this and it's the biggest advance I've seen in North Shore trail advocacy in recent years.

read this again.

Well said that man.

There is something to be said for being happy with your lot. Some people ride without a mountain in sight.

Dave nailed it

Digger says thanks DaveM.

I've never actually considered myself as an "old school" rider having spent a mere 5 years riding the Shore but maybe I am - I certainly fall into the 'Grumpy Old Man' age category. I grew up riding rough mountain trails in the English Lake District, super-soggy North Wales and the un-tracked Scottish Highlands.

I moved to Vancouver because the trails were challenging.

DaveM makes an excellent point but is effectively saying that the 'Golden Age' of the Shore has now passed and 'our' trails will be an indentikit of those elsewhere. Many of the posters here have denied the trails are being 'dumbed' down - but DaveM is pointing out the obvious…which is kinda sad:

TAP is building trails for the lowest common denominator because that's what is acceptable to the land managers.

Flame On…

I've never actually considered myself as an "old school" rider having spent a mere 5 years riding the Shore but maybe I am - I certainly fall into the 'Grumpy Old Man' age category. I grew up riding rough mountain trails in the English Lake District, super-soggy North Wales and the un-tracked Scottish Highlands.

I moved to Vancouver because the trails were challenging.

DaveM makes an excellent point but is effectively saying that the 'Golden Age' of the Shore has now passed and 'our' trails will be an indentikit of those elsewhere. Many of the posters here have denied the trails are being 'dumbed' down - but DaveM is pointing out the obvious…which is kinda sad:

TAP is building trails for the lowest common denominator because that's what is acceptable to the land managers.

Flame On…

5 years…hmmm has most of that riding all been on the mapped legit trails?

The Golden Age of the Shore isn't chunder blown out trails. The Golden Age (in my opinion) is the fresh loamie trails. Riding on top of the duff. The new sustainable trails build with gold dirt is the closest we'll get to legitimizing the riding experience of loamies.

DaveM makes an excellent point but is effectively saying that the 'Golden Age' of the Shore has now passed and 'our' trails will be an indentikit of those elsewhere. Many of the posters here have denied the trails are being 'dumbed' down - but DaveM is pointing out the obvious…which is kinda sad:

TAP is building trails for the lowest common denominator because that's what is acceptable to the land managers.

Flame On…

The so called "Golden Age" has likely passed on the more popular trails that are being targeted to direct the larger mass of traffic to. Although like Shirk said, the real golden age was 10 years previous to the rut they've become. There's still plenty of old school out there, and those trails will likely get even less traffic now so you can enjoy riding that drainage ditch for even more years to come.

Make this choice for me, build to please the land managers (and majority of ridership) on a select few trails or face increased opposition to any building or even riding in the area. What's your choice? "Our trails" are built on someone else's land. It's a privilege not a right, some people just can't seem to understand that.

_"The Golden Age (in my opinion) is the fresh loamie trails.__"

_Interesting take on that but that's not the image the rest of the world has of the Shore. Take a look at Sterling's photos - they epitomize the Shore for many many riders…not saying that is correct or accurate but just saying. Hell, wasn't your photo on Singeltrack magazine riding down some typical shore trail?? :rocker:

_"The Golden Age (in my opinion) is the fresh loamie trails.__"

_Interesting take on that but that's not the image the rest of the world has of the Shore. Take a look at Sterling's photos - they epitomize the Shore for many many riders…not saying that is correct or accurate but just saying. Hell, wasn't your photo on Singeltrack magazine riding down some typical shore trail?? :rocker:

so the trails need to remain in the image that the world has, regardless of that perception on actual reality? uhhh, yeah, sure. again, just cause you can ride an eroded mess of roots and rocks doesn't mean the trail should remain in that condition. I'm much more concerned about the local non-riding public and governments perception of trail conditions on the shore, and maintaining them to accepted standards enhances our image in the non-riding community, that's more important than the world mtb perception of what shore trails "should be like". Try working on the advocacy side of mtb trails for a few years and maybe your perceptions may change, although probably not from the sound of it.

_"The Golden Age (in my opinion) is the fresh loamie trails.__"

_Interesting take on that but that's not the image the rest of the world has of the Shore. Take a look at Sterling's photos - they epitomize the Shore for many many riders…not saying that is correct or accurate but just saying. Hell, wasn't your photo on Singeltrack magazine riding down some typical shore trail?? :rocker:

I can show you ten such similar spots that are on old school hidden trails. The trail linking up these one off "root tech" sections are smooth loamy goodness. The trail linking these "classic Shore" sections has more in common with new work on Executioner (in riding experience not visual) than it does with blown out trail.

Photo's are all staged, it's all about optics. One of the other covers I have on Singletrack (issue #62) isn't even a trail. It's a rock feature we found off a trail in Washington. Climb up shoot it and it looks like some gnar tech move, when it's just a slab of rock off to the side of the actual trail. The actual trail was mega fun wide fast and flowy. What get's ridden and what gets photo'd are sometimes two different things.

So.. after all this drama.. any trail porn of said trail?