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Cypress Trail Plan

Nov. 14, 2015, 7:11 a.m.
Posts: 29
Joined: July 16, 2007

Dear mountain bikers and builders who use the trails on Cypress,

West Vancouver is now starting to form a land-use plan for the lands surrounding Cypress. This process is going to take a while, but it is going to happen and the trails and how they are built and maintained is going to change. With the ongoing development of the British Properties, the trail system as we know now, will start to disappear.

Fortunately, West Vancouver Council is concerned with hearing from all user groups of the Upper Lands on Cypress. This includes the mountain bikers and trail builders. I have been involved in this process for a couple years now, and although I prefer to remain somewhat under the radar as a trail builder, we as a user group have a legitimate voice in this process and I have been invited to attend the workshops that are being held in the next couple weeks on behalf of the trail builders.

The following is an excerpt from a letter from West Van to user groups:

“In 2016, the District of West Vancouver will be developing a Trails Plan for trails on public land.
West Vancouver has over 150 km of trails, which are accessed by a variety of users.
A Trails Plan will help articulate why trails and trail opportunities are important to residents of
West Vancouver; and provide best practices for trail development, use, management, and
maintenance. The plan will respect the needs of different users and balance recreational uses
with the community’s environmental and cultural values.”

“At this stage, we are doing our research and reaching out to stakeholders so we have a good
handle on the facts about West Vancouver’s trail system in advance of the 2016 process. This
informal discussion will explore what you like about trails system in the District of West
Vancouver, what are the areas for improvement, and other topics that may be brought forward
by the community about trails.”

Please feel free to send me a PM with concerns or comments that you have for the District of West Vancouver.

From a fellow rider, Carolyn Kavanagh

Nov. 14, 2015, 7:37 a.m.
Posts: 1584
Joined: June 20, 2003

Thanks for doing this!!

Nov. 14, 2015, 9:18 a.m.
Posts: 1063
Joined: May 4, 2006

FFS, and absolutely no disrespect to the OP, but how many f++king meeting do DWV have to have before the can make any decisions???

Whilst it's welcome that they actually seek the public's input, don't they have all of this information already, from the countless other meetings and workshops that have taken place over the last six+ years? (AlanB can correct me on that)

DWV: just f++king pull your fingers out of your collective asses and get on with it!

Anyway, rant over….
Good luck and thanks Carolyn

Nov. 14, 2015, 2:50 p.m.
Posts: 711
Joined: Aug. 10, 2010

FFS, and absolutely no disrespect to the OP, but how many f++king meeting do DWV have to have before the can make any decisions???

Whilst it's welcome that they actually seek the public's input, don't they have all of this information already, from the countless other meetings and workshops that have taken place over the last six+ years? (AlanB can correct me on that)

DWV: just f++king pull your fingers out of your collective asses and get on with it!

Anyway, rant over….

Good luck and thanks Carolyn

Municipal life, that's what that is hours of indecision hoping to build a consensus whilst covering you ass.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Shredding hypothetical gnarr

Nov. 14, 2015, 5:57 p.m.
Posts: 1200
Joined: Dec. 3, 2003

Municipal life, that's what that is hours of indecision hoping to build a consensus whilst covering you ass.

This, to a certain degree.

Making policy takes time. You want to get it right, which involves talking to people, listening to concerns and striking a balance that the majority consider fair. This can't be rushed and it's never finished.

Establishing a balance of meeting recreational needs and protecting the environment is a dynamic that constantly shifts and adjusts as factors change, be it increased recreational use, new invasive species, climate change or extreme stilt walking.

Whilst it's welcome that they actually seek the public's input, don't they have all of this information already, from the countless other meetings and workshops that have taken place over the last six+ years?

In this case, no, they don't have the information needed for a Trails Plan. Even if DWV magically had all the trail corridors (and liability) dumped in their lap, they wouldn't be able to do a thing with them because they have no policies or procedures to manage the trails and work with volunteer organizations on their maintenance.

The good news is that there are practical examples of how to manage trails with our neighbour to the east, DNV. Most of what's needed can be cribbed from them. That said, DWV still wants to talk to ALL trail users and ensure that their concerns are met while protecting the ecological integrity of the mountainside. This will take place in 2016.

The main difference in West Van is that the majority of bike trails are on private land. DWV can only manage trails on public land. The future of trails on BPP land depends on the planning for Cypress Village, expected to kick-off in 2016.

Nov. 14, 2015, 6:32 p.m.
Posts: 1200
Joined: Dec. 3, 2003

Dear mountain bikers and builders who use the trails on Cypress,

West Vancouver is now starting to form a land-use plan for the lands surrounding Cypress. This process is going to take a while, but it is going to happen and the trails and how they are built and maintained is going to change. With the ongoing development of the British Pacific Properties, the trail system as we know now, will start to disappear.

Fortunately, West Vancouver Council is concerned with hearing from all user groups of the Upper Lands on Cypress. This includes the mountain bikers and trail builders. I have been involved in this process for a couple years now, and although I prefer to remain somewhat under the radar as a trail builder, we as a user group have a legitimate voice in this process and I have been invited to attend the workshops that are being held in the next couple weeks on behalf of the trail builders.

Thanks for stepping up and being a voice for the trail builders, Carolyn. I'm so glad you're involved.

There are 2 points for the TL;DR crowd.

1) This is a pre-Trails Plan exercise to find out what's important to ALL trail users. No decisions will made. Full public input will happen in 2016.

2) This only covers trails on public land. What happens to trails on private land will depend on the land owner. While it is possible that trail corridors will end up in the public domain, that is outside the scope of a Trails Plan. Trails above and below the 1200' contour are expected to be in scope for the Cypress Village planning process that should start in 2016.

Nov. 14, 2015, 7:56 p.m.
Posts: 123
Joined: May 13, 2014

Personally, this is placating the masses while covering the fact that the reality is this: ALL of Cypress will be developed, in privately owned hands. If you think private developers care one whit about bikers on the most expensive real estate in Canada…you are dreaming. I am all for bikers and advocacy, but to me, with BBP owning most of the land it is not a matter of IF they are going to develop but WHEN. And the idea of limiting development to a "1700" foot ceiling? Get real. They are going to develop right up to where the land ownership ends. Count on it. All of this political BS is to give the appearance of "we tried to do our best to save what we can" but in the end it only matters this: is the land privately owned, and what it is the value. Cherish Cypress as you see it today. It will not last or go on. With all the money flooding in from China all of Cypress will be developed to its fullest: capitalism at its best. Fulfilling demand, they will say.

I don't think Cypress has any future, and not that I like it, but I cannot afford to purchase the land to preserve trails, and those whom own the land honestly don't care. And don't think the municipality cares either. It is simply semantic at this point.

I wish I could do something about it, but the fact is: we are being sold out and bought out. There will be no legacy in any Cypress trail as in some future it will eventually be someone's backyard, of whom most likely will not live here or reside here. Certainly not ride here, for sure.

Nov. 15, 2015, 9:12 a.m.
Posts: 1063
Joined: May 4, 2006

Making policy takes time. You want to get it right, which involves talking to people, listening to concerns and striking a balance that the majority consider fair. This can't be rushed and it's never finished.

Where there's a will, there's a way…

DWV leadership and the recreation dept have known this was coming for many years.

Just sayin'….

Nov. 15, 2015, 5:27 p.m.
Posts: 1200
Joined: Dec. 3, 2003

Where there's a will, there's a way…

There's a will within Parks to make this happen, plus an Upper Lands Working Group recommendation to prioritize developing a Trails Plan. This is moving forward.

Personally, this is placating the masses while covering the fact that the reality is this: ALL of Cypress will be developed, in privately owned hands. If you think private developers care one whit about bikers on the most expensive real estate in Canada…you are dreaming.

You're correct that we won't know for sure what the future holds for Cypress trails until the shovels start digging, but there's a number of reasons to be optimistic about the future.

First off, there's no way that all of Cypress will be developed. Look at the Rodgers Creek development where more than 50% of the land is left as greenspace. Then there's the 1200' restriction on residential development. The public support for a variation to the 1200' restriction was zero. A move to allow development any higher would face stiff public opposition.

Remember, Cypress Village will need customers. Mtn bikers are a natural, high-value target market, especially as climate change puts local ski areas at risk. Look how crowded the new parking lot on Fromme is!

BPP is already targeting bikers, both with their sponsorship of the Rotary Ride for Rescue Hill Climb and with comments in the Globe and Mail article where they say they want “good restaurants and pubs for mountain bikers”.

Nov. 15, 2015, 5:55 p.m.
Posts: 123
Joined: May 13, 2014

AlanB: I wish I had your optimism, but I tend to be realistic.

We can do all we want with Municipal governments, but so long as money rules the world, you have to see that in every equation.

Enjoy Cypress as it is. I went down Sex Boy about 8 months ago and saw the development markers and had my heart broken. Once it is there, there is no saving it.

And with private development, save your breath. Go to where it cannot matter because, as it is always said, the bottom line is money. And I cannot buy Sex Boy. Or Sex Girl. Or Cherry Bomb. Or Roach Hit, or Roach Clip. Or the Fourth Horseman. Can you? Or anyone ? I learned long ago to pick your battles, and the ones you can at least have a hope of winning. With the influx of dirty Chinese money, we all have no hope.

And don't think any Municipal council has any backbone about this. Sad but true.

I can't imagine whole neighbourhoods of vacant owners with no community involvement but that seems to be okay with what is going on. Maybe it is time for better Municipal, Provincial and Federal Government to do something. Oh, I forgot, the money part. So long as I am dreaming, I would like to be 20 years younger, too.

Nov. 15, 2015, 6:34 p.m.
Posts: 1200
Joined: Dec. 3, 2003

I do have hope. Realistic, economically-based hope.

Money may rule the world, but there's a role for the money of mtn bikers at Cypress Village. Just look at Whistler, where mtn biking is an economic juggernaut!

The biking at Cypress is going to change, there's no doubt about that. Enjoy the gnar that makes it so special today, but don't underestimate the future. The potential is enormous!

Nov. 16, 2015, 8:11 a.m.
Posts: 5487
Joined: April 10, 2005

I agree with Blackfly. Money is the bottom line [HTML_REMOVED] if you think deep down that BPP cares about bikers you are kidding yourself. It's unfortunate, but true. Let us hope for the best [HTML_REMOVED] prepare for the worst.

Nov. 16, 2015, 1:08 p.m.
Posts: 711
Joined: Aug. 10, 2010

This, to a certain degree.

Making policy takes time. You want to get it right, which involves talking to people, listening to concerns and striking a balance that the majority consider fair. This can't be rushed and it's never finished.

Establishing a balance of meeting recreational needs and protecting the environment is a dynamic that constantly shifts and adjusts as factors change, be it increased recreational use, new invasive species, climate change or extreme stilt walking.

Good to hear sounds like they are trying to do their best

Shredding hypothetical gnarr

Nov. 17, 2015, 7:52 a.m.
Posts: 29
Joined: July 16, 2007

For those not familiar with the property ownership of the Upper Lands, check out this map. Development above 1200 feet is one of the key issues in the development plan.

http://westvancouver.ca/sites/default/files/dwv/assets/gov/docs/Committees-Groups/working-groups/upper-lands/2014/Map%201%20Property%20Ownership%20%26%20Trails.pdf

Nov. 17, 2015, 8:05 a.m.
Posts: 17760
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Its great to see someone else stepping up to the plate to help Carolyn! Very refreshing.

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