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Cypress 2014 Conditions

Jan. 30, 2014, 8:09 a.m.
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Joined: March 7, 2012

and thanks Allan B for your efforts and time!!!

Jan. 30, 2014, 8:14 a.m.
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Joined: March 7, 2012

Here are my notes from the NSMBA AGM that I sent out to members of my Meet Up group.

Facts:

We ride bikes on other people’s properties.

Therefore it is a privilege.

We are not the only users of the forest.

Once a trail goes in the forest is never the same.

Old school trails are being addressed for erosion and water pooling that causes erosion.

All these structures that went in 15 years ago are all rotting now. Cedar good, Hemlock bad.

NSMBA has limited resources as to what to address.

Therefore the trails they are addressing now to standards of modern building will keep the trail water shedding for years to come.

People should not expect new trails if we cannot maintain the ones we have now.

Then, over time, the harder trails will be addressed to the Whistler and IMBA trail building standards.

The black diamond for a built structure then is no more than 10ft for instance.

This is the business case for trail days for the landowners: Volunteers, if they were paid $16.50 and hour for all the work they do on the trails per year give the landowners cumatively $150k + per year of free labour- getting trails to the point where they do not erode down to hard pan or rooty hell.

The more trail day volunteers there are the more this number goes up which encourages more cooperation with the land owners.

The NSMBA has a professional program director now, paid, and he is a hell of a guy, wow he impressed me, he has been there now for the last two years and has made this org turn around from the dark days of the past, which I heard about. It was impressive hearing his report and how all aspects of what they are doing at NSMBA is trickling all thorough BC and Washington and onto the Island. And the NSMBA is leading the new model of trail building.

Cypress:

Landowner does not want new trails.

Landowner accepts that existing trails need work for longevity and anti erosion.

Never Neverland builders took out a big kicker to table top wood structure and replaced it lower jump with a table and Landowner still did not like it.

Landowner does not want new structures or any structures. Therefore keep it on the ground is the best policy to keep biking and the work the NSMBA is doing with landowner and WestVan Muncip moving forward- this was tacitly said to any Cypress builders that would have been in the room…

Landowner has informed in the New Year they will be going in and taking some structures down- likely only on Never Neverland.

The whole west slope of Cypress to past Horseshoe Bay is under a resource assessment and the NSMBA are in there with the dialogue. The current relations with Metro, NV District of NV and BC Parks is assisting this. It is a process but we need to respect it. That was the message for Cypress.

Fromme:

They are putting in an up only climbing trail near Mountain View Park that might use part of Dreamweaver Bobsled will be the first beginner trail to accept multiwheel chairs. This is a first in the world. Fromme is getting lots of attention on making the trails last. Lots of other stuff on Fromme happening to make the trails withstand the traffic. This is the future.

Seymour:

Metro took out Aftertaste. It was actually Metro that wanted to put in a climbing trail and to do a bunch of work in that area and High School League and what not to address other issues of terrible erosion. Metro paid for that trail! Metro gave Digger their Fire Crew to build it with others from the Builders Academy. So, this is an example of the cooperation working The last legal trail was built in 2008-9 on the North Shore.

This is the future. There is no stopping it since this in the only way the landowners will allow bikes on their land now. Organic loam trails are the risk to throw all this political and partnership work away. It is great until the loam trails are “discovered by many” and then all goes in, like Hangman 2 and it gets ridden out. Like Sterling. Then, the loam in the wet turns to mud and you get the start of the trail going south.

Did you know BCParks manages the Dark Side? Did you know that their land management strategy for that area was written in 1971? There was talk that there will be biking on the Dark Side in the future within our lifetime. BC Parks is seeing that they cannot stop it. In fact, NSMBA went in there and took out some structures that some builder had just put in. In order to ride we need to respect the land and the process of addressing new trails.

NSMBA are against the loamers their stance is what right do you have to go in and cut a new trail the forest is a shared resource. So, it was an interesting education for me to listen to all this and it does change how I see our time in the woods.

In closing, support the NSMBA, become a member, help educate, be respectful. It is clear the landowners in most cases will tolerate biking, but it is a process now.

Jan. 30, 2014, 9:25 a.m.
Posts: 1143
Joined: March 15, 2013

It seems as if the most vocal group on NSMB likes skinny-old-school-illegal-erosion-prone-gnarliness and will likely look at that list like it was written by the anti-christ… but everything on that list looks pretty reasonable to me.

I'd rather have SOME trails to ride than NO trails to ride, even if they aren't exactly the type of trails I'd most prefer to be riding.

Jan. 30, 2014, 9:57 a.m.
Posts: 3254
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

The NSMBA has a professional program director now, paid, and he is a hell of a guy, wow he impressed me, he has been there now for the last two years and has made this org turn around from the dark days of the past, which I heard about. It was impressive hearing his report and how all aspects of what they are doing at NSMBA is trickling all thorough BC and Washington and onto the Island. And the NSMBA is leading the new model of trail building.

while most of what you said is accurate this bit is not. yes there were some dark days for the nsmba, worse than some may know, but it's not like mark wood came in a waved a magic wand and all was good. yes he's done some great work, but there were people before him who did some excellent work in the face of greater adversity and laid the groundwork for some of the sucess the nsmba is reaping know. these people should not be forgotten nor tossed aside like their efforts weren't as valauble.

it's not fair, is disrespectful and i won't allow it to pass.

for example sharon and lee are two people that we simply can't thank enough, with sharon in particular doing the work nobody else wanted to do and putting in way more hours as an unpaid volunteer than any person has a right too. there are lots of other names as well of people who have made valuable contributions, let's make sure they're recognized.

ps - the nsmaba website's about page used to show a much better history of the org and listed all the current and past directors. that info is now gone and it would be nice to see it up again so those new to the org can get a sense of the past and what helped build the nsmba.

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

Jan. 30, 2014, 10:01 a.m.
Posts: 3254
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Seymour:

The last legal trail was built in 2008-9 on the North Shore.

that should actually read 04-06. i totally blanked on the dates at the mtg when asked.

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

Jan. 30, 2014, 10:13 a.m.
Posts: 351
Joined: March 4, 2013

have to agree with syncro (for once). the NSMBA's success is built on years of hard work by many volunteers. you don't get to where the NSMBA is today in 2 years. it takes years to build up an effective organization with volunteers and one that commands respect and trust from local land managers. this doesn't happen overnight.

i don't know exactly what 'dark days' is meant to refer to. the organization has grown over the years but has always had shovels on the ground and maintained relationships with landowners.

maybe i am being overly sensitive but I have heard or read these types of comments in other places, and to me they are disrespectful.

Jan. 30, 2014, 10:15 a.m.
Posts: 8935
Joined: Dec. 23, 2005

there were some dark days for the nsmba, worse than some may know

I'd say the reference to dark times is when it was just Matthew. At one point pretty much everyone walked away from taking on any responsibility as a director and Matthew was left holding the bag. Those were the darkest of days for the NSMBA as an organization not necessarily the trails.

I didn't read it as any disrespect for the past NSMBA contributors.

Also note taken on the history on the website. We do have all the old trail write ups archived and would like to get them up online along with more history stuff.

Jan. 30, 2014, 10:24 a.m.
Posts: 351
Joined: March 4, 2013

as for Cypress … let's be honest with each other.

the builders have not been restraining themselves, as requested by BPP. pretty sure it's that simple. it's human nature to try to push things but BPP is not taking any of that.

unfortunately round #2 of Cypress free-for-all building is coming to a close (round #1 being pre-chainsaw massacre).

i feel bad for the current builders as I was part of the new-school building on cypress that started in around 2006/2007. unfortunately times have changed yet again, and you don't really have much choice but to follow the rules or move off the shore.

BPP has the resources and the feet on the ground to find new trails/structures and deal with them. time to stop trying to get away from bending the rules.

Jan. 30, 2014, 11:41 a.m.
Posts: 8552
Joined: Nov. 15, 2002

My thoughts exactly. Praising Mark does no disservice to those who came before. While you are correct Sync that others laid a foundation and kept mountain bikers in the conversation (and indeed the days were dark), the system of public trail days run by the NSMBA wasn't even close to being adequate or sustainable. With all the work to do putting out fires with volunteer hours there was no time to envision getting to the next level. With TAP Mark has provided that vision and I don't think it's an understatement to say we are in a vastly better place than we've ever been in terms of access, collaboration with landowners and above all trail condition.

I'd say the reference tol dark times is when it was just Matthew. At one point pretty much everyone walked away from taking on any responsibility as a director and Matthew was left holding the bag. Those were the darkest of days for the NSMBA as an organization not necessarily the trails.

I didn't read it as any disrespect for the past NSMBA contributors.

Also note taken on the history on the website. We do have all the old trail write ups archived and would like to get them up online along with more history stuff.

Jan. 30, 2014, 12:35 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: March 7, 2012

Peeps:

Synchro- it was my first NSMBA AGM. I know no past… Do not be insulted by what I wrote as I did not intend to slag anything, anyone.

Facts correction fine, I was writing those notes from memory after the meeting.

So take a chill pill- I am without the history you know of…. My message mainly in the post was how future trail management will be a shared responsibility ALL of us are a part of.

The dark days reference was indeed when only Mathew was around- and in the meeting it was described "dark days"

So all get past being so sensitive about my "notes" from a newbie at the NSMBA- a proud bro card holder and trail supporter- stickers on my car

Jan. 30, 2014, 2:03 p.m.
Posts: 3254
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Peeps:

Synchro- it was my first NSMBA AGM. I know no past… Do not be insulted by what I wrote as I did not intend to slag anything, anyone.

Facts correction fine, I was writing those notes from memory after the meeting.

So take a chill pill- I am without the history you know of…. My message mainly in the post was how future trail management will be a shared responsibility ALL of us are a part of.

The dark days reference was indeed when only Mathew was around- and in the meeting it was described "dark days"

So all get past being so sensitive about my "notes" from a newbie at the NSMBA- a proud bro card holder and trail supporter- stickers on my car

i don't need to take a chill pill and am not "so sensitive" as you suggest. i just feel it's important to make a note of the history for exactly the reason you stated - that you're without it, as are many others.

sorry if you got the impression i was ripping on you in particular, that wasn't the case.

and the fact correction was my error. you got the notes right, i gave the wrong dates at the meeting.

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

Jan. 30, 2014, 2:07 p.m.
Posts: 3254
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

My thoughts exactly. Praising Mark does no disservice to those who came before. While you are correct Sync that others laid a foundation and kept mountain bikers in the conversation (and indeed the days were dark), the system of public trail days run by the NSMBA wasn't even close to being adequate or sustainable. With all the work to do putting out fires with volunteer hours there was no time to envision getting to the next level. With TAP Mark has provided that vision and I don't think it's an understatement to say we are in a vastly better place than we've ever been in terms of access, collaboration with landowners and above all trail condition.

i don't disagree with you Cam, for the most part I feel Mr. Wood has done a great job and I have told him that even though I disagree with some things. i also agree that the community is in a better place as well thanks in large part to those who are involved. but that also makes me wonder how much of the sucess over the past few years is due to mtb'ing reaching that critical mass where there finally are enough people involved to make things run smoothly. as noted, the dark days weren't due to a lack of vision or ideas, but simply not having the people available to make it all happen.

i just want to ensure that those who laid the foundation are not forgotten in the blaze of new glory the nsmba is enjoying at the moment.

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

Jan. 30, 2014, 2:22 p.m.
Posts: 18888
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

i just want to ensure that those who laid foundation are not forgotten in the blaze of new glory the NSMBA is enjoying at the moment.

Some of us are still involved, and are still enjoying the glory.

The days of 1-2 people organizing 8 traildays with random work leadership and 40-200 random people showing up were indeed the dark days, and I'm very happy we've seen the light.

Jan. 30, 2014, 2:23 p.m.
Posts: 3254
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Some of us are still involved, and are still enjoying the glory.

The days of 1-2 people organizing 8 traildays with random work leadership and 40-200 random people showing up were indeed the dark days, and I'm very happy we've seen the light.

sorry, never heard of you.

:couple:

We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer

Jan. 30, 2014, 2:54 p.m.
Posts: 64
Joined: Aug. 6, 2004

Some of us are still involved, and are still enjoying the glory.

The days of 1-2 people organizing 8 traildays with random work leadership and 40-200 random people showing up were indeed the dark days, and I'm very happy we've seen the light.

Could not have said it better myself Sven!

Knowing that the TAP program got people like Peter M and Todd some cash compensation to build was enough for me to support it.

They deserve to be paid for the amazing work they do.

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